Gynecomastia-Male Breast Development. - Page 4 - UK-Muscle Body Building Community

ba baracuss · 13-02-2009, 02:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cap'n Beefy

I had small lumps develop last year. A pal gave me a big pot of tamoxifen and said take 40mg a day until they've gone.
Nothing on any website backed up this approach, but he was right, by jingo.

However, some months later, this has not worked a second time, and I have small, not quite central to the nipple lumpy bits, both sides, but more so on the right. The weird thing is that they are sensitive some days but not others. I am still bridging, so not short of test, and have taken the tamoxifen every day since first starting them.

The problem is now I am successfully dieting, I can't tell whether there may be more to them than first thought, or whether I simply have some stubborn (AKA the last bit to come off) fat on my lower chest, as I do on the sides of my torso. These two "fatty" areas feel similar when felt between two fingers, but is there a more conclusive way to tell breast tissue? There is no "disc" evident.

Yours, slightly panicky,

Cap'n B

Nolva won't properly deal with it mate, it will just occupy the estrogen receptors in the breast tissue.

You need an AI like adex to prevent the estrogen forming in the first place, and maybe remove any gyno, but letro is the strongest and best at removing by all accounts.

Plenty of people better qualified to advise in more depth than me though.

Hellbound · 13-02-2009, 03:54 PM

I have some gyno, so do my brothers but we're all fat heffers at the moment. I remember a few years ago I was around 11 stone (I'm 6'2") and still had a lil cone nippleage going on. At the moment I feel the only remedy is to get as much muscle on as possible with very low body fat%. If my nipples still bother me when I'm ripped I'm going to go under the knife as I'd rather deal with it then let it effect my quality of life.

**hackskii** · 13-02-2009, 05:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by estfna

What's the current thought on running a course with Deca in it?
Can Novlva be taken to stop the gyno? I've heard some saying Deca can some how interact with Nolva to produce progesterone gyno.

Also what is the difference between normal and progesterone gyno?

Yes, nolva is said to upregulate the progesterone receptors, sylar is better at this one than me.
I was always under the impression a DHT dirivitive drug would be a good idea to run with deca, something like masteron, proviron, or winstrol.
I like the synergy in that TBH.
I run test in all my cycles.

ba baracuss · 13-02-2009, 05:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hackskii

Yes, nolva is said to upregulate the progesterone receptors, sylar is better at this one than me.
I was always under the impression a DHT dirivitive drug would be a good idea to run with deca, something like masteron, proviron, or winstrol.
I like the synergy in that TBH.
I run test in all my cycles.

I've read around this quite a bit and it's confusing.

Deca, tren and oxy are progestins and nolva is said to upregulate PGR, whatever that means exactly

PGR gyno is apparently estrogen gyno that's been aggravated by PGR, so if you can stop the estrogen with an AI you should be ok.

Hopefully Sylar or anyone else can help out here some more.

Sylar · 13-02-2009, 07:00 PM

The way i understand it is (and i may be wrong lol..) - Tren for example, does not aromatise in the body, but does convert to a metabolite that display a very strong binding affinity to the PgR, which is slightly stonger than progesterone itself - Nolva upregulates the progesterone receptor, so can exacerbate progesterone related gyno issues when running 19-nor progestins like Tren, Deca etc.

As for progestenic gyno, Progestins seem to augment the stimulatory effect of oestrogens on the mammary tissue and there is a stong synergy between oestrogen and progesterone, so running an AI to lower circulating levels of oestrogen may hep to decrease the chances of developing progesterone related gyno.

Progestins have also been shown to have a stimulatory effect on (PRL-R) mRNA which is the prolactin receptor by increasing PRL-R protein, so runing a dopaminergic like Pramipexole, Cabaser etc with the AI as a preventive measure is also be a good idea IMO, or keep them both close to hand, whatever floats your boat...

**hackskii** · 13-02-2009, 07:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sylar

The way i understand it is (and i may be wrong lol..) - Tren for example, does not aromatise in the body, but does convert to a metabolite that display a very strong binding affinity to the PgR, which is slightly stonger than progesterone itself - Nolva upregulates the progesterone receptor, so can exacerbate progesterone related gyno issues when running 19-nor progestins like Tren, Deca etc.

As for progestenic gyno, Progestins seem to augment the stimulatory effect of oestrogens on the mammary tissue and there is a stong synergy between oestrogen and progesterone, so running an AI to lower circulating levels of oestrogen may hep to decrease the chances of developing progesterone related gyno.

Progestins have also been shown to have a stimulatory effect on (PRL-R) mRNA which is the prolactin receptor by increasing PRL-R protein, so runing a dopaminergic like Pramipexole, Cabaser etc with the AI as a preventive measure is also be a good idea IMO, or keep them both close to hand, whatever floats your boat...

Anyone else get a bonner from that like I did?

Yes, I would suspect running an AI if you are gyno prone for tren or deca would be a good idea.
I still think DHT opposes progesterone, but to what degree I am not sure.

Nice post Lloyd

Sylar · 13-02-2009, 07:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hackskii

I still think DHT opposes progesterone, but to what degree I am not sure.

Yeah, i think so too mate.

I'm starting a UG combo mix from Sunday which contains per ml: 200mg Test E - 100mg Tren E & 100mg Mast E.

I like the synergy between the above compounds, especially with the Mast being a DHT derivative. Can't wait to crack the vial open!

**hackskii** · 14-02-2009, 12:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sylar

Yeah, i think so too mate.

I'm starting a UG combo mix from Sunday which contains per ml: 200mg Test E - 100mg Tren E & 100mg Mast E.

I like the synergy between the above compounds, especially with the Mast being a DHT derivative. Can't wait to crack the vial open!

That sounds like a nice combo gear mate.
I love the synergy between those, sadly though it turns me into a maniac in the sex drive dept, not sure why but it is freaky.

alex.p · 22-02-2009, 12:14 PM

I got some gyno on the rebound from last cycle during pct, ended up being about the size of a pea...

Once pct finished I started running letro, been on about 4 weeks now, almost 5 and although the lumps gone down there is still a small lump there, maybe half a flattened pea

Anyone think worth carrying on the letro or is it probably as small as it'll get - letro will only reduce not eliminate right?

Also after reading a few posts in this an AI is a certainty to run with cycles now to prevent it getting any worse? Std adex at 0.5mg/e3d ok or does dose it have to be increased because of existing gyno?

**hackskii** · 22-02-2009, 11:38 PM

I would start with the adex @ .5 EOD, and if gyno flairs then ED.

heavyweight · 23-02-2009, 12:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hackskii

I would start with the adex @ .5 EOD, and if gyno flairs then ED.

I read somewhere on this forum that u can get surgery for free on the nhs in the uk (realising u might not know above as from the usa), is this true? i thought i also read that u or a friend does surgery (is this wrong!). Also where would u recommend me going to have this surgery done well and obviously as cheap as possible (as i am not rich yet!)

alex.p · 28-02-2009, 10:29 PM

Has anyone here run letro over a month to reverse gyno and got results?

Am 5 weeks into running it and still a small lump - is there a max.time should run it for? Am trying to start a cycle in a fortnight but want this sorted first

cheers

**hackskii** · 28-02-2009, 11:26 PM

How much are you running?

Tall · 28-02-2009, 11:42 PM

Stumbled across this the other day from a thread link Magic put up on someones log.

It's a Japanese study from the 70s which is talking about how Epistane/Epistanol is better than Masteron at reducing Gyno.

Quote:

2 3-Epithio-5-androstan-17ß-ol in Treatment of Gynecomastia

OSAHIKO ABE, M.D.¹, SOICHI KUMAOKA, M.D.² and HIROSHI YAMAMOTO, M.D.³

¹ Department of Surgery, National Cancer Center Hospital Tokyo, Japan
² Endocrinology Division, National Cancer Center Research Institute Tokyo, Japan
³³ Department of Surgery, National Cancer Center Hospital Tokyo, Japan

Received November 19, 1973;

1. The clinical effect of epitiostanol, a new anti-estrogenagent (2,3-epithio-5a-androstan-17ß-ol) against gynecomastiawas studied in comparison with dromostanolone propionate infifty-four patients ranging from twenty to fifty years in agewithout previous history of hormone therapy and with normalliver function. The experiment was performed for eight weeksby double blind methods in three dosage groups, epithiostanol10 mg, and 20 mg and dromostanolone propionate 50 mg.
2. Epithiostanol20 mg was most effective with regards to effecton mass sizeand tenderness, (effective in 96%, 20/21), followedby 10 mgepitiostanol (effective in 89%, 16/18) and dromostanolonepropionate50 mg (effective in 89%, 16/18) in descending order.No sideeffects were observed in any of the three groups.
3. Basedon the results of the present study, epitiostanol isconcludedto be at least as effective as dromostanolone propionateagainstgynecomastia and to be safe from the viewpoint of sideeffects.A satisfactory therapeutical effect on gynecomastiacan be expectedwith a weekly dosage of 20 mg of epitiostanolfor an administrationperiod of between five to eight weeks.

TaintedSoul · 01-03-2009, 01:28 AM

Doesnt winny help gyno a little? could be wrong not sure.

And what does Masteron do?

Oh and I've been running letro since monday and I'm still horny. Everyone says it destroys that.

13-02-2009, 03:54 PM	#47 (permalink)
Hellbound Newbie Trainer Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 2	Re: Gynecomastia-Male Breast Development. I have some gyno, so do my brothers but we're all fat heffers at the moment. I remember a few years ago I was around 11 stone (I'm 6'2") and still had a lil cone nippleage going on. At the moment I feel the only remedy is to get as much muscle on as possible with very low body fat%. If my nipples still bother me when I'm ripped I'm going to go under the knife as I'd rather deal with it then let it effect my quality of life.

13-02-2009, 07:00 PM	#50 (permalink)
Sylar Banned Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 3,300	Re: Gynecomastia-Male Breast Development. The way i understand it is (and i may be wrong lol..) - Tren for example, does not aromatise in the body, but does convert to a metabolite that display a very strong binding affinity to the PgR, which is slightly stonger than progesterone itself - Nolva upregulates the progesterone receptor, so can exacerbate progesterone related gyno issues when running 19-nor progestins like Tren, Deca etc. As for progestenic gyno, Progestins seem to augment the stimulatory effect of oestrogens on the mammary tissue and there is a stong synergy between oestrogen and progesterone, so running an AI to lower circulating levels of oestrogen may hep to decrease the chances of developing progesterone related gyno. Progestins have also been shown to have a stimulatory effect on (PRL-R) mRNA which is the prolactin receptor by increasing PRL-R protein, so runing a dopaminergic like Pramipexole, Cabaser etc with the AI as a preventive measure is also be a good idea IMO, or keep them both close to hand, whatever floats your boat...

22-02-2009, 12:14 PM	#54 (permalink)
alex.p Gym Addict Join Date: May 2007 Location: London Posts: 178	Re: Gynecomastia-Male Breast Development. I got some gyno on the rebound from last cycle during pct, ended up being about the size of a pea... Once pct finished I started running letro, been on about 4 weeks now, almost 5 and although the lumps gone down there is still a small lump there, maybe half a flattened pea Anyone think worth carrying on the letro or is it probably as small as it'll get - letro will only reduce not eliminate right? Also after reading a few posts in this an AI is a certainty to run with cycles now to prevent it getting any worse? Std adex at 0.5mg/e3d ok or does dose it have to be increased because of existing gyno?

22-02-2009, 11:38 PM	#55 (permalink)
hackskii UK-Muscle Moderator Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Sunny Southern California U.S.A. Posts: 30,050	Re: Gynecomastia-Male Breast Development. I would start with the adex @ .5 EOD, and if gyno flairs then ED. __________________ Power over others is weakness disguised as strength. Scott

28-02-2009, 10:29 PM	#57 (permalink)
alex.p Gym Addict Join Date: May 2007 Location: London Posts: 178	Re: Gynecomastia-Male Breast Development. Has anyone here run letro over a month to reverse gyno and got results? Am 5 weeks into running it and still a small lump - is there a max.time should run it for? Am trying to start a cycle in a fortnight but want this sorted first cheers

28-02-2009, 11:26 PM	#58 (permalink)
hackskii UK-Muscle Moderator Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Sunny Southern California U.S.A. Posts: 30,050	Re: Gynecomastia-Male Breast Development. How much are you running? __________________ Power over others is weakness disguised as strength. Scott

01-03-2009, 01:28 AM	#60 (permalink)
TaintedSoul The resident dirty Saffir! Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 9,033	Re: Gynecomastia-Male Breast Development. Doesnt winny help gyno a little? could be wrong not sure. And what does Masteron do? Oh and I've been running letro since monday and I'm still horny. Everyone says it destroys that.

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