UK-Muscle Body Building Community - Bodybuilding Forum
 
 

Go Back   UK-Muscle Body Building Community - Bodybuilding Forum > Steroids and Supplementation > Steroid and Testosterone information


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread
Old 31-12-2008, 03:19 PM   #1 (permalink)
SD
Formerly known as SportDr
 
SD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Kent, UK
Posts: 4,796
Total: 11
Clomid, Nolva, HCG whats the difference??

There are a lot of posts regarding PCT, Hackski has done a great one which is a sticky but I thought I would add to them by explaining the differences between the three most used compounds in layman's terms, i.e what do they do for you! I have not included AI's here.

Source for info Wikipedia, steroid.com & Metamorphoses.com

Clomid aka Clomifene
Clomid is a selective estrogen receptor modulator (SERM) and can be used during a cycle to prevent gyno (male breasts) or post cycle to aid recovery of the bodies natural testosterone production.

It is an estrogen blocker (antagonist), it binds to estrogen receptors in the body and makes them inactive to the effects of circulating estrogen caused by aromatisation (conversion) of testosterone to estrogen. Clomid is said to be a weaker compound however mg to mg than Nolva for anti-estrogen purposes, 150mg of Clomid achieving what 20mg of Nolva could. Of particular note is its inhibitory (blocking) effect on the gonadatroph cells in the pituitary gland, located in the brain. These cells release FSH (follicular stimulating hormone) which tells your testes to produce more sperm and LH (luteinising hormone) which instruct the leydig cells in your testes to produce more testosterone.

It is also a hypothalamus, breast tissue and bone tissue activator (agonist) and improves good cholesterol (HDL).

So Summarized, Clomid will block the negative effects of estrogen in your body and it will fool the pituitary gland into telling your testicles to get back to work!


Nolvadex aka Tamoxifen
Nolva is a selective estrogen receptor modulator (SERM) and can be used during a cycle to prevent gyno (male breasts) and to prevent some water retention.

Nolva competitively binds to estrogen receptors on tissue targets and inhibits estrogen effects. It is a non steroidal agent with potent antiestrogenic properties which compete with estrogen for binding sites in breast and other tissues.

Nolva does not have the same effect on the pituitary that Clomid has but it is said to increase the LH response to LHRH (Leuteinising Hormone Releasing Hormone) and therefore increasing LH itself. The two drugs are similar in their action but subtly different also at a chemical level, so they can work synergistically (in combination) together.

So Summarized, Nolva will block the negative effects of estrogen in your body from gyno to water retention at the receptor site level and could help restore LH levels.

HCG (Human Chorionic Gonadtrophin)

When AAS are put into a male body, the body's natural negative-feedback loops cause the body to shut down its own production of testosterone via shutdown of the hypothalamic-pituitary-gonadal axis (HPGA). High levels of AASs that mimic the body's natural testosterone trigger the hypothalamus to shut down its production of gonadtrophin releasing hormone (GnRH) from the hypothalamus. Without GnRH, the pituitary gland stops releasing luteinising hormone (LH). LH normally travels from the pituitary via the blood stream to the testes, where it triggers the production and release of testosterone. Without LH, the testes shut down their production of testosterone, causing testicular atrophy.

HCG mimics LH (luteinising hormone) in the body, which post cycle is very low to none existent thanks to high testosterone levels telling your brain to switch off production! So by injecting HCG, the testes will be fooled into re-starting testosterone production and will also regain there pre-cycle size. Used for too long, or too high a dose this too will eventually lead to shutdown and desensitization of the testes to LH making recovery harder.

HCG will not improve spermatogenisis (sperm production) or volume as it does not increase FSH levels although once natural testosterone production is restored this will stimulate recovery of it.

So Summarized, HCG acts like LH, telling the testes to produce natural testosterone again and it will also recover the testicles size.


Summary
You can see that the three compounds are very different and how it could be necessary to use at the very least Clomid in every cycle. In the case of severe shutdown by Deca for example, HCG may be additionally required to recover natural test production, it may also be used throughout the cycle for 'cosmetic' reasons. If there is heavy aromatisation then Nolva could be added to the Clomid as an extra precaution against gyno.

hth

SD

Last edited by SD; 02-01-2009 at 10:35 AM.
SD is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 31-12-2008, 03:26 PM   #2 (permalink)
Shut up and Squat
 
LiftHeavy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 961
Total: 21
Re: Clomid, Nolva, HCG whats the difference??

good post thanks
LiftHeavy is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 31-12-2008, 03:54 PM   #3 (permalink)
Newbie Trainer
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Newcastle
Posts: 15
Total: 10
Re: Clomid, Nolva, HCG whats the difference??

Excellent post mate, nice one;)
Reverb is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 31-12-2008, 08:19 PM   #4 (permalink)
SD
Formerly known as SportDr
 
SD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Kent, UK
Posts: 4,796
Total: 11
Re: Clomid, Nolva, HCG whats the difference??

Ok checked my spelling for Pithead lol

SD
SD is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 01-01-2009, 04:10 AM   #5 (permalink)
Not getting HUGE!
 
Pithead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,548
Total: 38
Re: Clomid, Nolva, HCG whats the difference??

PMSL, you make me feel bad now, great post for us laymen though. I've read about it before but this is a nice reaffirmer. repadidooda's
Pithead is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 01-01-2009, 01:10 PM   #6 (permalink)
it rubs the lotion on its skin---or it gets the hose again
 
paulo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: bonnie scotland
Posts: 1,548
Total: 10
Re: Clomid, Nolva, HCG whats the difference??

good post and simplified for ease of understanding--well done sticky?
paulo is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2009, 10:37 AM   #7 (permalink)
SD
Formerly known as SportDr
 
SD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Kent, UK
Posts: 4,796
Total: 11
Re: Clomid, Nolva, HCG whats the difference??

*Added some info to CLomid and Nolva*

Steroid.com indicates that Nolva can raise LH levels by increasing response to LHRH. This was also thought to be tru by Hackskii.

SD
SD is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2009, 10:39 AM   #8 (permalink)
MXD
5% off myprotein.co.uk discount code = MP27405 / BSD code = bsd62
 
MXD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Burmz
Posts: 3,276
Blog Entries: 1
Total: 244
Re: Clomid, Nolva, HCG whats the difference??

I thought this was a question for a moment then and was ready to tell the n00b wholeheartedly to use the search function

Good post m8, kudos
MXD is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Clomid, Nolvadex and HCG in Post Cycle Recovery debodeebs Steroid and Testosterone information 6 16-01-2010 10:15 AM
HCG on cycle Pscarb Steroid and Testosterone information 30 09-07-2007 12:09 AM
Clomid and nolvadex hackskii Steroid and Testosterone information 3 02-04-2006 06:49 PM
Different short cycles? LeRoy Steroid and Testosterone information 14 16-03-2006 11:24 AM
Clomid, Nolva, or HCG for PCT reveremuscle Steroid and Testosterone information 13 13-02-2005 07:37 PM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 03:32 AM.
 



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2010, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.3.0
All information contained within this site is for educational purposes only.
We do not endorse the Buying or selling of illegal substances nor do we promote the use of them.

UK-Muscle.co.uk takes no responsibility for any advertisers, thier content or products sold. All products sold by ANY advertisers are seen to be 'Research Items' only and not intended for Human Use.