The Fertility Thread (includes old posts from previous)

[dutch_scott]

Originally Posted by supercell

Good post mate.

J

sorry if this has been asked but are u at bodypower?

[sbeast007]

mine was 250mg proviron ed for a month then switched to clomid 100mg a day for first week then 50mg a day for a month, then switched to hcg at 1500iu every 3rd to 4th day
taking shot first thing in the morning. after i finished the first box of hcg i.e 3amps we found out the missis was pregnant.

[blackbeard]

so would you say hcg was the most potent med or the combination of all 3??
i don't think i could take that much proviron e.d.(painful semi permanent boner!!!)

[hackskii]

[QUOTE=mad_cereal_love;714549]

Originally Posted by brownie

This is my take on it mate.

1) Spermatocytogenesis and maturation of sperm occurs in the testes linked with cells called (IIRC) Sertoli cells.
2) Sertoli cells are in close proximity to Leydig cells
3) For proper spermatogenesis to occur, you need localised (emphasis) high concentrations of testosterone at the Sertoli cells where the sperm cells are generated and matured.
4) Leydig cells (remember close proximity to Sertoli cells) produce testosterone in your testicles, after stimulated to do so by hormones such as FSH/LH (hypothalamus and pituatory etc).
5) An excess of exogenously administered testosterone (ie. injecting yourself with steroids) will shut down the HPTA axis thus shutting down testosterone production in Leydig cells (and over prolonged periods of steroid use Leydig cells shrink and massively reduce in size due to underuse)
6) Shut down testosterone production from Leydig cells, you shut off the localised high testosterone concentrations at the Sertoli cells inhibiting spermatocytogenesis.

Thus once you understand all the above, how do you go about preventing this? Well the answer is quite straightforward - never allow that localised high testosterone concentration to fully be switched off. But you are on large doses of exogenous hormones that shut down your HPTA, so you need to somehow get the Leydig cells stimulated by FSH/LH despite this. This is where HCG comes in and it does that job.

Hence the moral of the story is, IMHO, the best approach to AAS use is to administer low levels of HCG once a week from the word GO, ie. 500IU once a week throughout the whole cycle/time on. This way you always keep your Leydig cells stimulated to produce SOME testosterone, locally to the Sertoli cells and keep spermatocytogenesis still occurring.

At least thats my take on the matter and this is why I always personally recommend using HCG at say 500IU per week every week from week 1 of AAS use...although many may disagree with me on that approach, I think it is the most sensible IMHO.

mcl

Very nice post mate, hope you don’t mind me elaborating on this idea some.

That high concentration of sperm that is in the testicles is called Intra-Testicular Testosterone (ITT).
As above on cycle FSH, LH and ITT pretty much drop to low amounts. This lack of stimulation to the Leydig cells (LH), the Sertoli cells (FSH) and ITT (lack of endogenous testosterone production) is most likely the reason for steroids and sterility issues.

A typical PCT can get you close, but pretty much does nothing for FSH and those lazy Sertoli cells, after all without sperm pregnancy wont happen.
I can think of 3 different drugs that address the atrophied Sertoli cells that will stimulate them to produce sperm.
HMG (Human Menopausal Gonadotropins)
rFSH (recombinant follicle stimulating hormone)
Clomid fertility drug used on both women and men, in women is promotes ovulation, in men it is used in fertility and to diagnose if one is primary (nuts), or secondary (pituitary) hypogonadism.
Clomid @ 100mg a day for 5 to 7 days doubles LH output, and increases FSH by 20% to 50%.

So, to produce results, one would need to stimulate all of the cells and glands to get back to work and do their jobs.
HCG is an LH analog; it will stimulate the Leydig cells to produce testosterone even in the presence of exogenous testosterone.
rFHS and HMG will stimulate the Sertoli cells to produce sperm (HMG will also stimulate the Leydig cells too).
Clomid and nolva will promote the body to elevate both LH and FSH when HCG and HMG are discontinued. This pretty much will spark the pituitary to send these signals to the respective cells to help them jump start things.

But, what about desentization issues with the HCG?
Leydig cell desensitization due to HCG usage is blocked and/or minimized by Nolvadex. This occurs by suppressing HCG's ability to inhibit the conversion of 17 alpha hydroxyprogesterone to testosterone.
I have never seen any other SERM that can make this claim other than nolva.

I think Proviron might be helpful for libido, and even to make the man feel even a bit better.
I am 13 days into my PCT right now and this time I will be adding in Proviron.

[Mrpedigree]

Read allot of the posts here and there is some hard reading for anyone trying for Kidd's and still taking gear ! Like my self
I don't do loads ...but i do have a dabble on the D-bol twice a year..but not to heavy we have been trying for Kidd's for about 5 years now and for the first time at Xmas this year my Mrs fell pregnant whilst i was on the first and only D-boll cycle i had done in about 8 years we thought we had won the lottery because we were just about to throw some money at it( IVf) Then the worst happened and she went and miscarried
Whats really confusing is as soon as i went on the D-Boll she got pregnant after five years of trying
Anybody know what the affect is of just d-boll alone on your sperm Fertility?

[supercell]

Originally Posted by Mrpedigree

Read allot of the posts here and there is some hard reading for anyone trying for Kidd's and still taking gear ! Like my self
I don't do loads ...but i do have a dabble on the D-bol twice a year..but not to heavy we have been trying for Kidd's for about 5 years now and for the first time at Xmas this year my Mrs fell pregnant whilst i was on the first and only D-boll cycle i had done in about 8 years we thought we had won the lottery because we were just about to throw some money at it( IVf) Then the worst happened and she went and miscarried
Whats really confusing is as soon as i went on the D-Boll she got pregnant after five years of trying
Anybody know what the affect is of just d-boll alone on your sperm Fertility?

Pure coincidence mate IMO

J

[supercell]

[QUOTE=hackskii;913665]

Originally Posted by mad_cereal_love

Very nice post mate, hope you don’t mind me elaborating on this idea some.

That high concentration of sperm that is in the testicles is called Intra-Testicular Testosterone (ITT).
As above on cycle FSH, LH and ITT pretty much drop to low amounts. This lack of stimulation to the Leydig cells (LH), the Sertoli cells (FSH) and ITT (lack of endogenous testosterone production) is most likely the reason for steroids and sterility issues.

A typical PCT can get you close, but pretty much does nothing for FSH and those lazy Sertoli cells, after all without sperm pregnancy wont happen.
I can think of 3 different drugs that address the atrophied Sertoli cells that will stimulate them to produce sperm.
HMG (Human Menopausal Gonadotropins)
rFSH (recombinant follicle stimulating hormone)
Clomid fertility drug used on both women and men, in women is promotes ovulation, in men it is used in fertility and to diagnose if one is primary (nuts), or secondary (pituitary) hypogonadism.
Clomid @ 100mg a day for 5 to 7 days doubles LH output, and increases FSH by 20% to 50%.

So, to produce results, one would need to stimulate all of the cells and glands to get back to work and do their jobs.
HCG is an LH analog; it will stimulate the Leydig cells to produce testosterone even in the presence of exogenous testosterone.
rFHS and HMG will stimulate the Sertoli cells to produce sperm (HMG will also stimulate the Leydig cells too).
Clomid and nolva will promote the body to elevate both LH and FSH when HCG and HMG are discontinued. This pretty much will spark the pituitary to send these signals to the respective cells to help them jump start things.

But, what about desentization issues with the HCG?
Leydig cell desensitization due to HCG usage is blocked and/or minimized by Nolvadex. This occurs by suppressing HCG's ability to inhibit the conversion of 17 alpha hydroxyprogesterone to testosterone.
I have never seen any other SERM that can make this claim other than nolva.

I think Proviron might be helpful for libido, and even to make the man feel even a bit better.
I am 13 days into my PCT right now and this time I will be adding in Proviron.

Great post

J

[supercell]

Originally Posted by dutch_scott

sorry if this has been asked but are u at bodypower?

haha, yes mate was there on sunday for half a day due to car malfunction!!

J

[slype]

Hey guys

My missus and I have been trying for a little un for about 4 years (it will be our second) but havent had much luck. In April 2007 I had my sperm tested an it proved to be of decent quality so that wasnt the problem.

Two years later (now!) by wife has decided to proceed with IVF and has arranged for tests to be carried out.
I will be tested for HIV and Hep B & C. My sperm will also be tested again.

My current cycle was to be:
wks 1 - 12 Testeviron 400mg e6d
wks 1 - 12 Equipoise 400mg e6d
wks 1 - 4 Dianabol 100mg ed
wks 1 - 12 Proviron 25mg ed
wks 8 - 14 Winstrol 100mg eod
usual PCT to follow

My query is this: - I am two weeks into my third cycle (5 months since my PCT on my second cycle) and I have got to go for these tests next Friday. As I have not told the wife I am using AAS I was wondering if this will show up in the tests.

If it does, I know she is going to use this as the excuse as to why she cannot conceive even though I have read a lot of posts on here from guys who say their partners have conceived on cycle.

Also, I take it I should stop my cycle where it is at now rather than continuing whilst we undergo the IVF?

Any input is appreciated.

[hackskii]

If your wife is getting IVF then why are you taking gear?
You know for many men you wont be able to concieve.
I would stop the cycle now, even though you wont have the gear clear by next Friday, I would consider some HCG right now.
I would think it is pointless to pay all that money only to have you toss in a spanner into the mix.

Your sperm may be ok now, but over time it no doubt will become compromised.

HMG might be the best bet here, but androgens will be high anyway.

[slype]

Originally Posted by hackskii

If your wife is getting IVF then why are you taking gear?

TBH, although we had discussed IVF I thought it was a long way off until I got a call in work from her today telling me my appointment date and time.!

You know for many men you wont be able to concieve.
I would stop the cycle now, even though you wont have the gear clear by next Friday, I would consider some HCG right now.

How much HCG would you suggest between now and then?

I would think it is pointless to pay all that money only to have you toss in a spanner into the mix.

I agree, if I thought it was imminent I wouldnt of started this cycle, I am kind of annoyed at myself now for a, possibly jeopardising the IVF and b, wasting 2 weeks gear!

Your sperm may be ok now, but over time it no doubt will become compromised.

HMG might be the best bet here, but androgens will be high anyway.

Excuse my ignorance but what is HMG?

[hackskii]

Human Menopausal Gonadotropins
It basicly is 75iu FSH and 75iu LH, and it comes in 150iu each too.

For your sperm to be good, you need intra-testicular testosterone (ITT), FSH, and LH.
Right now, no doubt your LH and FSH are going to be low, this stops the nuts from making sperm and ITT specifically, which stops the sperm from maturing (sort of), and FSH (lack there of) will stop the sperm process too.

Personally I would get off now, and re-schedule the appointment, no sense in waisting your time on a compromise, you are lowering your odds here, and if she is having dificulty getting pregnant then id say you need to do what you need to do to make this happen.

HCG would be a good idea, you will get the nuts to make testosterone and ITT with that, but FSH will be low and withough some HMG you might have a comprmoise even still.
Now if you were clear of the androgens, then clomid and HCG should work well.
But, being on cycle this is just a crap shoot.

[slype]

Originally Posted by hackskii

Human Menopausal Gonadotropins
It basicly is 75iu FSH and 75iu LH, and it comes in 150iu each too.

For your sperm to be good, you need intra-testicular testosterone (ITT), FSH, and LH.
Right now, no doubt your LH and FSH are going to be low, this stops the nuts from making sperm and ITT specifically, which stops the sperm from maturing (sort of), and FSH (lack there of) will stop the sperm process too.

Personally I would get off now, and re-schedule the appointment, no sense in waisting your time on a compromise, you are lowering your odds here, and if she is having dificulty getting pregnant then id say you need to do what you need to do to make this happen.

HCG would be a good idea, you will get the nuts to make testosterone and ITT with that, but FSH will be low and withough some HMG you might have a comprmoise even still.
Now if you were clear of the androgens, then clomid and HCG should work well.
But, being on cycle this is just a crap shoot.

I've just re-scheduled the appointment for the following Friday which will be 2 wks and 2 days since my last jab. It will also give me an extra week to sort out and take the HCG and/or HMG, clomid etc.

very briefly Hackskii, and I apreciate your advice on this btw, could you list what you would suggest I take between now and then? I appreciate you are only giving advice and may or may not be an expert on this but you seem a lot more helpful and informative than most..

[sbeast007]

i dont understand why u have kept doing cycles if u have been trying for a baby mate?
ur only making it harder to concieve

[hackskii]

Sure mate, if it was me, I would start some HCG right now, and I also would be running an AI with that, estrogen is terribly supressive.
You can take some nolva with the HCG but you wont need much because the switch just briefly got switched off, so something like 4 shots of 500iu or 5 shots should be more than enough.
Nolva 20mg ED
Clomid for the two weeks too @ 100mg ED.
If it is going to work, that would get you close, if you had some HMG in there chances are it would be a bit better due to tha added benefits of the FSH (you need that for your sperm).

but if you have not pulled one off in a while the residual left over will probably work fine.
Guys that get vasectomy's still can get women pregnant till the new ejaculation fluids come down the pipe....lol