p0d007

i've had been training for about 4 years, i'm 6'2 and weight 200 lbs, i work out 3 to 4 times a week. the cycle is at follows

deca 400 mg for 8 weeks
sustanon 500 mg for 8 weeks
20 mg of nolvadex every other day
3 weeks after last shot i'm going to take 100mg of clomid every day for 2 weeks.

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Godzilla

O.K
First off I'd extend the cycle to 10weeks because the sus and deca take an average of 3-4 weeks to kick in.

1-10 (Sus 500mg/week)
1-10 (Deca 400mg/week)
1-13+ (.25 Arimidex/day)
14-17 (20mg/day Nolvedex)
14-15 (100mg/day Clomid)
15-17 (50mg/day Clomid)

For PCT Use 20mg of Nolvedex/day up to 3-4 weeks. Also use Clomid at 100mg/day for the first week and 50mg for the rest up to 3-4 weeks.

hackskii

Clomid should be run for 3-4 weeks.
300 day 1
100 day for 10 days or even 15 days.
50 for 10 to 15 days.
If you are younger you might be ok with 21 days.

I dont run nolva unless I need it. But that is just me.

I like to use creatine and tribulis post cycle too. Again, just me!

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Scott


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Godzilla

Trib works really well from what I've been hearing for PCT. 5grams a day of Trib along side your Clomid and Nolvedex.

winger

Why not do a tes only cylce. I have always read that, that is best for the first cycle. Eather cyp or enenthate.

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Godzilla

Winger your absolutely right! I was actually going to post that lol. Use Test Enth instead of Sus. I posted an article on another board a while back, I'll see if I can dig it up. Test and Deca is a good beginner cycle IMHO, although lots of people (including myself) used Test only for a first cycle. I'm gonna go see if I can dig that article up.

Godzilla

Sustanon 250 or is it less?
Yes I stole this from another board, because I think it's a great Article!

From: John Maynard [roid@roid.com]
Subject: HOW TO CYCLE SUSTANON

HOW TO CYCLE SUSTANON
=====================


The Proper Way to Cycle SUSTANON (has been floating around for years)

One of the most misunderstood ideals when it comes to Sustanon is how to properly use it in a cycle. There is no wrong way, but there is a best way to administer proper dosages
so you can fully benifit from the esters in Sustanon.

Sustanon was developed for the primary reason of hormone replacement, and because of the mix of esters most patients only needed one shot a month to keep their hormone levels
balanced. Because of this design, the bodybuilder will not recieve proper doseages at once or twice a week injections. Your blood levels will fluctuate up and down continually,
which is not what you want while on a cycle. You want stable levels to give your body the best chance it can have to build plenty of muscle.

All test is the same, but once only the ester is removed. People that say test is test are wrong unless you are assuming that the ester has already been removed. I have had plenty
of different results fromt the different tests I have used, as well as I am sure you have too. The secret to making sus work correctly, is timing the esters so the blood levels do
not fluctuate.

I will assume that everyone knows how an ester works and why one is added to the parent testosterone. With sustanon, you have 4 esters:30mg of prop60mg of phenylprop60mg of
isocaproate100mg of deconateCombined to give you 250mg. Now everyone knows for themselves how much test they should take due to previous cycles or no cycles at all. Lets take each
ester and see how long they will stay active in the body. 30mg of prop--Prop needs to be injected at least every other day to get the full benifits of the test. I think every
third day is a little too long to wait, although some people may disagree. Now lets say you are doing a prop only cycle and injecting 30mg twice a week. You can see already that
is a waste of gear. If you inject 30mg of prop twice a week you are totally wasting your time. You will NOT grow off of this, so you can basically take sus and knock it down to 220mg an amp if you are injecting once or twice a week. 60 mg of phenylprop--Phenylprop is not that much different than prop. You can get away with injecting the phenylprop ester every third day. Anyone that has taken nandrolone with a phenylprop ester knows that it is shorter acting and must be injected twice a week (for example, getwoods powder). If injected twice a week, then lets even cushion the amount, you will have all 120 mg in one week.

To recap, so far this is what you get the first week---180 mg of test in your system. If you ask me that was a waste of two amps. That is barely enough to supress the axis, and that is about all you will have happen if you inject 180mg of test per week. Now lets look at the longer acting esters in sus. 60mg of Isocaproate--Isocaproate will give you a duration of about a week before it is let go. This is not bad, but at 60 mg you are still not getting enough test to make it worth the time. 100mg of Deconate--Here is the daddy of the four esters. This is the same ester that is used in Decca-Durabolin. The decanoate ester should really average out at 2 weeks, but has been said to last up to 3.This ester was added at a 100mg dose to balance out the quicker acting esters used in sustanon.

If we review one more time, we can see roughly how much test we will have in our body per week when we use sus, and hopefully you can see it is very low. You can pretty much take
out the prop and phenylprop until about week 3 or 4, because once the other esters release the test and it gets time to build up in the system, the prop and phenylprop is useless.
Not until around week six are you going to get your test levels high enough to do any good, and if you are on a 10 week cycle and start tapering week 8, then your test have been only
relatively high for about 2-3 weeks. Call me crazy, but that is not at all what I want in a cycle. Every test cycle should be started high to hit those receptors hard, and I dont even taper at the end (but that is a different story).

The numbers that BIGDAWG and I worked on basically show that your test levels will never at one time be stable for more that a couple of weeks. Why do you think that people say they have less bloat on sus and less sides. There is so little of the short acting test in your system at one time that it is impossible to get any bloat or side effects at all. So you ask, well what is the best way to take sus then? First I would answer dont buy it.
If you really want to use a 4 blend test then buy some of the old omna (not the new ones), they have more shorter acting tests in them and the blood levels will stay more equal.

If you dont believe me, ask anyone that has used the old omna and they will tell you they got quite a bit of bloat from it. Reason being is the shorter acting esters in the omna build up your blood levels quicker, hence you have the bloat factor. If someone doesnt like my first answer, then I will give them a second, "inject the sus everyday or at the least every other day." I usually get the "wholly ****, thats crazy!!!" answer. I usually tell them back, no its not crazy, its science. The actual science of sus combined with a bodybuilders needs equal injecting every day.

People seem to forget about the esters and think they are injecting all of 1750mg each week and getting every mg of it. Trust me folks, I am not talking about injecting 7 amps
a week for 10 weeks, I am suggesting injecting an amp a day for 3 weeks, and letting the esters do thier work after that. When you crunch the numbers, for the first two weeks you
are really only getting the prop, phenylprop, and a little of the isocaproate. Maybe about 700-750 mg for the first two weeks, and for weeks after that when all of the isocaproate and deconate kick in you will stay aroung 600-800mg for weeks following the first couple. You have a perfect taper, if you are into that, and stable test levels. If you go to eod, it will vary a bit, but not enough to really make too much of a difference.

Start off the cycle with 5 weeks of dbol while using the sus, and when you are done with the sustanon, then immediately start injecting two anabolics like eq and decca, or decca and primo/winny. This is a cycle that a lot of the pros are using called front end loading with an anabolic taper. I guinea pigged this idea when BIGDAWG and I were discussing it many months back, and damn it was a really good cycle. Not as good as 1000mg of aratest a week, but still a pretty good cycle. I have cycled sus/omna both ways, and trained relatively the same with the same kind of diet. The difference in the two cycles were like
night and day, about a 15-17 pound difference, and two amps of omna a week was my first cycle too. You know, the one you are supposed to grow the most off of because of the virgin receptors. So test may be test, but you will not get the same results from every ester out there if you dont know how to time them. If you are thinking of a sus/omna cycle, give this a try. I promise you will not be disappointed.


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shovel man

1 amp per day for 3 weeks if i had of read this before my first cycle no way would i have used sust godzilla that was a good post you just put up there mate the mods should stick that up in the forum that would put alot of newbies off using sust for a first cycle its to late for me just done 10 weeks & already got my next cycle of sust i think alot of us newbies go for sust cos thats what we get told is the best to take for good gains (its got 4 diffrent tests in it you get huge al have some of that)thats all most here then away they go & start injecting then reading instead of other way round (i hold my hand up i am guilty of that to )

hackskii

Good post.
I dont think ed would be a good idea tho.
What if it jacked your blood pressure up and you had to get off of the gear?
At this point you might be looking at a month of high blood pressure to deal with and in this time your kidney's would be edging into the failure mode.
Maybe you could just front load for a few weeks like 2.5 weeks then back to 500

Ive read the androgenic front load and the anabolic taper before on Chemical Enhancement.
It kindof made sense reading it in the bood.
I just didnt like the idea of the Deca all by itself with no test in it at the end.

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Scott


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Godzilla

That's funny Shovel Man that was my first cycle too, they told me there was 4 different Steroids and that it's the Bomb lol. First off, there is really nothing wrong with injecting Sus 2X week IMHO, you'll see gains. I'm just pointing out how to use it properly considering the Different Esters, and I think there is better alternatives for Newby's then Sus. ED for 3 weeks "DON'T DO IT" unless you have a bunch of cycles under your belt, stick with 2X or 3X week and you'll still grow.