warren_1987

did this lad start to young?? lol

http://www.fugly.com/videos/7426/7_y...ilder_kid.html

bigacb

Sound advice again lost, definatly fist a virgin on the first date...only if they let you mind .

__________________
January 2004 - 10st3lb (8% bf)
January 2005 - 11st5lb (8% bf)
January 2006 - 12st3lb (8% bf)
January 2007 - 13st0lb (11% bf)
January 2008 - 15st4lb (15% bf)
Now... - 13st10lb (9% bf)

SCJP

I know it's your opinion, but I fcuking hate statements like this. It takes no account of genetics & the massive variances between the strongest & weakest of men.

Or perhaps you are saying that someone who cannot achieve good (great??) gains naturally should not be entitled to make up for their inadequacies with a little assistance?

Either way, you're wrong.

Con

Oh i am fcuking wrong am i?!

Well i think your opinion is utter shti!

Show me some with "bad genetics" and i will show you some one who has not mastered their body and learnt how to eat, train and rest in order to create muscular gains.

Guess we will have to agree to disagree

SCJP

Speaking from experience matey, I do think you are 'fcuking wrong', as you so eloquently put it.

I'll respond ASAP (in a positive way) if you want to continue this, but not tonight. Maybe another thread?

Tatyana

There are a lot of people that never learn how to train with the correct intensity, or feed themselves well, but the genetic factors, like insertion points, muscle fiber composition, testosterone output, efficacy of the alpha-five reductase enzyme, androgen receptor variation, insulin sensitivity, cortisol output, variations in thyroid function, variation in the effectiveness of digestive enzymes........................

There are genetic differences that make it much easier for some to put on muscle, and a lot more difficult for others.

Think about applying your statement to something like intelligence, and people not being able to get into a top university, or beauty and not being able to model. Same thing really.

andysutils

bad dieting/lifestyle,
overuse
overabuse

Con

Sure mate not a bother i probably took your reply in the wrong way at the wrong time so i appolgize for coming off like a prick. I just strongly disagree that is all

wogihao

I think the genetics argument is greatly overstated, if we take intelect as a example over a population there should generaly be a vast number of individuals of average intelect. Whilst its true there are some unfortunates that are born morons or idots they are a tiny percentage of the total population. In the same way as genius occurs rarely.

This same fact aplys to people genetic potential for bodybuilding or sports in general. It appears to me that people should be able to make good progress with a sound diet and rest plan coupled with a exersise program suited to there needs.

It stands to reasion that the majority of individuals should make good progress - granted its not going to make them elite level athelets but by the same token it does not explain why so few make good or even average progress.

Theres somthing else hampering these people progress besides there average genetic potential for growth. I would agree with Con and say more likely than them being the bodybuilding equivilant of untermenchen or Morons they are just average people but with a bad diet/exersise or rest program.

How many of the people that clame to be hardgainers can truly say they exausted every posibility of good diet/training/rest available to them.

I can testify to the fact that my own progress was hampered by poor exersise understanding and diet know how. I cant blame my genetics for my lack of aplication in these areas of my life. Its a cop out. What finaly enabled me to make progress was to accept that i was to blame for my own lack of progress and that it was not down to somthing that i couldnt control (my genetic potential for growth).

When I accepted this suprise suprise i made changes that were nessary and i grew like never before...

Ofcourse there are some unlucky fellows that represent such a tiny percentage of the total training population that they should be as rare as ubermenchen that they will not make progress but they are so rare i doubt that you would ever meet more than one in your lifetime.

Con

No one was talking about any of that the statement was that any one can build a much larger and stronger body with out the use of drugs to the extent that they stand out in the general public and wouldnt be out of place on a natural bodybuilding stage ( and i mean natural as in no drugs not just drug tested)which is basically for the most part a toned body show and SCJP stated that this is not possible for every one.
NO ONE was talking about creating a pro sized body and i mean no drug sized natural pro sized body obviously i purely meant stand out of the crowd body.


Plus if your so genetically retarded in the first place drugs wont make up for it.

Lost Soul

Bad genetics exist

Bad genetics = not having a brain or a backbone

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wogihao

True but then we get into the nature nurture debate.

Is someones diet retarded because of a genetic pre-dispostion to eat Chei McD and Licking Chicken or is it there parents/peers fault for imprining a bad lifestlye choice?

Same with training, I dont think people are geneticly destined to use chrome dumbells on the preacher bench and use crappy routines. Its there lack of aplication to real pain and sacrifice.

Sure your have a tiny percentage of genetic basket cases but there going to be as rare as potential Mr Olympians.

It seems to me that people are all to fast to blame somthing they cant change rather than faults that are created through there lack of sound theory/aplication.

I firmly beleve that within every bicep/chest boy theres a balanced bodybuilder waiting to get out - just needs the right training/diet and rest plan.

Lost Soul

I believe in every person there is an ability to make a very good body to be proud of. These folk will never make olympia but so very few do. I would prefer application and a backbone Vs genetics.
There are very very few who cannot look great, genetics is just the first port of call when justifying their shortcomings.
We also have to appreciate many mistake self abuse for genetics and example being those who almost proudly have turned themselves from ecto/mesos to endos if that scale floats your boat.
Not genetics but burture over nature and most with a set of nuts is reversible

"I cant lose stubborn fat, I have bad genetics" when they are 25% body fat....nope you are just uneducated or lazy

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bkoz

roid rage is a myth.wives tale

Tatyana

LMAO!

You said genetically retarded.

I like it.