Tiny_T

hi bros new to the thread. stll researching. i know it depends largerly on your diet but i just wondered what do you prefer sustanon 250 or Test enathate. what would you regard as a better mass builder.

Also what would you stack it with dbol or deca and would you run tamoxifen throughout cycle to avoid any cases of aromatisation and bloat.

lastly, cycling duration 6-8 weeks?

all opinions would greatly be appricated.

my stats
age 22
height - 5.8
weght - approx 12stone 4

been training for approx 3 years, diet aim for 160-200g protien a day

jjj

testosterone, is testosterone nsimple as that, sus contains a few diffrent sorts, enanthate is just one, the diffrent sorts only mean how quickly the test gets in your bloodstream, both are good mass builders and can be stacked with dbol or deca, or both,

if its your 1st cycle just stick with test alone, around 250- 500mg per week is fine,
as for the time frame, if you take sus or enanthate you want to be on it at least 10 weeks as they have long-acting esters, if you want a shorter co****, do just dianabol, or testosterone propionate....

Pscarb

if this is your first cycle at your age i would use 500mg of Sus 250 do both shots on the same day every week for 8 weeks followed by a 4 week PCT

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joshiboy

I know this is your first "Cycle"...But in my opinion TEST shouldnt be run alone...Not because it doesnt do any harm...But because its not OPTIMAL!

A PERFECT CYCLE CONSISTS OF *BOTH*, SLOW AND FAST-ACTING STEROIDS!

In most cases, a LONG-esterfied injectable steroid such as Testosterone Enanthate or Sus 250 would function as the BASE of the cycle, providing slow but consistent gains throughout the entire cycle's duration.

A SHORT-acting steroid is used in either the BEGINNING of a cycle and/or at the END of a cycle. Typically, Dianabol and Anadrol are used at the beginning of a cycle to provide STRENGTH and MASS gains BEFORE the base(and/or secondary injectable) "KICK IN". A FAST-ACTING stroid such as Anavar or Winstrol is used at the END of a cycle and RIGHT UP UNTIL post cycle therapy (PCT), while the LONG-acting steroid SLOWLY exits the system.


An optimal cycle contains several components:


1.) The JUMPSTARTER: This compound must be FAST-ACTING, so as to generate muscle and strength gains BEFORE YOUR BASE AND YOUR ASSISTANT KICK IN. Jumpstarting usually applies to BULKING cycles, but they can be used effectively in CUTTING cycles as well. Dianabol and Anadrol are the most popular steroids for JUMPSTARTING a cycle, because they both induce incredible strength and mass in a very short period of time; but it important to note that there are MANY other drugs that can be used for this purpose that are usually overlooked. Halotestin at 30-40mgs will provide ENORMOUS strength at the beginning of your cycle, making it GREAT to jumpstart BULKING cycles AND CUTTING cycles. Injectable Winstrol can ALSO be used to jumpstart BULKING CYCLES and CUTTING CYCLES. The Oral is too weak to act as an effective JUMPSTARTER. I would say the same for Anavar and Turinabol. Trenbolone Acetate and Testosterone Propionate(or suspension) are also very popular choices used to jumpstart BULKING cycles. You will be using Dianabol as your JUMPSTARTER.


2.) A Base: This is the usually the most powerful compound in the stack, and it is typically ran throughout the entire duration of the cycle. Most individuals will choose Testosterone for a base, but for those uncomfortable using testosterone; Trenbolone, Equipoise, Masteron, and even Primobolan can be used instead. In your case, the base will be testosterone Enanthate.


3.) The FINISHER: A FAST-acting steroid MUST BE UTILIZED at the end of your cycle's duration! You MUST remain ANABOLIC right up until post cycle therapy! If you FAIL to use a fast-acting steroid such as Winstrol or Oxandrolone during your FINAL weeks while your BASE and/or your ASSISTANT leave your system, you will LOSE GAINS BEFORE YOU EVEN BEGIN post cycle therapy. This is one of the BIGGEST mistakes people make. Test E will not leave your system for at LEAST 2 weeks after your FINAL SHOT. Therefore, you MUST remain anabolic during these 2 weeks when your adrogen levels PLUMMET! You will be using Winstrol Inject *or* Oral as your Finisher.


Failure to uitlize ANY of the 3 ESSENTIAL COMPONENTS will result in a cycle that is LESS THAN OPTIMAL.*

For an intermediate or advanced user, a SECONDARY ANABOLIC called the "assistant" should be added for OPTIMAL results.

*) The Assistant: This compound is ran alongside the BASE for the majority of the cycle, providing a synergistic effect throughout it's duration. Most people will choose either Deca or Equipoise, usually using testosterone as the base. Trenbolone, Masteron, and Primobolan also make great Assistants. You will be using Deca as your Assiatant.

Beginner:

Weeks 1-6: Dianabol, 30mgs ED
Weeks 1-10: Test E, 500mgs
Weeks 10-14: Winstrol Inject, 75mgs ED

Intermediate/Advanced:

Weeks 1-6: Dianabol, 30mgs ED
Weeks 1-10: Test E, 500mgs
Weeks 1-10: Deca, 400mg
Weeks 10-14: Winstrol Inject, 75mgs ED


The Standard Cycle is designed for OPTIMUM anabolism, utilizing precise strategies in order to gain and sustain the most muscle possible!

Hope this Helps

glenn

very informative ta

Pscarb

joshiboy nice post did you write it or cut and paste it as i have seen it before on other sites.
i do disagree with it for a first time user though

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joshiboy

i learnt that from a very good friend and soon to be work mate of mine.. Ross who owns supreme sports fitness...

even though i am new to steroids myself, but i have done years of research before i drew anything up into a syringe.

follow this and you will be amazed...

there is also a "theory" that nolva and/or clomid is not needed for pct UNLESS you are using tren or deca.

and AI such as arimidex is sufficient enough..

mars1960

Welcome TT.
Use either mate. 500mg wk 10wks is a good place to start, you can shoot the sust in one shot as pscarb said, if you go with test e then you'd be best to split@250mg 2xwk.

Pscarb

well tell your mate Ross this is a good theory in fact many guys follow it themselves including me but for a first cycle it is not needed, i will tell you now that after 20yrs using AAS and peptides nothing amazes me anymore
as for the theory about nolva and clomid then that is b0llox i would love to hear the logic behind the theory also Adex is a bad choice in my opinion to be used in PCT mainly because of the lipid profile damage it can cause (what does your theory say about that?) Aromasin is a better choice as it has been shows to raise test by up to 60%...

far more things dictate results from a cycle than the steroid used...or the theory behind it to make it amazing though...

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joshiboy

i said like arimidex...this could be just about any AI

aromasin, letro ( which most people wont use as pct ), proviron etc

redman

I do not agree with this post, IMO this is old school cycle design, it works but there are far better options using the standard base of a 12-14 week cycle.


1) I dont agree with closing and openining a cycle with short acting ester unless your running a SHIC.

A kick start simply means that homostasis kicks in faster meaning SHGB and cortisol rise faster meaning the end of the cycle is less than optimal.

I use what I step cycling in 4-6 week blocks, this means that I up the dose or add a compound every 4-6 week resulting in homostasis/SHBG and cortisol being one step behind, I find cycles far more productive that way.

E.g

weeks 1-4 600mg-test-e/w
weeks 5-8 800mg-test-e/w
weeks 9-12 1000mg-test-e/w

(closing a cycle with prop does however work well IMO)

eg.

week-13 100mg test-p EOD
week-14 100mg test-p ED

Follow by PCT. This method uses COLD TURKEY. I.E high levels of test maintained with the prop and than.. BANG.... all estred test clars the system in one fell swoop, this is followed by PCT. Androgn levels will plumet faster than anything and cortisol spikes of the scale.


Kick starting with D-bol or halo to get a rapid gain in strength is less than optimal also IMO. D-bol is exerts a strong Class 2 action meaning that glycogen/H2O rention is boosted rapidly increasing strength, however actuall protein synthesis (class 1 action) does not really kick in until the estred test does. This leaves the user open to injury, in effect they are strong without the tissue behind it.I have found the most productive cycles close with a "strength" compound such as halo at the end when the user has build up the tissue to handle the weights. For longer cycles the introduction of D-bol can aid in adding mass and hypertrophy of the fibres undergoing increased protien systhesis from the base of test MID cycle.

hears another example of step cycling with adding in compounds and using D-bol mid cycle..

Weeks 1-4 Test-e 750mg/w
Weeks 5-8 Test-e 750mg/w Injectabe D-bol 25mg/d
Weeks 9-12 Test-e 750mg/w injectable D-bol 25mg/d halo 20mg/d

Start PCT 2 weeks after last jab, androgn levels decline slower as the enanthate estered test clears the system and cortisol spikes slower but over a loner duration. Its a case of personal choice if you prefer to cold turkey or let the esterd compound clear the system before PCT.

Tiny_T

sorry i forgot to mention i did a 6 weeks sus and deca course last year, 500mg sus and 200mg deca. took tamoxifen for 2 weeks after last shot and then clomid. would you recommend i do;

week 1-10 500mg test e
week 1-10 200mg deca
week 10-14 winny inj 50mg ed

mars1960

Pretty much agree, i'm sure iv'e read something very similar years ago.
Yes sure it's an optimal cycle, but i wouldn't recommend it for a 1st cycle, because in the long term it's not optimal for the majority of steroid users these days who have no intention of competing.
A first cycle like that is optimal, but strictly for the sole goal of becoming a professional bber.
So in 99% of cases i'd still recommend a simple test cycle.

joshiboy

Weeks 1-4: Dianabol, 30mgs ED
Weeks 1-10: Test E, 500mgs
Weeks 1-10: Deca, 400mg
Weeks 10-14: Winstrol Inject, 50mgs ED

200mg of deca will do next to nothing

mars1960

No i wouldn't recommend that, jabbing 200mg deca for 10wks i'd feel i wasted it, not enough to show any decent gains for the trouble.