hackskii

Well if he is 9.9 for testosterone and the refrence range is 13-40 nmol/L to 15/18-45 he is low test levels.
Same thing happened to me before, what I did was run a PCT, using HCG, clomid and nolva and when I took my bloods after the PCT I was within refrence ranges but still on the lower end.

Within a couple of days with the start of PCT you would feel awesome.
You will come back online eventually in another 5 months or more, but you can be fixed up in about 45 days with a good PCT.

Tat is right about the LH being high, it is only trying to bring your lazy nuts back to life.
This is very common.
It can take about 2 weeks for the pitutary to come online, but up to 10 weeks or even more for the testicles to product testosterone.

Check out this chart.

Attached Images

LH test levels.JPG (77.4 KB, 37 views)

__________________
Scott

cwoody123

The conversion from nmol to Ng/dl Is divide nmol by 0.0347

The way i see it is if the nuts are getting the signal they should be responding plain and simple...Time does **** all that is why PCT is so effective so quickly because you nuts are getting plenty of signal to produce test and induce spemogenisis.If that is not happening then there is something either stopping the signal getting to the cells or the cells aren't functioning surely?


The reference range for my labs is 9-40 nmol an < 80 nmol for estrodial...his estrodial is strange to be elevated considering the amount of test he has.

7i7

for test? nmol is relative (to molecule weight) measure, so ratio depends on compound

cwoody123

Thats is the conversion found on about 3 independent studies...it took me 4 days to dig out.

packard

so are my lh,fsh & estrogen actually high i dont understand why my test levels have not come up aswell i would just do anouther pct but wouldnt wont to make things worse & i wouldnt no were to start as my lh is quite high

7i7

aah, math was to long ago to get the powers right, but if above is correct for test then estradiol conversion ratio would be 0.03671

cwoody123

test mate..there is a differnet conversion for estrodial for instance:
9 nmol would be 259 ng/dl
40 nmol would be 1152 Ng/dl


Hacks what was the your ref range again?

Tatyana

Conversion made simple, it also give the conversion factors

http://dwjay.tripod.com/conversion.html

7i7

right, ik what u mean, just to correct
259/.9=287, 1152/4.0=288... 288 is molecular weight of test, not estradiol (which is 272), so 9 nmol would be 244 ng/dl etc

hackskii

Here, is a chart.
Testosterone fluctuates up and down during the day.
Testosterone is highest in the morning.
Morning wood is a great indication of good testosterone production.
When you chaps get older you will notice less morning wood than when you were younger.
When this happens you will notice (or not) loss of libido.......
Hormonal ballance is key here.

Attached Images

test.JPG (68.1 KB, 33 views)

__________________
Scott

Tatyana

I don't think it is the same for everyone Scott.

It is a general trend, but there are young men that have low test naturally, and older chaps that have much higher test.

That is the beauty of biochemical individuality.

cwoody123

Thats is a wicked tool!...Thanks

My calculations are exactly the same as that conversion site. The reason i needed the value was because my excel tracker does all the calculations automaticly.

Mate if your 'Primary' then there is not really much you can do as the testicles are not responding...this in my view is not a time thing considering you have had 6 months to get back online. I'm sure i read somewhere that once the Leydig cells are damaged then there is no way you can repair then (In the same sense as Type 2 diabetes) I may be wrong but would be interesting to know.

Here are some of my old blood test results:

Start of recovery of my natural testosteroen after prolactin secreting tumour, my Test was the same each month for a full 9 months before at 12-13 nmol


15/02/2007 - Just before clomid recovery cycle (no steroids)
Prolactin 198 nmol
LH 2.4
FSH 2.0
E2 <80
Test 12.6 nmol

23/03/2007 2 weeks after PCT
TSH 3.1 Nmol
Estrodial 257 pmol
LH 9.0
FSH 6.0 nmol
Prl 141
Testosterone 30.3

15/04/2007 - 12 weeks after PCT recovery
LH 2.6 (1-10)
FSH 2.0 (1-1)
PSA 0.7 ug/l (0-2.5)
TSH 1.5 (0.3 - 5)
T4 free 16.7 pmol (9-24)
T3 free 5.8 pmol (3.5-6.5)
Prolactin 111 nmol (0-400)
Cortisol 324 nmol/l (unknown)
Albumin 44 g/l (34-48)
SHBG 44 nmol (13-71)
Testosterone 20.2 (10-40)
DHEA 8.7 umol/l (unknown)

20/09/2007 - 6 weeks after pct
TSH 2.4 (0.3 - 5)
Prolactin 69 nmol (0-400)
Cortisol 468 nmol/l (unknown)
E2 296 pmol (0-80)
Testosterone 39.7 (US 1144) (range 10-40)
SHBG 33 nmol (Range 13-71)
That puts my free testosterone at: 0.969 nmol/L = 2.44 %
Bioavailable testosterone at: 23.7 nmol/L = 59.7 %

01/11/2007 - weeks into Dbol cycle
LH 2.6 nmol (1-10)
FSH 1 nmol (1-10)
Prolactin 117 nmol (0-500)
Estrodial 80 pmol (0-400)
Testosterone 6.8 mnol (10-40)

Pscarb

to be honest Packard this is all guess work to why your levels are low no one on here can tell you truly why this is happening, you have to see an endo really mate....if i was you i would not self medicate any more until you have seen the specialist you don't know if you are making it worse.

hackskii

I understand what you are saying.
I know this sounds crazy, but most every man my age or above that I have talked to seem to have less morning wood then what they remember.
I remember when I was young that in the morning I had to pee and I could not due to a raging hardon. This was common.
Ask any man around 50 if they still get this, having to wait till the erection went down some or have to sit on the toilet and lean fwd to allow him to pee.
Weather it be amounts of testosterone, or the way the penis works with age, ask any guy and you will find the same answer.
I ask guys all the time if they get morning wood.
This is a great indication of what is happening.

Two men, around my age said that they didnt get morning wood, I asked them if they think about sex alot, they said no, or that they are not in the mood. Both them too blood, both had low test levels, both are on androgel right now and feel great.
I asked them if they get morning wood, they both said they do now, I asked them if they both have better sex or increased libido, they both do.
This is nothing uncommon, I doubt you would get a strait answer if you asked men my age if they get morning wood, everyone you would ask out of ego would say sure.....lol
Especially with a nice set of bolt ons, it would be like oh yah honey, big time.....lol


I doubt dude is primary.
If this was the case test levels would be the same or lower, but they are going up, and they will go up till he gets back to where he was.
Same thing happened to my brother after a cycle.
It took one year for him to return to normal with the blood tests to prove it.
The recovery is slow but sure.

Recently I was diagnosed low test, they were going to put me on TRT.
I decided to do another PCT and get a full physical, next test was withing normal ranges but still a bit on the low side.

__________________
Scott

Tatyana

+1

Words of wisdom

The body wants to return to homeostasis, I would leave it alone and see if it sorts itself out.

Sex hormones work over weeks, if not months, and as you have suppressed yourself, it may take even a bit longer.

After you have seen an endo and things don't get sorted, then you may want to come back to the internet boards to see what you can do.

In the meantime, this fantastic clinical biochemist I know has a site called 'the Androgen Society' or TAS forum.

It is related to the andropause (which he is really big on researching), you may find some interesting articles there.