Great White

Hey Gang

Right, starting to look vaugley into my next cycle.

Not gonna be for 12 - 16 weeks but im thinking about the possabilitys of Insulin.

Ive had such great results from this cycle, that i think im gonna stick to Test, Primo and Anavar on my next cycle.

It will be the last bulking cycle for the year, as after that, I will be focusing on cutting down to compete at the EFBB in March 2006.

Now, Do i really need to think about using insulin at all? Been reading up and results from some people are very good.

Also a lot of people are reporting GREAT gains from IGF1 at the moment.

The only thing that worries me about insulin is the fact that it can indeed kill you very quickly if you aint got carbs on hand

Anyways, Thoughts, suggestions?

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Cheater2K

Paul, what you need is a bum bag and a stash of on-hand mars bars simple fix to the carb problem, and will make you look gayer than you normal look with the bum bag ;) hehe

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Stu

From what i've read IGF-1 sounds very promising. I could be wrong but i think Robdog said he was seeing some good things from it.

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robdog

Its good mate but as you say dangerous. Its not for me to say whether you need it in your next cycle but if you do use get some good advice and realy think about it.

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Timmy Smooth

What's the idea behind adding insulin exactly? I know it's one of the three most anabolic natural compounds in your body and understand about insulin spikes etc. Is the idea that by flooding your system with loads of testosterone (gear) and insulin (IGF1) you create an optimum or more efficient anabolic state? OK, maybe that's a bit state the obvious - you're gonna do it to get bigger! - just wondering how it works.

Cheers.

ChefX

IMO insulin has no place in health and never did in bodybuilding. It is one of the big causes of GUT as it over time increases smooth muscle tissue in the intestines.

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Timmy Smooth

You mean when you see BB's with pot-bellys? I've seen some pics of Ronnie Coleman and his stomach seems to be pushing out his abs.

big pete

ive used it and TBH i got fat off it.

weight shot up, but so did the waistline. IGF is great stuff, hit my highest weight on that with no change to waistline

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Cheater2K

IGF also causes enlarged organs etc though, and increaseing higher chances of getting cancer, not that im saying i wouldnt use it personaly, because iwould, but again, i cant afford to :(

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Jimmy

IMO stay off IGF.....stay off slin too

go for a good old fashioned gear cycle.....maybe add GH as its not half as dodgy as IGF

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'Genetics is the science of heredity and variation in living organisms. Inheritance in organisms occurs by means of discrete traits, called genes.'

Jimmy

i got this from dutch bb'er over at body of science.............


Posts: 11

Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2005 2:57 pm Post subject:
Thanks dude, here is the translation for the other members ...................




IGF stands for insuline-like growth factor. It is a natural substance that produced becomes in the human body and reaches be most natural levels during the puberty. During the puberty, IGF is the cause of the natural muscle growth that prevents especially during these years. There are many different things that IGF in the human body does; I will only the points mention that for physical enlargement considerably be. The furrow bodybuilders most important advantages its o. a. an increased aminozuurtoevoer at cells, increased glucosetoevoer, increased protein synthesis, decreased protein demotion, and the increased synthesis of RNA.

When IGF asset has been carried it self differently in different types of fabrics. In muscle cells, the proteïnen and the accompanying celcomponenten are stimulated. The protein synthesis is raised together with aminozuurabsorptie. IGF mobilizes fat for use as energy in vetweefsel. In thin fabric, prevents IGF insuline glucose over the celmembranen to transport. Consequently the cells must switch over on the burning of fat as an energy source. Round these reasons raised the user of IGF as by itself its vetvrije mass.

The probable most interesting and powerful working, that IGF has on the human body, is has to cause its capacity hyperplasia, split up is which the actual of cells. The hypertrofie is prevents what during your weights training and steroïde use, it is simple a raising of the size of your muscle cells. For after your puberty have you a fixed number muscle cells, and everything you can do is the increasing of this muscle cells, you reach simply no longer.,. Only, through the use of IGF can this hyperplasia cause, that want to say that you actual your present number muscle cells in the fabric raise, and through weights training and steroïden use can you these new cells ripen, you let them with other words grow and more strongly become.,. On this manner, IGF can increase you genetically potentially in terms of muscle fabric and numbers muscle cells actual. IGF multiplied and changed the by nature present cells. On genetic level the the potentially of every individual the genetic limit to raise so a superior muscle compactness own and size to build.
Medical community has published be in a position to numerous articles over IGF cancer to cause, diabetes and gigantisme. Tezelfdertijd are exported on thousand patients with muscle illnesses gedocumenteerde experiments. And there one report significant progresses. Is this not already once before happened with AIDS patients that steroïden get administered and anti-conception pills that family hormones as Testosteron contain??

Lung R3 IGF-1 combined with Insuline or rhGroeihormoon.

There is a lot of discussion over the resemblance between IGF and the human growth hormone. The most stolen question is is vague a little more efficient. GH do not want to grow your muscles immediately, it works indirect through protein synthesis possibilities to raise, and the increased the quantity insuline that a person use effectively can the increased also the quantity anabole steroïden that a person use effectively can. GH causes is destroyed also indirect the muscle growth by the vrijmaking of IGF to promote when the (GH) in the human body. Thus your GH would be able to look at as a precursor (precursor) of IGF. The simpler to put, will you also can say that IGF more efficient and immediatelyer work by the causing of the muscle growth and of the muscle compactness. IGF is also much more profitable. About it exist “experts”that let us assume that it more effectively is during a cure with IGF at the same time a minimal doses GH to take. Because GH its working performed via the intermediary hormone IGF-1 and self no direct influence on the muscle growth practices, is a combination not necessarily. About it exist would advise single scientific studies, that the existence of a G2 receptor suppose, that as it cause will a GH molecuul at this G2 receptor dokt, an IGF like muscle growth, the supporters of this hypothesis I of the mornings a dose of 2 IU GH to take. The existence of a G2 receptor is not scientific affirmed, but who had till for single years of IGF-1 heard?

If you the simultaneous use of IGF1 with Insuline plant, consider then that IGF1 not duration is, certainly can you with less IGF closed through insuline in the cure closed to fit, but the IGF1 and the Insuline have together a per-insuline effect on the total balance of the blood sugar. It can raise your chances on a hypoglycemische episode with the tienvoudige. I would advise it nobody, that not absolutely has been trusted with IGF and insuline.

IGF can become uses also effective only and visibly will be the muscle profits also then yet easy. With the growth hormone, you must not use is also high quantities anabole androgene steroïden and sleepiness also insuline substantial results to reach, this the case with IGF. IGF can alone on itself become uses, and becomes through bodybuilders sleepiness uses the period between the different cure cycles to bridge, this overbruggingsperiode very has been arranged IGF to use see it no restraining effect has on the natural (endogene) testosteronproductie so that the you with that in state put to the natural hormone production and hormone levels back to turn. A cure of IGF, PGF2a, HCG, and Clomid a good overbruggingskuur is and puts your body in state to the normal status back to turn and to stand you really yet closed new muscle profits to keep and to make.

IGF is has been approved an onderzoekspeptide, it not yet for use as medicine and it becomes present examined for the repair of the nerve fabric, as a help for fire wound victims, and also as possible help with muscle loss (muscle wasting) for the patients with an AIDS contagion. IGF appeared offers command also a regenererende working to own on the damaged neuronen in the brain, what incredible possibilities by cure of damaged in the brain, by oxigen flaw by birth, by beroertes, Alzheimer etc etc.

There many different available analogen of IGF are to mention, instead of they all, will mention I simple the two mostly occurring and mostly efficient. The usual recombinant IGF is is one of two, it expensiver and most inefficiënt. The usual IGF has only a half ring time of approximately 10-20 minutes in the human body and is destroyed fast, it can be combined knit with particular binding proteïnen round the half ring time out to, but that is no simple procedure and there is a more efficient and less expensive available version. The most efficient form of IGF is Long R3 igf-1, it is chemical changed and has changes in aminozuur sequentie that avoid that it self binds at proteïnen in the human body and the allowing a much longer half ring time to have, around 20-30 hour. "Lung® R3 IGF-1 is an analogous (diverted) of IGF-1 of 83 aminozuren consisting of the complete human IGF-1 with substitie of an Arg (R) for Glu (E) by position three, hence R3, and an extra chain of 13 aminozuren by the end point (terminus) of N. This analogously by IGF-1 has been produced with the intention the biological activity of the IGF peptide to raise."

Lung® R3 IGF-1 is significant more powerful than the normal IGF-1. The improved power is to be written closed at the decreased affinity of Lung R3 IGF-1 at all known bindingsproteïnen and then especially IGFBP 3. This binding proteïnen brake normal the biological working of IGF. For the rest of this article when I IGF say refer I now to Lung R3 IGF-1 the one and others legibly to hold.

It has not been see available is is enough also expensive it a media-degree version what kind of the body bump thing use. There is is could have been observed also an available receptor-degree only these sore duration and the only noticeable difference between two only in laboratory setting. The price on the black market for IGF lies between the $300-$500 per milligram dependent on the source, ups and downs very carefully black market merchants from it just which IGF see one VERY with difficulty to obtain item is. As mentioned is IGF an investigation product and is only available by a few laboratories in the world and then yet is the only available for investigation business and bioengineering institutions. Round it just which form of IGF ONLY is furnished in a gevriesdroogde form, consequently in a dry powder state. NEVER A VOORVERDUNDE FLUID IGF AANSCHAFFEN!!! A such product becomes only sporadic in the world made (GroPep Australia) and even as it ever real IGF in the bottle sat was it for a long time death by the time you it receive. IGF is very sensitive peptide and must that be diluted, where your entry have till a refrigerator and a diepvriezer. Immediately after the diluting, you would have to keep the solved IGF in the refrigerator on 4º C. Supplies that you solved have already and longer wants keep then 30 days, can freeze you better. By the solving not too much shake. Solvents that you for IGF necessarily have be a weak concentration of hydrochloride sour and a sterile buffer (sterile water or bacteriostatisch water) the procedure IGF to dilute is not very difficult, solvent liquids (as BacStat) can by the most local chemical suppliers be obtained and a good source of IGF will also necessary solvents must can furnish.

Quantity, cure length and time.

As also the these over this subject there as well steroïden-, groeihormoon- and other ergogenicagebruik strongly differ, go we single of this describe. In the practice go most athletes on the last itself teach and personal am I of opinion that a plan that for the one works not persé for everybody needs to work.,. General is believed them to me that through a heavy workout “micro trauma” arises them to me d. w. z. small muscle damages, precisely on these “damaged them to me”muscles raised them to me the body the number IGF receptoren, so that these at the IGF molecuul can them to me signaliseren where precise repair necessary is, ABOUT THAT grow your muscles and has the IGF a preference for the place where the being wondrous working performs. IGF is is injected therefore the mostly efficiently when the under the skin (subcutaan) with an insulinespuitje 15 minutes after your training. The best time for injections is immediate after your weights training and/or of the mornings. Just this preference sees to for it that your muscles grow and not your organs etc, for also the inside of your intestine and abdominal wall is closed occupy with IGF receptoren and the supposition exists strong that a surplus at Lung R3 IGF-1 self by verzadiging of the spiercel receptoren will bind at your hands-feet-faces bones (topatleten show vague the so much known GH cheekbones). And yes that swimmer. And everybody remembers the GH-gosh either the growth hormone pen of many topbodybuilders.

The most efficient length for a cure of IGF is as I already put controversial, by far the most go from of a 30 days on 30 summon finished plan, others put 50 days use and 20-40 summon stop. The heaviest controversy that Lung® R3 IGF-1 use surrounds is the most efficient quantity. The most used not quantity was found of between 20mcg/dag and 120+mcg/dag, personal will I further go then 50 mcg round up here described reasons. IGF is will be go on a cure is go on a cure go on a cure only available per milligram, one mg then sufficient for a 50 days by 20mcg/dag, 2mg enough for a 50 days by 40mcg/dag, 3mg for a 50 days of 60mcg/dag, etc. The quantities question turns use mainly the how many money that you spend wants most athletes the minimum quantity of 20mcg per day and is happy with the results, and in fact, passing highly placed bodybuilders a quantity of 20mcg use/ day and are satisfied with the results. In an otherwise good built article even is stolen that one perhaps even already optimally can perform on 10 mcg/day. Since shorten have I self the disposition over IGTROPIN, and we are immediate begun with use so that we, in due time, also personal experiences at this article can add. IGF side effects

All means have is on till certain height side effects and IGF no exception. If the peptide in larger quantity of so around 100mcg + becomes uses can the headache cause, and sometimes nastiness and it can till low blood sugar or hypoglycemia there some users cause. Although I never this from the first hand learnt am I it certain of that it where is. Exceeded however never 120mcg on one day. IGF can then serious bowels and intestine problems cause
as tumors, swelling intestines, diarrhea and broke.

Weariness De users report sometimes an uitgevloerd and vermoeid feel during the whole day. This appears will make one of the negative side effects to be of IGF, it your sleep period longer and will require equipped it s' nights more sleep you good in the morning to feel. This is inherent at high doses HGH and is observed also with children, whose IGF levels are extremely high. A child has 4 hour more sleep necessarily then an average adult. This can direct or indirect on IGF levels be taken back.

Rigor An almost jichtig feeling becomes general also geassocieerd with high levels of HGH, IGF has the same effect. IGF will cause pain in the fingers and the joints of the hands.

Someone else vague stolen ask refers clean over IGF to the real results, in terms of weight in kilos. You are not necessary to expect a muscle profit of 5 pounds per week to reach, as that well can with oxymetholone or similar steroïden. The only weight that you by use of IGF will reach is clean thin muscle fabric, with steroïden is the largest part of the reached weight water weight. With an efficient quantity, you can expect soak 1-2 pound new thin muscle fabric to acquire per 2-3 and can be raised these results by the simultaneous use of testosteron, anabole steroïden, and/or insuline. Increased vasculariteit is also very general prevented, the men report that they veins appear where to take where they that before appeared never to have had. Someone else reported working is to be remained is the capacity vetvrij during the use of heavy quantities of steroïden and an enormous quantity food during a cure IGF, this perhaps well the most pleasant working. An increased pump is also almost immediate noticeable, this pump can become so painful, that train becomes further impossible, the pump is does sometimes even noticeable when the user cardio., an individual reports clean self a pump during the teeth.

IGF and thyroid gland hormones

What do there at the same time the thyroid gland of men that itself administer IGF lifted? Interesting enough IGF users have high T# values (the active thyroid gland hormone) in thyroid gland test (Thyroid function tests). That is the tegenovergestelde of what with patients with a GH- therapy is observed, that have usually a low T3 reflect and normal till increased T4 mirrors (the inactieve thyroid gland hormone) probably try your body its homeostase to maintain (b. v. how more high the metabolism of the GH-user rises, than consequence of the risen fat mobilisering by GH, of the too lower try your body its T3 mirrors to hold, round “Burn down”to prevent). IGF users take an increased metabolism of which, as consequence of an increased T3 reflect (IGF sees to for an increased transformation, the inactieve T4, notwithstanding that T3 the active hormone, what an immediate increased metabolism till consequence has. In a thyroid gland test show IGF-users an increased T3 reflect and an increased T3 recording (b. v. the remains at T3 that notwithstanding that T4 converteert) what kind of the first time shows, that the increased metabolism of the IGF-users for a part for the clear risen anabole working responsible is., .

Story

IGFBP3 is allows do the binding proteïne, which IGF1 long enough asset to remain in the system its magic work to can. IGF has of itself a half ring time of less then 10 minutes. The molecule is so small that it very fast escapes at the blood stream. This was the reason about which IGF use so "obscure" was. The required very frequent injections by high quantity even minimal results to reach. Besides requirement the composition a degree in biochemie. These working version shorten was injected turn only IGF which available was and one in 100 mcgdosering 4-6 per day. That is a whole lot IGF1. That declares turned off whole many of the bellies. Below merged one the peptide IGFBP3 with IGF which until 6 hours in the system wanted to work. You make to bind the molecule larger and it is locked up in the blood stream till the proteïne and the IGF is split up by IGF at IGFBP3, and the IGF molecule flee. You can promote its workings duration through it with Insuline to combine. The insuline prevents the analysis of IGFBP3 and let IGF1 molecule in the blood stream free wander for longer duration till at least 12 hours than the insulineniveaus return to their normal level will IGFBP3 self begin on to split up and IGF1 of its binding protein IGFBP3 deliver after which it again a half ring time has from less then 10 minutes. Below came final LONGR3 IGF-1> There was many discussion about the question how it must be solved. Many bodybuildingsites went had been solved the selling meanwhile it in 100% benzoyl alcohol Later realized one a weak sour solution required (b. v. 10mM HCI or azijnzuur), round premature decomposition of igf-1te prevent. I have passing studies seen that demonstrate that the cirkeldichromisme (cd) diagrams reveal that the IGF-1 own structure through benzyl alcohol is interrupted (PMID: 9165531). The very best what the bodybuilder wanted to come over is it appearing of a complete system in one box, that it even for the largest layman possible makes its injection liquid ready to make.

What yet more important am, I think not that bodybuilders self realize that immunogene LR3 igf-1 an adapted chain own with the sequence of the pigs growth hormone at the N-end leader of the hormone, hence “lung” in the name. If they LR3 igf-1 remain take, this will invariable antibodies develop against their endogene igf-1. This will the anabole effect of igf-1!!! decrease

...2004 ronny..

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'Genetics is the science of heredity and variation in living organisms. Inheritance in organisms occurs by means of discrete traits, called genes.'

Jimmy

Joined: 20 Jul 2004
Posts: 396
Location: Holland
Posted: Sun Mar 27, 2005 7:40 am Post subject: word
...a word of warning though, some autors believe it influences cancercells, so do I, but I think its only this dangerous for the predisposed, not all users get bald from androgens, but some do. I.m.o. you should keep it in mind as a possible side-efect...

IGF-1 can allow for hypertrophy of muscle. Will it do such a thing when administered to humans? Yes. However, the gains seen really aren’t spectacular. More often than not, they don’t even come close to gains seen using androgens.
For the most part, people should realize that IGF-1 is primarily responsible for GH’s anabolic effects in skeletal muscle as well as cell proliferation, leading to enlarged internal organs and increasing the risk for cancer dramatically. Oh, and this most certainly includes Long R3 IGF-I as I know some people will try to argue that it's much safer.
Well, in order to give you the total picture, I’m going to go over some basic molecular biology as well as list the direct evidence we have concerning the side effects of IGF-1 and yes, that includes Long R3 IGF-I.
First, people should understand that in the human cell cycle, growth requires growth factors in general. Seems simple enough. The next thing people need to understand is that for a normal cell, death is something that'll inevitably occur via loss of telomerase or apoptosis (programmed cell death). Again, I can’t overemphasize enough that the default pathway in humans is death, not growth. (Reassuring, isn't it?)
Now, when you hear of cancer, malignant cancer, people tend to think of uncontrolled cell division. Essentially though, these transformed cancerous cells are immortalized. Now, many changes are required for this to occur (i.e. increased telomerase, increased bcl-2, increased myc and decreased p53). In the development of cancer, we tend to think of carcingogens consisting of both initiators and promoters. For instance, some initiators are UV radiation and tobacco smoke, usually causing DNA damage or mutation, whereas promoters tend to stimulate cell division. A few examples are phorbol esters, hormones (e.g. estrogens) and yes, growth factors.
Now, keep in mind both events, initiation and promotion, are required for the development of malignant cells. As a side note, viral infection can also lead to the two events, but I digress. Anyhow, normally a cell serves its purpose and then dies via apoptosis. However, malignant cells don’t undergo apoptosis. They are, as I said before, immortal. The normal triggers to apoptosis are DNA damage, loss of cell-matrix contact, loss of cell to cell contact, and last but most certainly not least, lack of growth factors.
When you introduce growth factors, you’re providing the catalyst for cancer formation, so to speak. Let’s say, for instance, you get many sunburns during your lifetime. Now, let’s say that one cell has its DNA damaged or altered. This, in and of itself, isn’t too much of a concern as this is only one part of the equation, the iniation. The second part is the promoter (including growth factors).
Well, let’s imagine we introduce growth factors to the cell which has damaged or mutated DNA and it then begins to divide at a more and more rapid rate until it won’t stop. Voila, you have a tumor, which is now capable of even faster growth as well as being invasive (able to invade surrounding tissues) and metastatic (able to cause growth in completely unrelated and distant tissues) in regard to other tissues.
In other words, you now have a malignant tumor, which we commonly refer to as cancer. The fact is, cancer stems from just one cell, just one cell, which begins to divide uncontrollably. People often talk about GH and the side effects thereof, but what most don’t realize is that many of those side effects aren't necessarily mediated by growth hormone but by IGF-1.
Many people may go their whole lives with some DNA damage (or mutation rather) and never have cancer, but with the addition of growth factors, you’re asking for trouble. Even more specifically, you can increase the risk of developing rare forms of cancer, like sarcomas, which are tumors commonly found in connective tissues (i.e. muscle, bone, cartilage, etc.)
Okay, now on to the more cosmetic side effects. With Long R3 IGF-I, it was shown to stimulate growth of the gastrointestinal tract. IGF-1 actually had no effect on body weight and wet tissue weight of the small and large intestine, whereas Long R3 IGF-I resulted in a 20% increase in the weight of the small and large intestine. This is what's causing a "GH gut" although using Long R3 IGF-I is much, much worse than using GH.
Something else to keep in mind is that Long R3 IGF-I was shown to be even more potent than IGF-1 in inhibiting apoptosis and thus its potential for causing cancer is many times greater.
Another idea is that IGF-1 may also keep telomerase activity high, which as we noted previously is a contributing factor for the loss of regulation in terms of cell division. In other words, it again can substantially increase the risk for developing cancer. Long R3 IGF-I was shown to increase telomerase activity in human prostate cancer cells, whereas IGF-1 had no effect.
So, when I tell you to stay away from IGF-1, I’m actually referring to Long R3 IGF-I as it’s what's most commonly circulated and used. Although both aren't something a person should use, Long R3 IGF-1 is probably the worst choice you can make.
So, unless you’re an IFBB pro who consistently places in the top ten at popular contests, you should forget about using IGF-1, or specifically the analogue of IGF-1 called Long R3 IGF-I. It’s really not worth the risk. This, out of all the compounds that bodybuilders may use, is probably the worst in terms of potential side effects.
If you want a true distended belly and increased risk of cancer, be my guest. (47-52)

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...and as a finishing touch, God created the Dutch....

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'Genetics is the science of heredity and variation in living organisms. Inheritance in organisms occurs by means of discrete traits, called genes.'