The_Wolverine

iv posted this again because no one seemed to help when i posted it on my old post...
right, iv done 2 weeks on adex now and i wouldnt say iv seen much improvements in my gyno. so iv got some liquid letro on the way, should be here either today or tommorro...
i read a thread on this forum which i cant find the link but i wil copy and paste it below, so should i try that method or should i just stick .25mg every day til symptoms subside?,. and how long will this take approximatly?.... thoughts pleasee..

i think i found this article in one of robdogs threads and its just a copy and past and would just like advise on whether to try it or not..

"I am posting this thread to help answer all of the questions regarding gyno prevention and reversal, the use of letrozole and other anti-e’s. I will go over everything in very simple easy to understand language. Also we are talking about estrogen gyno here, not progesterone (but using letro will stop progesterone related problems as well since it inhibits all estrogen anyways). Progesterone gyno will be enlargement of your nipple area, the actual aereola, not a lump under it.

Let me make this first point very clear, as I state in my signature this is from my personal experience, so whether you agree with it or not is your own issue. I have helped many people with gyno and it has worked just fine for them as well.

To first understand why you are doing what you are doing I am going to go over a few things and a few definitions:

SERM – Selective estrogen receptor modulator. These drugs work by binding to the estrogen receptors and flooding them in a sense, making it difficult (but not impossible by any means) for estrogen to bind to the receptors and thus prevent the onset of estrogen related side effects.
Most common forms: Tamoxifen (Nolvadex), Clomiphene (Clomid)
AI – Aromatise Inhibitor. These drugs work by inhibiting the aromatization of estrogen. This means that in effect AI’s prevent androgens from converting to estrogen, again, making it difficult (but not impossible) for estrogen to reach receptor sites.
Most common forms: Anastrozole (l-dex, a-dex), Exemestane (aromasin), Femera (letrozole). For our purpose of reversing gyno we are interested in Letro.

Letro and your sex drive:
Letrozole will suppress your sex drive. This is another reason why it is so important to act on preventing gyno as soon as possible. Since we all know that Test should be run in every cycle this will cancel out the effect of sex drive suppression.

Running letro to prevent gyno:
If you decide to run estrogen protection while on cycle (and I suggest you do unless you are aware that you do not require it), you can run either a SERM or an AI. Letro will be the most powerful AI you can use, it will inhibit 98+% of estrogen using a dose as low as .25mg and even lower. This is why I suggest you do not use a dose higher than .50mg while on cycle just trying to prevent estrogen related side effects.

You will want to start running the letro approximately 2 weeks before you begin your cycle to allow it to fully stabilize in your blood. I have often heard the argument that letro takes up to 60 days to stabilize, I don’t know if I buy into this for the reason that I have reversed gyno after using letro for only 1 week. Still to be safe I recommend starting it before your cycle as stated above.

If you do decide to run letro there is absolutely no need to run another AI or SERM. Do not make the mistake of thinking more is better. Think of it this way; if letro is preventing the conversion of androgens to estrogen than there is no estrogen, what would the purpose of a SERM be when there is no estrogen to bind to the receptors? Nolva will only take away from the effectiveness of letro.

This brings me to my next point. Do not listen to anyone who tells you to bump up your nolvadex to 60+mg ED if you get gyno. I have no idea where this idea started but I have seen it suggest far too many times recently. Nolvadex will do nothing to reverse your gyno…let me make that clear IT WILL DO NOTHING FOR GYNO. If you are running nolva as your anti-e and start to develop gyno than sure you can bump the dosage a small amount to try to prevent it from progressing further, but letrozole must begin ASAP.

It is very important that you begin taking letrozole immediately, the longer your wait the more risk you take in not being able to reverse it.

How do I know if I have gyno?
If you have developed gyno you will have a lump behind your nipple. It will be fairly hard, and it will be tender to touch.

Running letro to reverse gyno:
I am going to go over the three different scenarios which people could fit into. Remember regardless of what scenario you are in it is important that you begin taking the letro ASAP.

1. Already using an anti-e aside from letro.
2. Already using letro @ a dose of .25mg or .50mg ED.
3. Not running any estrogen protection.

1.
Day 1: .25mg Letro + anti-e*
Day 2: .50mg Letro
Day 3: 1.0mg Letro
Day 4: 1.5mg Letro
Day 5: 2.0mg Letro
Day 6: 2.5mg Letro **

2.
Day 1: .50mg Letro
Day 2: 1.0mg Letro
Day 3: 1.5mg Letro
Day 4: 2.0mg Letro
Day 5: 2.5mg Letro **

3.
Day 1: .50mg Letro
Day 2: 1.0mg Letro
Day 3: 1.5mg Letro
Day 4: 2.0mg Letro
Day 5: 2.5mg Letro **

*Regardless of the anti-e you are using it is important to still use it for the first day you begin letro as the letro will not have taken any effect and you by no means want your body to be without any protection when gyno is already prevalent.

** You will remain at this dose until gyno symptoms subside. Once you believe your gyno is gone it is important to stay at this dose for another 4-7 days to ensure all traces are gone. I recommend people with a bf% over 15 stay on for a week as it may be harder to judge completely whether the lump is completely gone. Once this period is over it will be important to taper letro down slowly rather than coming off it completely. Regardless of which manner you tapered up your dose you will all taper down in the same fashion.

Day 1: 2.0mg
Day 2: 1.5mg
Day 3: 1.0mg
Day 4: .50mg***
Day 5: .25mg
***You can remain at this dose or go down further to .25mg. It is really up to you at this point. They are both very common maintenance doses as an anti-e while on cycle. Personally I have stayed with .25mg and never had a problem.

Letro and the estrogen rebound:
With your estrogen being completely inhibited there is a definite estrogen rebound as your body tries to re-stabilize the testosterone:estrogen balance. We can prevent this rebound effect by supplementing further with another AI or SERM. So, I suggest that when you are coming to the end of your cycle you will more than likely be using Nolva in your PCT so just make sure that you begin taking nolva the last day you are going to take your letro and then continue on as you would with regular PCT.

This now leads us into the question of reversing gyno while not on cycle. There are a few things to remember here. You have already waited longer than you should have, and your sex drive will be shot. You can use tribulus or another natural test booster to help you in this scenario but I can’t guarantee the effectiveness. Just follow gyno reversal protocols 2 or 3. When coming off again you must taper and begin using nolvadex to prevent any rebound effect that may occur.

How much nolvadex should you use if you are not going into PCT and running this off cycle? I suggest starting at 20mg ED for a week and then lowering it to 10mg for another week and then coming off completely. "

mars1960

Iv'e read that article by the original writer, for such a knowledgable "Dr" i sooooo love how he emphasises that NOLVA WILL DO NOTHING FOR GYNO, is that why the med profession have used and still do use it to reverse gyno.
I helped compile an article for another site on gyno reversal, i'll PM you the link and you can see where you're C&P comes into it.

pariah

The surgeon who cut my little gyno out disagrees with who ever it was said this "NOLVA WILL DO NOTHING FOR GYNO".

Btw Ive read Anti Es and Letro do not compete well together. One makes the other ineffective ( so ive read, google it )

The_Wolverine

cheers pal... but what do actually think of the letro cycle above or should you just stick at .25mg til the gyno subsides???... because i dont no if i should taper up and down with the letro i just keep it at the same dose everyday?,. adex didnt really do anything for me as for reversing gyno.

mars1960

One reduces the eficacy of the other by around 38% it doesn't make it ineffective, just less effective.

mars1960

The letro protocol layed out looks ok.

The_Wolverine

wel surgeons are bound to say that you cant reverse gyno because they want the cash coming in from surgery!!.... im just want to no the most effective way to take the letro to reverse the gyno?.. and how long i should do it for?. im just trying to plan things out.

pariah

Sorry you misread my psot perhaps ,The surgeon said to me that high doses of nolva will reverse gyno. Unfortunately for me, this is not the case. Letro sure works tho.

The_Wolverine

wel iv also tried high doses of nolva an adex and its had it didnt reduce my gyno,. so now going to try liquid letro when it arrives! so im hoping this will work,, if it does its a miracle drug. hahaha

bigacb

Try letro as suggested and like mars said it looks good. Taper down slowly, id prob say after 4 weeks on full dose if its not shrunk it wont though mate. Good luck.

The_Wolverine

cooll.. cheers for that. finger crossed then. haha.

IGF-1

I just cured my gyno recently and I'd say it's about 70% gone. I took .25mg/day for 5 weeks then tapered down in quarters over 9 days followed by 1 week of nolvadex @ 20mg/d.

2 weeks later I jumped straight onto a course of omnadren 250 @ 500mg/week just as a little boost before summer and no gyno symptoms at all. If anything now that I've come off with a full pct my gyno is about 95% gone. So all in all good results.

The_Wolverine

thats good going. al give it a try... miseed deliverary today which is typical so al hav be startin it tommorrow sometime.