FORBODYBUILDERS

CYCLE

1200mg ICN 1-6 (30 x ICN amps)
100mg fina eod 1-6 (2000mg fina)

2 weeks
clomid 100mg ED (14 tabs)
nolva 20mg ED (14 tabs)
arimidex .50mg ED (7 tabs)
hcg 1000ius ED (3 x 5000iu HCG)
300mg t.propionate (6 x testovis)

1200mg enanthate 1-6 (30 x ICN amps)
600mg EQ 1-6 (3600mg EQ)

2 weeks
clomid 100mg ED (14 tabs)
nolva 20mg ED (14 tabs)
arimidex .50mg ED (7 tabs)
hcg 1000ius ED (3 x 5000iu HCG)
300mg t.propionate (6 x testovis)

4iu HGH during all CYCLE
2-3 x a week after trening HUMALOG (6-10IU)


ANY SUGEST GUYS

FORBB

big pete

not quite sure how youve constructed this, am i right in saying....

1-6 trenbolone+test enanthate
7-8 clomid/nolva/adex/HCG/prop
9-15 enanthate+EQ
16-17 clomid/nolva/adex/HCG/prop

1-17HGH 4iu every day
slin post training

is that correct? sorry for asking, only that the format of layout is not what im used to seeing!! lol

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'there is greatness inside all of us, how deep are you willing to dig? '

MEATNECK

well,im confused..
also,are you running hcg,clomid and prop together for pct?

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Jimmy

???????????????????

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'Genetics is the science of heredity and variation in living organisms. Inheritance in organisms occurs by means of discrete traits, called genes.'

FORBODYBUILDERS

yeah man,this is way pro BB use..crossing if you hear ejt guys?

forbb

FORBODYBUILDERS

some info so you will understand ym cycle big guys!

forbb

----

Cruising--I want to clear some things up about this. As much as I like people to keep the training in correct format because Ive experimented with this stuff so much and I think I have a feel for what is working best, with blasting and cruising it can be individualistic.

With Natural guys, they usually go 5 weeks to 14 weeks blasting and then take a 2 week cruise--the norm seems to be somewhere between 7 weeks blasting and 12 weeks blasting. You read this by being in tune with your body and when you start feeling worn out and not really wanting to give the logbook an ass kicking--its time to cruise. But dont make a major mistake that some nattys do which is simply refusing to take a day off. Sometimes that rectifies the whole situation right there. At that moment because of various problems, lack of sleep, stress, etc you read that as a time to cruise but basically all you need is to skip a workout and pick up the schedule on the next day and your right back to normal. Now if you take a day off and you get that 3-4 days of straight rest and still feel listless and unmotivated, hey then its time to cruise. I will give you some examples of what some of my nat trainees do

7 weeks blasting 2 weeks cruising
12 weeks blasting 2 weeks cruising
5 weeks blasting 7 days cruising
8 weeks blasting 7-10 days cruising

As you can see above its personal choice how long you want to blast and cruise. Some guys take the 2 weeks cruise some guys like it shorter. Its up to you. I also have some guys that train pretty hard with straight sets during this time (but short of failure) and some guys that kind of just wing it (either way is going to work--your just maintaining)

For my enhanced trainees the situation is a little different. Alot of this is all done by personal preference and how you morally stand on the super supplement issue. The most important thing to remember is during a cycle that there comes a time where your endo test is dropping (well its always dropping but read ahead) and estro side effects are coming on fast. Most of the time this big ratio skewering is most prominent between weeks 3 and 8. And to pinpoint it further I would suggest that right around weeks 5-7 is the key time. Alot of my trainees can actually feel this point during their cycles. Your appetite starts lessening, you feel a change in androgen benefits according to your body (hardness decreases slightly, smoothing out, lethargy), your temper increases (most likely due to the estro/test skewered ratio--(the same bitchiness alot of guys get when they use clomid)--and your attitude toward workouts and destroying the logbook starts decreasing more and more (over many weeks).....You really have to know your body well to recognize these signs but someone who has been around the block for awhile will definitely. So what do most guys do at this point that dont follow my methods? They up the dose slightly and it gets them gaining again but also most likely is going to make it living hell when they get off finally. (If they get off is what i should say---and that right there raises more problems....if you fix these problems by continually upping the dose over time, where are you going to go? How much toxicity and abuse will you be putting yourself thru a year down the road to continue making gains? Thats why I kind of chuckle when I hear guys say "phuk that I make my best gains after week 5 or so and thats why i do 16 week cycles"--well of course you do you upped the dose and every time you up the dose youll override that endo test drop and continue making gains. In the long run where is that going to leave you though? Your going to have to abuse the hell out of yourself to put more muscle mass on your body. So what do you do? Your job is to decide in the context of my methods what is best for you. If thats one cycle a year so be it. If thats being on continually for years and years thats your choice. All I ask is that you do one simple thing. Always keep this following thought in the back of your mind with whatever path you choose thats right for you concerning super supplements. YOU MUST DO EVERYTHING IN YOUR POWER TO TRY TO KEEP YOURSELF REGULATED HPTA WISE. Whats the best way to do that? Never use super supplements. Whats the best way to do that if you do use super supplements? Use everything at your disposal to send signals to the hpta at intermittent times. Ive stated many times what i think someone who is using 1 or 2 cycles a year should do, 4-8 weeks blasting and 2 weeks cruising. So if it was one cycle and one only this year you would do something akin to 4-8 weeks on, 2 weeks antiestrogens and hcg and then 4-8 weeks on again and pct therapy again and off. That basically is a 8-16 week cycle thats going to be very easy to keep muscle mass when you get off instead of the guys who hammer themself for 4 months straight and cross their fingers when they get off with clomid that they dont disengrate (laughable because it happens 90% of the time) ........So Ive already hit on that limited super supplement usage that people do above too many times to count over the last 3 years............and to be brutally honest theres alot of guys (elite pros, top amateurs and advanced bodybuilders) that are running year round and I know those guys want to hear what Im going to say on this. SO DONT GET YOUR GODDAMN PANTIES IN A WAD IF THIS GOES AGAINST WHAT YOU PERSONALLY FEEL IS RIGHT AND MORALLY SOUND YOU HOLIER THAN THOU PROHORMONE ABUSERS AND ONCE A YEAR CYCLERS. Examples of some athletes in Europe or Mexico (where this is all legal)
7 weeks on 2 weeks cruising
6 weeks on 1 week cruising
8 weeks on 2 weeks cruising
7 weeks on 7-10days cruising
It basically comes down to choices of the individual. Some guys cruisings are arim, nolv, hcg and clomid. Some guys refuse to get completely off and do arim nolv hcg clom and 50mg of test prop eod during the cruises. I know of one who does arim nolv hcg clom, the low dose test 50mg and anavar during the cruises and he does that for 3 weeks after blasting for 7-8. Every blasting your trying to get to a new muscular level, every cruising your trying to regulate yourself somewhat by sending signals to the HPTA and maintaining or if your lucky slightly increasing muscle size. It needs to be done that way if your going to stay on for extended periods otherwise your going to have one terrible time coming off. Now if I see one freaking guy posting that this is DC's recommendations on other boards, IM GOING TO GO OFF! I wrote up something like this 4 years ago as it pertained to elite athletes who were running year round anyway and then for the next 3 years I heard idiots telling people that I recommended year round cycling. I recommend letting whatever an individual chooses himself to do and i work in those parameters and try to suggest a better way. Do I believe blasting and cruising works much better both for muscle gains and keeping the hpta regulated than just bludgeoning yourself year round, ....HELL YES I DO. In fact if you break down things, there isnt much difference in "time on""time off" of someone doing 4 months on and 2 months off (pct included) and doing it this way--its almost exactly the same. The difference is the above way i described doesnt give you that YO YO effect where you always trying to gain back muscle mass you lost with each cycle. If you are reading this and believe pros and top amateurs are coming off when they are at the Pro Ironman in February, The arnold in March, The Night of Champions in May, The USA's in the end of July, The olympia in the early fall, and the GNC in the fall, along with flex magazine photo shoots, multiple appearances, and 5-20 guest posings spread out also during the year--AND YET ALWAYS LOOKING BIG HARD JACKED AND NEVER LOOKING SMALLER OR SMOOTHER.....then you need to wake up and smell the Java because your clueless. It aint happening. When is the last time you saw a pro and thought "wow he looks off, he is alot smaller and really smooth too" --I am pretty sure Ronnie took a break this year because of his look earlier in the year but the majority of others? Look at all the shows above spread out over the year and add in maybe one to two shows they are competing in this year (with 4 month contest preps) and you tell me when they are getting off. They arent or if they are its definitely not 2 months completely (off and clean) like Ive seen many post its more like a week here or a week there. There is a massive rock hard amateur superheavyweight with the initials D.P. who strongly advocates 4 months on and 2 months completely off--very strongly advocates the 2 months completely off. When is the last time you have seen him look small and smoother? Theres 100's of pics on his site showing him at various times the last 5 years or so at different shows, guest posings, appearances and he competes twice a year too (theres 8 months on right there). Do you see one pic where he looks off? So the bottom line is this, blasting and cruising is individualistic and it is based on being natural or enhanced and it is based on when both individuals (nat/enhan) start feeling burnt out from the war with the logbook. I step peoples diets down a notch during cruisings (especially the enhanced because their skewered test/est ratio at that time isnt optimal) and I make everyones training more of maintenance to prep them for another blasting. Whether nat or enhanced if you try to go year round with this brutal war with the logbook, it wont work, you have to take 2 steps forward and a half step back and regroup your mindset, fortitude and desire to go the extra mile here.

damagedgoods

That makes interesting reading, and whilst it contradicts pretty much everything you read about gear use it makes sense.

There are a number of top level amatures at the new gym I have just joined and I've spoken to them about their use of gear - most of them say they stay on for most of the year, doing 4weeks on 2 weeks off etc..

I've done a long cycle before - and found as you say I've only made the gains in the firs 5-6 weeks and then just stabalised... hence y I will only do a short cycle now.

What I fail to understand is these guys are using gear with long half lives most of the time, like sust and cyp, whcih would mean that the gear wouldn't have even left the system if they are off for 2 weeks.... Now if they were using suspension or something like winnny i could understand this blast - cruise system... please explain. Thx

big pete

im so glad im not mad, ive been trying to explain this to a few people for a while now!!!

at the gym they say "just looking at the weights today eh??"

dont feel up to lifting heavy, then next week i come back stronger and bigger

this makes complete sense to me.

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'there is greatness inside all of us, how deep are you willing to dig? '

big pete

sorry, but back to the cycle. the "cruising period" i dont see any need for the clomid/nolva/hcg. whilst your resting obviously its the time to grow, so id keep the prop there, maybe not quite so much though. just 100mg/day

or just keep it as being test/tren/EQ for the whole 12-14 weeks??

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'there is greatness inside all of us, how deep are you willing to dig? '

FORBODYBUILDERS

hope now you understand it man..i always sead fast ester gear rule! sustanon ****

forbb

Cheater2K

lol, cycle is abit advanced for me to comment :p

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FORBODYBUILDERS

i know and i am for sure i will get some good results..

forbb

Z3R0-CooL

i just read the article.. well if u are planning to compete(seriously) or turning pro it would make sense but not if are an average joe that uses AAS just to look better..

i myself cant comment on the cycle or give advice or anything since i havent used AAS yet however i got one question.....

lets say, according to the article, someone did 8 weeks on 2 weeks PCT(thats what he means by cruising right?) and then go "on" again... wouldnt that be wrong?

let me explain why i say this..

lets say the person did 8 weeks of cypionate/enanthate/sustanon or deca/EQ... that would mean that:

week 1-8: test(long ester)/deca

then 8-10 PCT?? which would mean that by the time he finishes PCT the test and the deca are still in his system actively since they got 2/3 weeks half life each.. thus, even though he signaled the HPTA with the clomid/HCG etc.. he did not really come off at all, thus not allowing the HPTA to function even though he signalled it with PCT. Then if he did another 8 weeker and 2 PCT that would eventually mean that he is "on" year around non stop, since the drug is still in his system while doing PCT, resulting in a permanent "block" to the HPTA. Meaning that he would be singalling the HPTA to function but would not allow it to do its job.

and isnt using prop on PCT just counter-productive and just plain pointless?

i have read that it take about 2-3 weeks "on" cycle to shut down the HPTA with long acting steroids (even though some PS's shuts as M1T it only take about 48 hours). so that means that an 8 weeker would definitely shut down the HPTA and using prop during PCT would

a) tell the HPTA that test is still present thus it shouldnt produce any more test,

b) singalling the HPTA to function IF it actually jumpstarts with the SERMS/AIs, would still see circulating test in the blood so it wouldnt really jumpstart and would just go to sleep again..(it would be like a person setting the alarm at 3am to wake up, waking up,not doing anything, turning the alarm off and going back to sleep) just plain pointless.

c) HPTA totally "confused" since it was told to function but not "really" do its job thus resulting in more problems or permanent shut down..

just an assumption... i could be wrong though... i hope u get what i am trying to point out... even though i might/am wrong... what do u guys think ?

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Remember:

"Drugs should be utilized to maximize the results of a proper lifestyle, both training and DIET. They are not there to correct your errors."

"Knowledge is Power. Keep Educating yourself!!"

DB

bump zero....i like his question

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