Should I need to take 25mg Nolvadex daily? - UK-Muscle Body Building Community

SA12 · 07-02-2005, 11:13 PM

Hi guys.

My current cycle:

500mg weekly of test enth (Spilt Wed and Sun) x 10 weeks
First two weeks 30mg dbol daily
Last two weeks 50mg dbol daily

I am also taking 1 nolvadex daily with it.

Should I be doing this? Is this actually benefiting me?

Your opinions please

Cheers

**big** · 07-02-2005, 11:21 PM

Running the nolva is a good and prudent prevention method. Way better than trying to find a cure if the worst should happen. 1/2 or 1 tab a day is just fine.

What's made you decide to run the dbol like that?

SA12 · 07-02-2005, 11:58 PM

Just put a combination of other peoples posts together from the other thread I ran...

Why do you ask?

What would you reccomend as its not to late for me to rethink, I have only just started anyway

**big** · 08-02-2005, 12:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SA12

Just put a combination of other peoples posts together from the other thread I ran...

Why do you ask?

What would you reccomend as its not to late for me to rethink, I have only just started anyway

Just wondering really. Not saying or implying it won't work. It's just more traditional to run the dbol for 4 weeks at the start to kick things off rather than 2 at the start and 2 at the end.

If I was going to change that cycle without changing the quantity of drugs, I would do this:

1-10 Enan 500mg/week
1-4 40mg dbol
nolva 20mg/day

My logic against the 2 weeks start and 2 weeks at end: If you run it for 2 weeks at the start, then you'll get some gains and probably lose some of them again before the test really starts kicking in. And the 2 weeks at the end only serve to add some extra water that will pretty much instantly go when you hit PCT.

**hackskii** · 08-02-2005, 12:27 AM

I know why he is deciding to do it this way.
If he takes the dbol a 1 week after his last shot then he has high levels right up to his start of PCT. The day he stops the dbol is the day he starts his PCT.
I think that would be ok.

I myself would not run the nolvadex during unless you need it.
I feel that gains can be compromised blocking estrogen.
Estrogen raises IGF-1
Estrogen also gives water retention in the muscles but also has a leveragine effect on resistance training.
I also read something else (have to re-read to refresh my memory) about estregen up-regulating androgen receptors. I will see if I can find the article.

So with that said, I think you can hinder gains taking nolvadex. Unless you suffer from gyno then why bother.
Nolvadex wont help water retention.

Some people feel that taking anti-E's during cycle might slow down the negative feedback loop of the HPTA thus making recovery easier but Im not sold on this but there is some common knowledge.

I have never tried this myself and beings I have this problem so bad I am willing to give it a shot.

**big** · 08-02-2005, 12:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hackskii

I know why he is deciding to do it this way.
If he takes the dbol a 1 week after his last shot then he has high levels right up to his start of PCT. The day he stops the dbol is the day he starts his PCT.
I think that would be ok.

Yes as long as he runs the faster acting drug AFTER he finishes the test, that would make some sense I agree. His post made it seem like he was running the dbol the last 2 weeks of the test. I use winny for this personally. I run it the last few weeks of my test cycle, and continue it past the end of the test up until PCT. I personally feel this is a better choice than something that will give more water retention before PCT.

Quote:

So with that said, I think you can hinder gains taking nolvadex. Unless you suffer from gyno then why bother.

I would sure be interested to see any articles that show that nolva hinders gains as I've yet to see any.

winger · 08-02-2005, 03:35 AM

There are alternatives.

**hackskii** · 08-02-2005, 03:51 AM

Big, I agree with the winney.
I have a hard problem with testicular atrophy (more than all).
Now when I ran winstrol during a short cycle, I noticed that winny did nothing (for the time ran) on testicular atrophy.
I now feel that if I ran that at the end or during my Deca (shutdown cycle), I would have recovered better.

The problem I have with winstrol is this: It kills my appitite and gives me some sort of gastrol intestinal problems, bloating. Now, I took it in the morning and many times on an empty stomach and this might be very well the case of the weird gastro problems.

Never done d-bol and am willing to try this out but water retention is a factor in high blood pressure and im sure that this could be problematic.

So with that said, I would probably take something like A-dex for this perticular condition.

I have read some articles on blocking estrogen being couterproductive and I will post when I find the article/articles. I usually dont forget information that I have a passion for and dont save all articles.

Im more of the thought that all meds either go through the kidneys or the liver or both and adding things that wont be productive either cost extra money or can cause unwanted damage to the organs above.

I will see if I can find that article and it may very well be in the article section.

Im am not in agreemtnt nor disagreement with your statment Big.
You know you are one of my favorites on the board.

**big** · 08-02-2005, 09:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hackskii

The problem I have with winstrol is this: It kills my appitite and gives me some sort of gastrol intestinal problems, bloating. Now, I took it in the morning and many times on an empty stomach and this might be very well the case of the weird gastro problems.

Which brand were you on and at what dose? I do remember on one board (I think it might have been this one), that someone else was complaining of the same symptoms with certain brands. But yeah, if something gave me that, I don't think I'd be a fan of using it either!

Quote:

Im more of the thought that all meds either go through the kidneys or the liver or both and adding things that wont be productive either cost extra money or can cause unwanted damage to the organs above.

That's an interesting point of view and certainly valid. However, the liver is extremely resiliant, and everything you take in orally goes through it anyway. Nolva is not particularly liver toxic AFAIK, and everything is relative. I would say a single beer is probably more liver toxic than an entire cycle of nolva ;)

turbo · 08-02-2005, 05:16 PM

Ive heard mixed reports on whether taking nolva affects gains and the general verdict from many experts on other forums was that it doesnt affect gains. I have tried both running nolva throughout a cycle and not throughout cycle and I actually made more gains on the first cycle! So for me it doesnt affect gains.

In my experience nolva does however prevent some water retention if you take it at 25mg a day throughout the cycle. Indeed, from memory i think mick hart recommends something similar in his steroid guides.

Of course, i know some people will now immediately disagree with my personal experience and it wouldnt supprise me if i got a negative rep point for this post! :sigh:

**hackskii** · 08-02-2005, 05:23 PM

Oh common Turbo, I dont disagree with your post at all.

I do disagree that nolvadex comes in 20 mg and not 25 mg, unless you were talking about proviron.

**Aftershock** · 08-02-2005, 05:28 PM

I wouldnt run the nova unless you need to...

Prov is a better option IMO if you want to be prudent about eastrogen, because it upgrades the effectiveness of the test through its afiting for SHGB, so you actually have more FREE test when you use prov..

turbo · 08-02-2005, 05:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hackskii

Oh common Turbo, I dont disagree with your post at all.

im not common!

DB · 08-02-2005, 05:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by turbo

Of course, i know some people will now immediately disagree with my personal experience and it wouldnt supprise me if i got a negative rep point for this post! :sigh:

i love this guy!! lmao!!

The only reason i wouldnt run it as a precaution is that i dont believe puttin drugs into ur body if there not needed..i can deal with abit of water retention...looks better on the scales

turbo · 09-02-2005, 04:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dirty barry

i love this guy!! lmao!!

The only reason i wouldnt run it as a precaution is that i dont believe puttin drugs into ur body if there not needed..i can deal with abit of water retention...looks better on the scales

Yep, but it can psychologically affect some people and they get all worried that they are loosing "gains" when in fact they are just off-loading water.

I did actually stop running nolva mid-way through a test only cycle last year and it was supprising how quickly you start putting the water on.

Its personal preference really whether you want to run it or not throughout.

07-02-2005, 11:13 PM	#1 (permalink)
SA12 Getting HUGE! Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: UK Posts: 1,480	Should I need to take 25mg Nolvadex daily? Hi guys. My current cycle: 500mg weekly of test enth (Spilt Wed and Sun) x 10 weeks First two weeks 30mg dbol daily Last two weeks 50mg dbol daily I am also taking 1 nolvadex daily with it. Should I be doing this? Is this actually benefiting me? Your opinions please Cheers

08-02-2005, 12:27 AM	#5 (permalink)
hackskii UK-Muscle Moderator Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Sunny Southern California U.S.A. Posts: 30,087	I know why he is deciding to do it this way. If he takes the dbol a 1 week after his last shot then he has high levels right up to his start of PCT. The day he stops the dbol is the day he starts his PCT. I think that would be ok. I myself would not run the nolvadex during unless you need it. I feel that gains can be compromised blocking estrogen. Estrogen raises IGF-1 Estrogen also gives water retention in the muscles but also has a leveragine effect on resistance training. I also read something else (have to re-read to refresh my memory) about estregen up-regulating androgen receptors. I will see if I can find the article. So with that said, I think you can hinder gains taking nolvadex. Unless you suffer from gyno then why bother. Nolvadex wont help water retention. Some people feel that taking anti-E's during cycle might slow down the negative feedback loop of the HPTA thus making recovery easier but Im not sold on this but there is some common knowledge. I have never tried this myself and beings I have this problem so bad I am willing to give it a shot. __________________ Power over others is weakness disguised as strength. Scott

08-02-2005, 03:51 AM	#8 (permalink)
hackskii UK-Muscle Moderator Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Sunny Southern California U.S.A. Posts: 30,087	Big, I agree with the winney. I have a hard problem with testicular atrophy (more than all). Now when I ran winstrol during a short cycle, I noticed that winny did nothing (for the time ran) on testicular atrophy. I now feel that if I ran that at the end or during my Deca (shutdown cycle), I would have recovered better. The problem I have with winstrol is this: It kills my appitite and gives me some sort of gastrol intestinal problems, bloating. Now, I took it in the morning and many times on an empty stomach and this might be very well the case of the weird gastro problems. Never done d-bol and am willing to try this out but water retention is a factor in high blood pressure and im sure that this could be problematic. So with that said, I would probably take something like A-dex for this perticular condition. I have read some articles on blocking estrogen being couterproductive and I will post when I find the article/articles. I usually dont forget information that I have a passion for and dont save all articles. Im more of the thought that all meds either go through the kidneys or the liver or both and adding things that wont be productive either cost extra money or can cause unwanted damage to the organs above. I will see if I can find that article and it may very well be in the article section. Im am not in agreemtnt nor disagreement with your statment Big. You know you are one of my favorites on the board. __________________ Power over others is weakness disguised as strength. Scott

08-02-2005, 05:23 PM	#11 (permalink)
hackskii UK-Muscle Moderator Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Sunny Southern California U.S.A. Posts: 30,087	Oh common Turbo, I dont disagree with your post at all. I do disagree that nolvadex comes in 20 mg and not 25 mg, unless you were talking about proviron. __________________ Power over others is weakness disguised as strength. Scott

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

07-02-2005, 11:21 PM	#2 (permalink)
big UK-Muscle Moderator Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: The only side effect of steroids is GREATNESS Posts: 7,099	Running the nolva is a good and prudent prevention method. Way better than trying to find a cure if the worst should happen. 1/2 or 1 tab a day is just fine. What's made you decide to run the dbol like that?

07-02-2005, 11:58 PM	#3 (permalink)
SA12 Getting HUGE! Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: UK Posts: 1,480	Just put a combination of other peoples posts together from the other thread I ran... Why do you ask? What would you reccomend as its not to late for me to rethink, I have only just started anyway

08-02-2005, 03:35 AM	#7 (permalink)
winger JW's Left Hand Man! Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Southern California, USA Posts: 14,913 Blog Entries: 1	There are alternatives.

08-02-2005, 05:16 PM	#10 (permalink)
turbo Getting HUGE! Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 1,119	Ive heard mixed reports on whether taking nolva affects gains and the general verdict from many experts on other forums was that it doesnt affect gains. I have tried both running nolva throughout a cycle and not throughout cycle and I actually made more gains on the first cycle! So for me it doesnt affect gains. In my experience nolva does however prevent some water retention if you take it at 25mg a day throughout the cycle. Indeed, from memory i think mick hart recommends something similar in his steroid guides. Of course, i know some people will now immediately disagree with my personal experience and it wouldnt supprise me if i got a negative rep point for this post! :sigh:

08-02-2005, 05:28 PM	#12 (permalink)
Aftershock UK-Muscle Moderator Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 4,267	I wouldnt run the nova unless you need to... Prov is a better option IMO if you want to be prudent about eastrogen, because it upgrades the effectiveness of the test through its afiting for SHGB, so you actually have more FREE test when you use prov..