mikehunt02

hi there, new to the board and needed some help planning a cycle

current stats are

21
220lbs
18%bf
6'3"

basically i wan't to do a cutting cycle i've never had a problem putting on muscle but i've always had a problem dropping excess bodyfat, this would be my first cycle so alot of people have suggested test prop,

initial idea was

Weeks 1-6 - T3 @ 80 mcg e/d ( ramp up and down )
Weeks 1-6 - Test Prop 50mg EOD
Weeks 1-2 - Clen @ 160 mcg e/d

(40,80,120,160,160,160,160,140,120,100,80,60,40,20 )

Weeks 3-4 - Animal Cuts ( 2 Sachets Per Day )

Weeks 5-6 - Clen @ 160 mcg e/d
(40,80,120,160,160,160,160,140,120,100,80,60,40,20 )

then following standard pct

taking in about 2200kcal a day

then i was told this was too low for the test and that 100mg would be better.

so the questions are

1) is testosterone propionate the best option for this kind of cycle or would there be something more effective, i was initially looking at primobolan, winstrol and clenbuterol , but was told this was a bit too advanced for a first time user, also got told that anavar would be another choice instead of the test what do you guys think

2) With a low dose of test would standard PCT be a bit overkill or better safe than sorry?

3) and finally if i was taking t3 would 2200 kcal be enough or would i still lose too much muscle

big

1. Yes, test prop would be a great choice if you can take EOD injections.

2. Run PCT. What you're describing as low dose test is actually several times your normal test production - which will shut you down, make no mistake about it. Run standard PCT.

3. I think 2200 cals is VERY low personally for your bodyweight. However, it depends where those 2200 cals are coming from.

I do think your dose of clen is kinda high though.

mikehunt02

thanks for the quick reply,

it doesn't have to be eod it was recommended on another board, basically i want the best results from the cycle.
If there's a better choice in terms of anything to prevent catabolisim from the t3 please tell me..

As for clen what would you recommend i've taken it before on it's own that's probably why it's so high.

As for the Diet mainly good sources, of Protein, Low Gi Carbs Apart from after gym, an reasnoably low fat

as for supps at the moment it tak

CLA
Multi Vitamin
EFA
No-xplode ( Just Finished Yesterday )

Sample

Breakfast

Bran Flakes
2 eggs

Pre Workout

Oats 50g
Chicken breast

Post workout

Protein Shake
Banana

1hr later

100g Wholewheat Pasta
1can tuna
30g low fat Mayo

Snack

Oatcakes

Supper

200g chicken
200g Veggies

Snack

Protein Shake

Jimmy

Diet isnt bad....maybe needs a little more EFA's

I dont like to see T3 used in such high doses

You will get what you need from diet and cardio

That dose of clen is high...but i hate the buzz i get form it

Prop is good but primo is in no way too advanced but expensive

I think a low dose of prop/primo/winstrol would be excelent for cutting

remember though that cutting is mainly to do with diet and the choice of steroids wont have that much bearing on fat levels....rather water retention

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mikehunt02

Thanks Jimmy,

i think i'll take the clen down to about 120mcg and take the t3 down to 60 mcg.

what kind of dasages would i be looking at with prop and should i combine prop with primo or winny or again is that too advanced?

i was thinking

Weeks 2-6 - T3 @ 80 mcg e/d ( ramp up and down )
Weeks 1-6 - Test Prop 50mg EOD

Weeks 1-2 - Clen @ 120 mcg e/d
Weeks 3-4 - Animal Cuts ( 2 Sachets Per Day )
Weeks 5-6 - Clen @ 120 mcg e/d

PCT Clomid

300mg day 1, 100mg 10 days after that, and then 50mg 10 days after that

As for diet i'll start incorperating some almonds or pumpkin seeds in there to help wit the efa's

Jimmy

I would go with

50mg prop EOD
100mg primo E5D
50mg winny tabs ED

I feel any more than 25mcg T3 with 100mcg T4 would be catabolic as well as dangerous for your thyroid

clen at 80-100mcg ED for 2 weeks on two weeks off is ample

rely on diet and cardio for the rest

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'Genetics is the science of heredity and variation in living organisms. Inheritance in organisms occurs by means of discrete traits, called genes.'

hackskii

That cycle looks ok to me but I would add some fish oils. This will give you the biggest bang for your buck in EFA's.

With a good diet you can cut up nicely without too much catabolism. If you only reduce your total calories by about 500 a day you can lose about 1 lb a week. If you restrict your calories too much you will go catabolic and your metabolism will slow down. this is not what you are looking for.

Your snack of oatcakes is very high in the Glycemic Index and I would switch to either something slow like peanuts or you will have to add something like peanut butter to that oatcakes, to slow down the spiking of blood sugars.

Also if you keep the fiber high in the diet you will notice the blood sugars will not spike as bad either.

I always gain weight on gear. So if you keep the gear low enough to stay out of catabolism then you will be better too.

Other supps for catabolism that will help out here are things like:
Ornithine alpha-ketoglutarate (OKG)
L-glutamine
Protein (150 grams, or more a day)
L-Carnitine---- L Carnitine makes fats available for energy
Chromium-----helps maintain blood sugar levels from spiking too.

Also, you can get away with a low dose of T3 to like 12.5mcg and this will actually aid in carbohydrate assimilation without you going catabolic.

Or you can try a keto type diet. They work very well for some.

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Scott


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mikehunt02

Do you mean in conjunction with the cycle or instead of the cycle.

i'm thinking that the primo , winny and test prop's a bit too much,

maybe

Weeks 2-6 - T3 @ 25 mcg e/d
Weeks 1-6 - Test Prop 50mg EOD
Weeks 4-6 - Winstrol Tabs 50mg e/d
Weeks 1-2 - Clen @ 100 mcg e/d
Weeks 3-4 - Animal Cuts ( 2 Sachets Per Day )
Weeks 5-6 - Clen @ 100 mcg e/d


or

Weeks 2-6 - T3 @ 25 mcg e/d
Weeks 1-6 - Primobolan 100mg E5D
Weeks 4-6 - Winstrol Tabs 50mg e/d
Weeks 1-2 - Clen @ 100 mcg e/d
Weeks 3-4 - Animal Cuts ( 2 Sachets Per Day )
Weeks 5-6 - Clen @ 100 mcg e/d

But since primo and winstrol won't convert to estrogen wouldn't this negate the need for post cycle therapy.

Or

Weeks 2-6 - T3 @ 25 mcg e/d
Weeks 1-6 - Primobolan 100mg E5D
Weeks 4-6 - Test Prop 50mg eod
Weeks 1-2 - Clen @ 100 mcg e/d
Weeks 3-4 - Animal Cuts ( 2 Sachets Per Day )
Weeks 5-6 - Clen @ 100 mcg e/d


Also debating if i'm going to use Winstrol , Depot or Tablets
what would you recommend

the other thing is i was to use primo every 5 days and prop every other day soon my ass would start to resemble a pin cusion if i was using something with a short half life lik winstrol would i not be able to use test enanthate or cypionate so i could to it once a week 150 - 200mg but then again i suppose i'd have to legnthen the cycle

anayway again any info's greatly appreciated

hackskii

Well, I think you can achieve what you are looking for without all the drugs.
Diet is key for fat loss. Diet is first and foremost for fat loss.
I think you can stay out of catabolism with a clean diet.
Now that we got that covered, there are things that can help things along but again diet will give you everything you are looking for.

But if your mind is set on gear then we can modify this to avoid catabolism.
This can be cut to a minimum anyway but lets just look at the gear side of things.

If you have to use gear then the least amount will suffice.
Those 6 week cycles are a bit too long to avoid PCT, which ever one you decide will include PCT.

Cutting gears are winny, tren, prop, sorry but if you decide on these then they will have to be a short cycle of lets say 17-25 days.
You will gain weight unless the gear is at a minimum to avoid catabolism.

Clen, ECA, T3, DNP all these will cut fat but at a price.
Again, if you have your diet nailed then this is all unnecessary.
HGH on the other hand,,,,,OH dont get me started

The tablets of winny would work just fine all by them selves.
Remember the object is your using winney (or other gear) to avoid catabolism, this wont take much unless you are really calorie deprived. If the protein is high enough and the diet is good then this is all excessive on the gear.
I think you should stick with the winney and just see how it all goes.
If you want to add T3 then taper that and keep it within that 17-25 day short cycle to avoid the PCT and muscle loss due to shutdown of the HPTA.
Id be somewhat leary of shutdown of the HPTA and the thyroid all at the same time as you would look like crap one month after you achived your goal.
You can always do the clen post cycle anyway after the short cycle.

There are things that will help you like morning cardio using caffine or ECA with water first thing in the morning (no food).
Massive water (cold).
No carbs after mid afternoon.
Carbs post workout only and first thing in the morning.
fats and protein at night.
L-Argenine, L-Ornathine at night before bedtime to spike GH production.
Fish oils with your meals.
L-Glutamine first thing in the morning and after workouts.
Less sleep (I will get flamed for this) will help burn cals.
Chromium with meals.
Vanadium for cravings for sweets.
Increase fiber.

Sorry for rambling on so...................

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Scott


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Malakor

Quite agree on this. If I push out a few late nights (or should that be early mornings?) then my weight just falls away. Never found the need for more than 6 hrs a night anyhow - maybe I'm just getting old?
:(

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Cheater2K

Bumping Jimmys advice, prob the best solution IMHO

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Cheater

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mikehunt02

OK i've been going through all of the info you guys have given me and have decided on the following, i'm still thinking about the Primo do you guys thinks it's necessary?

Also with winny would i be able to run Test Enanthate or Cypionate instead to cut down on the Jabs,

Weeks 2-6 - T3 @ 25 mcg e/d
Weeks 1-6 - Test Prop 50mg EOD
Weeks 4-6 - Winstrol Tabs 50mg e/d
Weeks 1-2 - Clen @ 100 mcg e/d
Weeks 3-4 - Animal Cuts ( 2 Sachets Per Day )
Weeks 5-6 - Clen @ 100 mcg e/d

Then Clomid starting 3 days after Last Jab

Day 1 300mg
Days 2 - 11 100 mg
Days 12 - 21 50 mg

With Nolva on hand in case Gyno starts.

Diet Is a Follows

Breakfast

2 Eggs
Bowl Bran Flakes

Pre - Workout

50g Oats
Chicken Breast or Tuna

Post Work Out

Banana
Protein Shake ( Whey )

1 hr Later

100 g Wholwheat Pasta
Chicken Breast or tuna

Snack

Peanuts or Cashew Nuts

Dinner

Veggies
Steak or Chicken or Tuna

Snack

Casein Protein Shake


any changes are welcome

thanks

hackskii

Id swap that pasta for more vegetables. Like steamed broccolli or even raw for that matter and maybe a couple of fish oil tabs with each meal.
Other than that, you just might put on some muscle too.

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Scott


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mikehunt02

hey guys just been going through and seeing what i need to order, how much Nolva should i keep on hand incase gyno starts ?

thanks alot

Jimmy

Guys....we produce all our natrual GH at night whilst sleeping

GH is one of the best fat b urners

loosing sleep wont help weight loss in the l,ong run

its scientificly prooven

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