Gains

Would it be possible to use something like Sust or Sten for long periods (i.e. years) without shutting down or triggering serious side effects?

I'm not referring to the kind of doses that any serious bb'er would use, but more along the lines of a much smaller dose (say, 50-100mg max) that would be just enough to keep free test levels in the high-normal range?

I know that doing this wouldn't give anywhere near the kind of gains that most people who opt for gear are aiming for, but I've been doing a fair bit of reading about testosterone and it seems to me that there are a lot of other benefits to having permanently high testosterone that doesn't stray into "unnatural" territory; natural healthy testosterone levels can vary from 200 ng/dl right up to over 1000 ng/dl from one bloke to the next, and I'd rather be nearer the top end of that scale if possible.

I know that Sust is used as a form of HRT to top-up blokes with unusually low test levels and from what I've read, they have monthly injections for an indefinite period of time, with no PCT or equivalent that I could see.
I'm therefore wondering if a bloke with test levels already in the "normal" range could effectively bump his levels up a bit by doing the same.

You're probably thinking "FFS either stay natural or read some more and plan out a proper cycle with PCT", and maybe you're right, but I'd be grateful of any info/advice all the same.

mars1960

Sustanon, my fav subject, now don't get me started..
I cruise on sust year round, so shutdown really isn't an issue.

Pscarb

any synthetic steroid will shut you down even at 100mg per week as the body will detect its presence and suppress then eventually shutdown the HPTA....

yes you can use a low amount of test to maintain base levels although sus is not the best choice enthanate or undecanoate are a better choice but do not kid yourself into think this will not effect your HPTA as it will....

mars1960

I said don't get me started.
Why would it not be the best choice? if you want long injection times and stable serum levels sust would be the best choice i would think.

Pscarb

not really mate as single ester test like undecanoate is a better choice as there is no spike (however small) from the shorter esters in Sus250...don't mis-interprete what i am saying sus can be used but from what i have read undecanoate is a better more stable choice....i will let you know when i do HRT

mars1960

There's a spike with them all paul, though yes i do agree if you could get undecanoate or even better the neb or buc, then it's a better choice, but if you had a choice between E/CYP or sust and only wanted to jab once wk your serum levels will be more stable over that seven days.

I'll post a link in a bit to a scientific graph showing the logarithmic curve of release for prop/sust and enanthate.

mars1960

Click on the top one ashley grossman, page 681.

Pscarb

which top one mate?

i have looked into the injectable undecanoate and many in the field look more favourably on undecanoate than Enthanate for HRT

mars1960

Yes i know thats what i said in my previous post

Sorry me stupid, this one

http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en...nG=Search&meta=

ba baracuss

Gents - if, for any reason, you stopped your 'cruise' - would you be completely shutdown and in a worse mess than if you had done a higher dose in a conventional cycle?

I'm presuming yes, as otherwise everyone would do it, right?

So someone who is cruising has no intentions of ever stopping, presumably?

beequeth

I've bridged for peroids (months) using Sust and Enanthate at different times, and IMO the Enanthate was far more stable in terms of mood, libido and general feeling of well being, even at lower doses. Strangely, I do get more chest and shoulder spots with Enanthate though which suggests a hormonal imbalance.

Sust always left me feeling like I should increase the the weekly dose.

No difference though in terms of maintainence of gains or appetite for training.

Pscarb

yes mate of course you would be shutdown using any steroid for long periods will cause shutdown

ba baracuss

Yeah I gathered that would be the case - what I meant was - would you be MORE shutdown than if you had done say 10 weeks of test and then come off? Or is shutdown shutdown, end of story?

What I'm saying is - if there's no difference, why don't more people cruise all the time? And if the shutdown is worse, presumably people who cruise have no intention of coming off at all?

Did you not stay on for ages yourself for a long time and suffer afterwards boss?

Forgive my naivete - I'm just curious!

the_muss

The only reason why I can think that you'd want to do this is to creep in under the upper limits of drug test, but i hope this is not the case.

I would have thought that it would be beneficial to do normal cycles and bridge in-between them, because you will still shut down and you are not classed as natural so might as well go for better gains.

Pscarb

well when you are shutdown you are shutdown, as i have said many times their is much more involved with the body to give good reason why you should come off steroids it is not only about the HPTA.
Steroids can effect Liver and kidney functions, cholesterol etc..all these things need to be given a rest..
the point to bridging with a small dose is to keep test at base levels and not dipping low and high through normal PCT but this is not to say bridging is for everyone as shutting down your HPTA is not advisable especially if you want kids...
yes you are correct i was on cycle for 15months a few yrs back and it took me 11months to recover since then i use alot less than i used to but then the time off forced me into thinking more about my diet and training which has helped me in the long run...