fits

Ok ,so, any one else trying this 14x14 cycle? or a variation?

I read about 'pulsing' before, Any one tried that ? I hard Sam MIGHT try another part to this on going experiment, maybe with Tbol, but obviously he is banned from here so im not sure where he will document it..............

Pscarb

any one mate, i dont see how guys can complain about the cost of getting bloods done to keep a track of their health but have no issue buying steroids....

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ONE SMART COOKIE

No problems Paul.

As to answer one of your other posts.

Fits pointed out not everyone has access to a doctor that will watch over them. So everything has to be done in such a way to *minimise* shutdown, suppression will happen to a degree but not complete shutdown as with *normal* suggested cycles.

As of yet I am unable to find any form of eveidence which pinpoints *exactly* at what dosage or time frame that the body will start to suppress hormonal releases when taking in steroids any form of steroid or steroid cycle.

People ridicule the low dose 14x14, 14x21, 16x21 but then go ahead and front load with loads of dbol and other drugs.. To me thats just double standards..

So it gets a little tiring when continually confronted with *blood tests blood tests* as nobody else who gives out cycle advice on this or any other forum is expected to. No matter what the dosage as it is just seen as falling into the *normal* way of doing things.

I`ve done this cycle in the past (late 1995, early 1996) and I have had 2 kids since then. I know the cycle(s) work. I`m still alive, I have kids, all my recent test results show that I now have the liver & kidney functions of a 16 year old (contrary to what some poeple post above my liver functions) and eveyrhting else is hunky dorey.

Sam69 has done this cycle and so have countless others in a number of formats.

So yeah I/we get defencive when the same old same old crap keeps reappearing by a select few with what now comes across as bitterness & sour grapes with ulterior motives.

Boring...

You try to help and give different viewpoints to only be shotdown for being willing to rock the conventional thinking boat..


Interesting.... And I can see where you are coming from..

Well I`m nothing like I *used* to look like, yet people still take advice of me, have my own forum, over 200 subscribers to my youtube stuff and heading towards half a million veiwings.

I must be doing something wrong....lol

Now your getting defensive, and you pull others down for that... Tut Tut..

So now we`ve switched from it causing shutdown to *depends from person to person*

And I bet those individuals have problems before they undertook steroid use?

Did they stick to the suggested dose of 5mgs per day?

Which is what we suggested to people starting out on this protocol..

I love the way people (anyone) fires into this protocol over taking 35mgs per week yet think noting of telling people to take that and more daily for a first cycle..

HYPOCRITES.................

I`m going to have to stop replying to all this as it is getting boring going round and round in circles..

Unless of course I see more input from other sources or requests to continue with my ramblings

The basic thing is guys,

Too many use drugs as a crutch, they poison their systems with too many supplements, too high an intake of protein and protein shakes, train with poor programs, train too often usually in an overly stimulated way. Are more often than not dehydrated, lacking in vital vitamins & minerals, yet massively over dosing on some forms of vits/mins. Have poor recovery habits, drink too much alcohol, take too many non steroidal drugs. Have never seen an active recovery program, wouldn`t touch a stretching program of any form, the list goes on & on.

Yet said same individuals, moan that they aint growing, knock me for *unconventional thinking, belittle a program as outlined in this MASSIVE thread.

And are quite willing to spends thousands each year on supplemnts,drugs, pumping Steroids, GH, IGF-1, Insulin DNP, epherdrine, T3, T4 and numerous other compounds that are around these days into their bodies all in a single cycle which people on here do and have done.With no scientific back up as to how these compounds are going to interact long term.

?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ????????????????????

Outspoken

Choice is yours............................................. .......................

And make sure to inform me why!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

fits

LOL

No ban!!!!!

Well, That was a good post OSC And although I don't think all the arguing is good for such an informative thread, the debating is good and that last post Cookie, was a very good one. To reinstate WHY this thread began, the whole purpose of the experiment that the now BANNED Sam69 very kindly recorded for us in his detailed journal.

It's a shame Biker is not about these days, but He had enough of the same old same old too.......So did Chef x. These people were very knowledgeable and willing to look at things like this as an alternative. I know Biker was very much into the 'usual' AAS cycles, he was THE man to talk to on this forum many moons ago, as well as two others I used to use. but He was willing to discuss and advise and help experiment with different protocols like this.


And I don't want to get in on the name calling or arguing, but these people woody are people that KNOW what they are talking about after years of using AAS. You have made some good changes to yourself woody but You may still run into some BIG problems health wise....I hope you don't.

14x14 and the like should be looked into more, as a safer way to help people reach their goals, goals that are be based on SOLID training, SOLID diet and SOLID rest, and just 'tweaked' with small dossed AAS if desired or needed. I think it is a totally different pursuit to professional Bodybuilding and should be treated with respect. I know many people on here like to use high doses of drugs, some need to as they get up on stage, no one will win the universe on a 5mg 14x14 cycle lol and that's all good for them IMO, but, totally different to what this journal is about. as some one already said, Horses for courses.

Sh*t I'm waffling now and not had my starbucks bucket of coffee yet! LoL

any way, Cookie, don't stop your rambling, the last one was good, a reminder as to what this journal is about, infact, personally I'd like to see this brought back to life with a new 6th of june................... that time is Nearly here again........PART 2??????????

Pscarb

yes i agree mate, as you know i have in the past used stupid amounts and never got tested that was a mistake on my part and now i check my health in many ways before and after every cycle what i fail to understand though is if you are going to use steroids then save the money and get the tests done as well.....

Could not agree more mate far to many newbies/novice gear users start these drugs far to early...

having an opinion will not get you banned mate

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wogihao

One thing cookie, if your so convinced that everyones going the wrong way with standard cycles at high dosages didnt you yourself use this aproach when you competed i seem to rember a post where you outlined your use of what 15 tabs of halo a day along with a bunch of other substances - how does this fit with your support of low dosages cycles?

I dont see how cycleing low dosages of dbol is any diffrent to how the york lifters used dbol in the 50s-early 60s? isnt this just a big step backwards?

I would think the danger is, this is the ultimate newbie cycle - no injections to worry about, a low dose with a easly avalible steriod. Not on this site but on some others this type of aproach is treated by the users in the same way as standard suplements. I think thats where people get uneasy. what would be the reaction if the drug of choice was not dbol but say anadrol/halo?? I think the reaction to the cycle would be very diffrent.

hackskii

I see it as if you are going to do a cycle then do one.
The 14 x 14 method does in fact shut you down and I know two people with blood work to prove their levels were that of a girl.
Oh, and what about compromised lipid profiles?
Yah, that too is verified along with very low testosterone levels.
You can defend all you want cookie, using the mantra of non conventional thinking but the proof is in the blood tests. It does shut you down, as verified with blood work.

If you understand what is going on you might just pick up on this.
First within days the hypothalamus will stop sending GnRH to the pituitary.
The pituitary will stop sending LH to the Leydig cells, and within days the nuts won’t produce testosterone.
So, you come OFF for your 2 weeks, and it takes about 2 weeks for the pituitary to start sending the hormone LH to the Leydig cells, but then you go back on, once back on the suppression becomes deeper and deeper.
You could literally be shutdown half the whole time you are on gear.
Estrogen is about 200 times more suppressive than testosterone and beings that d-bol is a heavily aromitizable steroid, the risk of suppression is large.
Within days shutdown starts to happen.
Using this for a prolonged period of time is not safer, and actually could become more problematic than just doing a 8 week cycle along with a PCT.

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Scott

thestudbeast

Did they run 5mg?
What was their previous cycle if any?

hackskii

One never ran a cycle before, I do think it was 5mg but it could have been 10mg.
He did get stronger, but he drew blood 3 days after last tab.
I work with him so let me just e-mail him then I can copy and paste here.

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Scott

thestudbeast

Ye go on, if it is the case this cycle should definatly be done with blood tests only, presuming he was all A OK before hand. Infact pulsing epistane is a better idea any how for avoiding total shutdown, as you've seen a 6 week pulse does compromise total testosterone slightly but the body compensates with higher free test.

fits

So Sam69 was lying? just lucky? and Jimmy and his mate? other people that have done this type of cycle??? YOU HAVE A WHOLE THREAD WITH EVIDANCE THAT YOU CAN DO THIS WITH GOOD RESULTS AND NO BAD SIDE EFFECTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Sam69 was not trying to SELL anything, it was an EXPERIMENT and these are his findings.....................

So why do you continue to talk like you KNOW what WILL happen????? State things as FACT??? what you are saying is theory, not FACT!!! or, your telling us that sam69 MUST have had more problems that he said he did???

The point of this whole thing is to try to find a SAFER way to use AAS. PCT is advised to be at hand. SMALL doses to be used. Specific AAS used..... that cannot be as dangerous as shoving **** loads of Test + GH + Dbol etc... SURELY????

Keep harping on about these "two people" you know that had bloods hack, and how 14x14 WILL f*ck you over.......because OBVIOUSLY what you say is 100% fact and 100% TRUE...... you are the all knowing GURU of AAS use....

wogihao

I have a question though, no-one is saying that 14x14 dosent supress or shut you down it seems.

However how effective is it long term? why would someone use this aproach over the standard one when you can get far better results from say a shic/burst cruse aproach? if the objective is to get as much mass/strenght as possible then why would you consider a sub-optimal aproach to mass gain?

I meen who realy considers this a viable long term aproach from what i can see it would take years and years to get to a compition standard if you were lucky.

So what are we saying that long term use of a low amount of steriods is better than short term high dosage use?

Pscarb

Fits you seem o be getting irrate for no reason wha hackskii has said is correc just as i mentioned before no one knows if they are shutdown unless they get bloods compleed, no one is saying sam is lying bu i was under he impression he never got bloods completed now i might be wrong and if he did and they proved he was not shu down i apologise but if he did not ge them completed then how can you tell he was not shut down??

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paulo

handbags ladies!!!, i quite like reading different ideas /opinions, as i didnt and wont compete ive dcided to stay on creatine and protein only as supplements along with hard training and plenty rest between sessions-ive recently made good gains strength wwise using this and am close to what i was doing 20yrs ago!,anyway i like o.s.c articles,re the minimum dose stuff thats like waht they did in the old days and they looked great.if was going to do nowadays i would get advice on pct first then do test only-with ancils recommended,but as my goals are different from others i try stick with present as seems to be working

ONE SMART COOKIE

Too much caffiene buddy, back into your kennel,

Thanks for the input