Marsbar

In a word ... Yes .. I really do think you could have made those gains with proper knowledge about diet and training instead of jumping into using gear. Answer me this .. are you gonna stay on gear for ever then? If not .. what are you gonna do????

nathanlowe

I dont even take steriods but get annoyed when people say, hes only big because he takes steroids.
Not many people understand the strict dieting, intense training etc that is needed.

Im not even considering using steroids until i have reached my natural limit and am definatly past the age of 21.
Im 16 now so will have 4 years of solid training before even considering using AAS.
(im nearly 17 so didnt put 5 years )

Marsbar

double post

MXD

The thing is though you will add muscle natrually up untill you are like 40 its just the progress is much slower. Truth is hardly anyone gets even near their natrual limit pre gear..

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cwoody123

I am planning for this to be my last cycle...as i said i just want to be normal nothing else.

That's enough for me on this...I have no need to justify myself any more...but i think you preachers have plenty to justify!

And i personally will continue to judge every case (including newbies) individually and not place them in to the 'Dump fcuk' group just because they do not conform to your rules!

ShaunMc

from your pics you can see you have done really well and you must be pleased with your results

again my comments were aimed at guys new to bodybuilding who put the emphasis on drug use before training..... your medical condition would not fall directly into that category ... i made the assumption you were a bodybuilder as it is a bodybuilding forum.

you seem quick to take offense which is understandable given what you have been through , but the comments were made without knowledge of your condition and assuming you were a bodybuilder

if a guy wrote in and said he never bothers with leg training he would get slated ... it would not be fair if 4 days later he says its because they were amputated at birth ... no body on this site is a mind reader

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cwoody123

That was pretty funny!

megatron

Hmm, male animal?

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Pscarb

Woody your transformation is amazing and one to be proud of but i cannot see why you could not of done this with diet and training alone?? as i said what was the rush.
you say this is your last cycle well i doubt that but i guess we will see although this does bring up the point i was stating and that is how do you then know how to keep your gains with just diet and training when you really have not learnt how it reacts without the gear....

woody i have said it is your choice to do what you will but i do see a trend that when a thread goes against what you believe you get defensive and give up on it....no one is preaching to you it is called a difference of opinion........

no one is judging the masses well apart from you calling big guys freaks as you did before which you have not answered my question yet to weather that was aimed at me...??

don't partake in this discussion if you don't want to that again is your choice......

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Ziricote

Just looking at that clen thread that's popped up has made me wonder...why are we not as concerned with other anabolic/catabolic substances as we are with AAS? Especially when some of these drugs (DNP springs to mind...) are known to kill if misused. Seems that when someone asks about something like Clen people drop the typical "diet/years training/workout routine" questions and simply answer.

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13stonetarget

My 2p.

Very few people who use gear reach their genetic potential first. So long as they use gear safely, understand the risks and make a solid effort with their training and diet, I don't see the problem.

I am very greatful that there are so many knowledgable people on this forum who are willing to spend their time answering questions on bodybuilding. I'm also greatful that there are many people who are willing to share their experiences of gear so that others do not have to go through painful, expensive and possibly health damaging experiences.

Occasionally though it does seem that people are condemned for their actions and choices, which is a shame.

On the subject of Woody, I think you have made a tremendous change to your physique and I can totally understand why you would want to skip the years of effort you would have to put in. You want to enjoy young life because you only get one shot.

Interesting post guys.

BLUE(UK)

Seeing your pictures i think you're no worse off than some people i have seen although i am not in your shoes and i guess that one really wants to be looking good for the ladies.
I do hope that it was indeed your last cycle since it's fair to say you now look like a 'regular guy' and hopefully you can build on this foundation you've built yourself.
But,please be aware that there are many people who train for 5mins to look like 'arnie' or whoever in time for Friday/Saturday night and therefore need all the help they can get.....or so they truly believe.

On the same vein,i agree with PScarb and ShaunMC about the need to develop a good natural base before starting any 'gear'.Personally i dont use anything and never have done yet i sit here sometimes and laugh when people say they're taking their 3rd or 10th course of gear and STILL look like a newbie....only to find they've been 'training' for an whole year.......on and off!!

PS,PScarb....i dont know how you remain so patient sometimes.

hackskii

Well, in my posts I do sound pro-gear, which I am not actually, I did want to play some devils advocate really and now I will switch to the other side of the coin. I did play devils advocate as some that are on cycles right now have gotten suggestions to hold off with gear and they fell on deaf ears.

One great thing about training is it is all about stimulus. Once you put a load on the muscle the body adapts to accommodate the added stimulation to the muscle.
What happens?
First of all the muscle becomes stronger due to adaptive response due to stimulation.
Muscle grows pretty fast on its own as far as strength is concerned.
The muscle gets stronger and the tendons and ligaments get stronger to accommodate the added strength in muscle.
The muscle gets stronger, the tendons and ligaments get stronger to accommodate the muscle and the bone gets more dense (marrow) to support the tendons and ligaments.

They did a ultrasound on a professional pitcher and his bone in his pitching arm had twice the density as his non pitching hand.
All about the adaptive response due to stimulation.

Where am I going with this?
It takes years for the tendons and ligaments to be able to carry the big loads of the big lifts.
With the use of steroids muscle can grow many times faster and the tendons and ligaments can not keep up with the growth of the muscle. When this happens you are way more prone to injury, many steroids actually make the connective tissue weaker and this all together is another reason why time off would be a good thing.

I know this to be true from first hand experience, I was 44 years old when I injured my shoulder trying to get my bench up far above my natural limits.
I have lifted for years and once I did a cycle I did not want to hold back so I went for it.
Got an injury and the rest is history, in fact I tore a bicep on gear too, just wanting to power through things.
Lets not forget I have lifted for 30 years, started at 15, did my first cycle at 23, did another one at 28, got pretty strong, then went without till I was 44.
Made good gains all times, never knew about PCT till after the 44 shutdown episode…lol
That and I had numerous injuries from just pushing too hard for my age.

Looking back, I really should have kept the training within my own realm of realism.

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ShaunMc

It would appear that people divide into two groups on this ...... there are those that love lifting weights and work hard in and out of the gym to build therir physiques .. to them bodybuilding is a way of life and the use of chemicals enhances their physiques but is secondary to hard work


and there are those that see chemicals as the key to building their physiques , to them training is secondary to finding the magical stack which will transform them into a champ overnight


is it merely coincednce that all the guys with impressive muscular physiques such as Paul Scarb, Marsbar, Wogihao, Geo ColinDjj all fall into the first category ....... i have yet to see an impressive physique from the second category i wonder why ?????

maybe taking drugs as a short cut doesnt work

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South West Class 1 2008

hackskii

It does work, wogi got 64 lbs of weight gain in 9 months from an aggressive protocol with gear, and training, nobody could do that natural, not and maintain a fairly small waist line.
Cant isolate that one.

Some of those guys you mentioned have used gear, peptides and insulin, don't want to sound arguementitive but I have in fact in my 30+ years of training seen guys get very massive in very little time.

Remember not everyone is after the same thing as those guys, they compete, they use gear and other things too.
If you are going to argue that all of those guys could have done it natural I would say, not so.

I can honestly say that I know many guys that got massive from drugs, that never had that before and when they come off they lose their shape and condition.
Fact is, you take gear and train, you will gain, I have seen guys do this with crap diets.
You can call me a liar if you want but I have seen it first hand more than once, including myself.

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