007

weeks 1-6 30-35 mgs dbol every day

couple off days after last dbol start pct.

nolva 20mgs ed for 30 days

clomid 50mgs ed for 30 days.

even better would be

weeks 1-12 500mgs test e every week.

same pct .

but as i said you are not ready for anabolics but you are going to do it any way so i will give you the best advise i can

dogs32

cheers mate..I will print that out..I take all advice seriously

cwoody123

Finally! people starting to talk sense on this post

Captain Hero

its a good post, it worked for Samurai and has worked for others too.

There is no need to trash a post just because it didnt work for you.

cwoody123

No mate it didn't work for me as i was probably the only one apart from Hacks mate to get there blood work done...guess what?...he was shut down hard too!

We really need to see some evidence that it does not shut you down...as stated before you can maintain sexual function even on relatively low T so you would not necessarily see that your shut down.

All i want to see is blood work and if it turns out that it does not shut people down then i will hold my hands up!


But i think it is a little irresponsible let people follow this protocol without knowing its effects...the evidence is already leaning towards the fact that it does not work.

ba baracuss

Have you looked into creatine, caffeine, ephedrine mate?

They should all help you get some more reps.

darkiwi

i recently done two 14/14 cycles at 10mg ED , i got water and a lil shut down nothing major though. plus my missis is f*cking hot so i had no truble geting it going

i think the 14/14 ect cycles are great to start on for a first timer i think most people starting off with d-bol ect should start on a small cycle get a feel for what it does to them. just my thoughts though

Jimmy

i wont comment on shutdown but i have a mate who has only ever followed this cycle

he loves it....gives him just enough to get where he wants to

horses for courses

fits

I think the point of this journal was to see what would happen, an experment, sam took the educated risk to test this theory and if you read it, it shows he he made about a stone of lean gains with no ill effects. Now you have a point about blood works etc and it would be good to see ,BUT, you cannot go about rubbishing this method just because it didnt work for you. From what i have readyou have had many problems!

People that train for a few months then start injecting 500mg test with Dbol etc thats dangerous and stupid. all the studies I have read suggest that gains and sides are dose dependent. I know a fair few old boys that took gear for YEARS and all have had problems in later life (mid 50's to mid 60's) and all have thier own reason to believe it was due to AAS use....to some degree, so trying to find a low dose alternative to todays super cycles seems sensible doesn't it???

woody, i think you and sam have had personal disagreements so maybe your views are not altogether unblinkered, so maybe you should not be on here slagging this method off???

cwoody123

Mate i am not here slagging the method off...i would love to find it works! But in reality i have my doubts. the reason these old boys had problems is that they didn't run PCT as it was not even heard of.

The longer your body is in a hypo gonadal state the more chance there is of permanent damage!...So lets say hypothetically that this low dose Dbol cycle does shut you down to lets say 9 nmol ...you would most likely have sexual function and your balls will look ok but your old test level used to be 22nmol. Your body then determines that this is its new set point so you are left partially hypogondal!

This is why blood work is vital and will once and for all put this to rest!


As far as i am concerned i have no gripes towards Samurai...i think he was a little out of order at times and should not have slagged off a senior moderator in such a way. I belive that Cookie & Samurai both had plenty to offer they just would not allow people to question there methods.

At the end of the day Samurai made gains there is no doubting that, but ultimately that was because he was taking AAS (regardless of the dose!) the long term damage could already be done...without blood work we can't know for sure!

winger

I could not agree more. How can you debate the fact that blood work wasn't done? Hell, even cholesterol is affected in as short as 21 days doing gear. How do I know this? Because I have the blood work to confirm this.

I never comment on any gear thread but I feel I need to at this point.
If I ever did gear for my first time I would do testosterone for my first go.
Why? Because why get shut down from dbol when it isn't even testosterone that my body produces naturally.

Also, if your tes levels are low do they prescribe dbol for hormone replacement therapy? No, they prescribe testosterone, so why take anything else?

How about this, 14 day cycle of tes prop and be done with it. Oh by the way, I have tried this with all the blood work.

Pscarb

totally agree with Winger to believe that this method does never shut you down or severly suppress the HPTA without having any blood work done is stupid and those preaching that it does not negatively effect the HPTA prove it simple as that really do the cycle and get bloods done before middle and after......

Any steroid taken at a dose that will result in muscle gains will eventually shut you down this is fact, if your dose is not enough to produce muscle gains....whats the point??

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ONE SMART COOKIE

Well well well, whilst the cat is a way, all the self proclaimed experts come out to play!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Tut tut tut

Meaning????????

Or is that one of your usual veiled attacks?????

Or are you NOW a self appointed expert, with no medical background qualifications or even enough steroid using experiance to be dishing out information on public forums with no liability insurance, no training qualifications.. NOTHING...

Hence the reason why I avoid these types of discussions, given the lay the blame culture we now recide in

And before you ask I`m a qualified trainer, had numerous years of steroid use (good & bad) with some bodybuilding competitions under my belt and have trained others to do competitions.

So experiance & qualification wise I think I trump you in those departments.

Your *sarky vieled comments* are very tiring and the reason why numerous people have left this forum, been prompted to stand up to your *sarkyness* and resulted in being banned for having the gaul to do to you as you do to others, but you do it in a veiled manner, then cry foul when you are *attacked*


Thanks buddy and spot on, there are also other issues as to why he KEEPS pulling down what Sam69 did..

Load of bollox,

Lets point out the truth which can easily be verified in your other posts on other threads, if they haven`t been deleted or tampered with.

You screwed up the cycle in the first place, by not having enough time off your previous cycle(s) (Tbol I think) and then proceeded to be a numpty, play the EXPERT and increase the dosage to way beyond what it needed to be.

YOU SCREWED UP NOT THE CYCLE.

As for the other individual, there was no blood work done before the cycle was used so that is again *bending the truth*

To quote your own *irresponsible to let people follow this* it is irresponsible for any unqualified person to be giving ANY form of information out on any public forum.

The only fact it didn`t work for you were you screwed it up and no doubt can`t even training properly given your posted training records go to show in past threads.

Thank you, and you have highlighted EXACTLY why this protocol works so well and why it is mainly *suggested* to first timers as a *safer* alternative to the irresponsible suggestions of taking in hundreds of miligrams per week which is now the *normal* suggested dosages for 1st timers..

£ucking madness..... to suggest such un needed dosages...

We also moved on from the 14x14 quite sometime ago (about 12 months ago to be exact) to 14x21 or 16x21 to allow better recovery on a number of levels.

But I will have to add I don`t encourage the use of drugs these days, as answers can quiet easily be found else where.

First off appologies old buddy for my usual lack of keeping in touch & feel fre to pop over anytime as you know where I now recide.

If memory serves me correct you mate has been using that course for near on 2 years now and I have yet to see you post up any problems he has had.

Which some would have shown by now as any small problem would have got progressively worse as time went on and manifested itself into a big problem.

Spot on matey

If the protocol was so bad then myself, sam69 & biker (plus others) would not have spent the amount of time we did discussing all these problems in other threads all that time ago. We have been through all this stuff before and it gets very tiring having o do it again and again and again because people don`t LOOK or read properly.

Sam69 must have done close to 30+ cycles of this format and as of yet we have not seen any negative side effects even after 18-24 months of him being clean.

If there were any small problems homeostasis would have highlighted those by making them BIGGER problems as time went on. He is fit & well & training hard.

Now make your mind up...

Either play the good cop or the bad cop...

As per usual you switch your attitude per person or per post, depending on how much of a veiled attack you think you can get away with..

You have plenty of gripes toward sam69 and that is plain for all to see in deleted torecent events...OOHHH no its not posts were manipulated and deleted to leave a very onesided arguement & view point..

As for myself if I never allowed anyone to question me I wouldn`t still be learning like I continue to do.

You made your own bed you just couldn`t lie in it.

As previously pointed out if there were any underlining conditions they would have grown to such an extent over the 12 months that he did this cycle.

As it is nothing has even come to light in any format, small or large.

And his gains were not purely down to gear use (15, 10, 5mgs cycles) but also down to the fact he knows how to train properly and everything else was a little boost.

So if you have no problem with sam69 then take him up on his very generous offer of training & living with him for 2 weeks in Portugal and seeing what can be achieved without the need for chemical aids.

In fact I`ll even extend the offer to training with me, & I`ll show you what can be done.

Just ask TH&S who has been up a couple of times, I don`t bite.....

If your going to accuse people of being closed minded and not allowing to be questioned then meet them and see what they do and question them civily in person(s)....

Choice is yours.

I`ll put my money were my mouth is...

Are you prepared to????????????????????

Other wise take some of your own advice that you post on your own journal(s)

IF YOU DON`T HAVE ANYTHING POSITIVE TO SAY THEN DON`T SAY IT THIS IS SAM69`S THREAD NOT YOURS.

Already been done last year and a few years back..

I just don`t publicise everything I do...

newbies don`t want to stick needles i themselves given as needles conjure up the notion of *junkie* tablets are much easier for them to cross that line to drug use.

Please show me anywhere were it has been posted that this protocol will not result in any form of shutdown????????

It has never been posted ever....

As for doseage and muscle gains,

Well I`ve Sam69 gained on 5mgs per day and I`ve had people gain on 4mgs per day, so who decides what is the right dose for muscle gain especially in a fuirst timer..

The guys suggesting 250-500mgs sust a week for 8 weeks?

or

Somebody suggesting 5mgs per day for 14 days?

I know which I would choose as the safer more cautious route.....

Ok gentlemen it has been an intereesting return form retirement/exile & I`ll leave you with these few parting word..

If you can`t grow or make improvements then I`ll bet a pount to a penny its your training, diet, recovery work, lifestyle or all of the above..

Easily fixable withoiut chemical assistance..

Just look backwards in history to see guys who could lift monstrous weights relative of their lightish bodyweights (sandow, hackensmidtz) yet had ripped muscular physiques, didn`t use drugs, supplements, lifting aids (belts suits) had the gym equipment or science of today to help them out like we all do today.

They out lift and look better than a whole host of us and we are suppose to be more advanced..

Food for thought.......

Feel free to pop over and ask any questions you have, you all know where I am these days..

Adios.............

Pscarb

no mate this is a forum for debate so everyone has the right to comment on any thread....

I never said it was being stated that no one said it did not cause shutdown i merly commented on the fact it did, just in case any newbie read the thread and thought it did not...calm down please mate i know sam is your buddy and you back this type of cycle but every one is entitled to comment....

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Lost Soul

No my friend, do you have an address. I enjoyed reading your thoughts