Lea

Hello

I am considering steroids after training on and off for 14 years.

I have used Creatine and Glutamine together on several occaisions and have had decent results with no nasty effects.

I have read the Laymans Guides from Mick Harts website (stopped using the site after being bombarded with daily e-mails) and have decided to go with Winstrol tabs (im a whimp and couldnt inject myself if I tried)

I thought about doing an 8 week cycle as follows:
Week 1 20mg daily
week 2 30mg daily
week 3 40mg daily
week 4 50mg daily
week 5 50mg daily
week 6 40mg daily
week 7 30mg daily
week 8 20mg daily

from week7 I would start again with creatine and do a cycle of creatine for 10 weeks then go back to the winstrol.

My routine is going to be

1) Standing flyes 3X10, Deadlifts 3X10, Flat Bench 3X10, Leg Press 3X10, Straight bar curl 3X10, Close Grip Press 3X10, Standing calf 3 X to fail. treadmill 20 min

2) Behind teh neck press 3X10, Single arm DBell row 3X10, Incline Flyes 3X10, Squats 3X10, DBell Curls 3X8, Pressdowns 3X10. Treadmill 20 min

3) Shrugs 3X10, Pulldowns 3X10, Incline press 3X10, Leg Ext 2X12, Stiff Leg Deadlift 2 X12, Dips £ sets to fail, Cam Bar Curl 3X10, Standing Calf to fail. Treadmill 20 min.

4) Cardio 80 mins.

I am 39 years old and my diet is quite good as I am Coeliac (cant eat wheat) so I cant have pizza, MacD's or takeaways.

Weight is 16st and I am 6ft 1

Does this sound reasonable or am I missing something?

Harry

Personally I wouldn't use Winny, something like Dbol or Tbol would IMO be a better start. Also you don't need to pyrimid just start at a dose and stay with it.

Also 8 weeks of Winny and your joints are going to kill if you do decide to do winny 6weeks max mate then PCT, then time off to recover after PCT.

thestudbeast

You missed out the PCT.

Winny's fine for a first cycle it's just not rated on this board. It's sides are quite high (for an anabolic it has loads of androgenic qualities being a DHT derivative), still the gains are quality and as a first cycle can produce significant results. A friend of mine gained over a stone lean in 10 weeks (most if not all the gains came pre week 6) it was his first cycle and he lost little if any of it.

Lea

Everything I have read says that Winstrol has low side effects and also is a low aromatising which means less chance of water retention. Is this correct or have I been missled?

I didnt want to go with Dbol as it has the opposite effect to Winny and the side effects are higher and it is necessary to use an anti eastrogen. Isnt the same true for Turanabol?

I also thought that creatine would be a better PCT as it should consolidate the gains I should make.

Would you suggest a 6 week cycle with or without a pyramid? or an 6 week cycle straight or pyramid.

Im slightly confused now...

pauly7582

Much more research needed before you start any cycles mate.

Winny alone, at that dose would give you neglegable gains. As above, Dbol or Tbol would be much better. Dbol would give the best gains (provided diet and training are dialled in 100%). A Dbol only course is a good starter and there is no need to use an anti E provided the dose is sensible. What water retention or increase in blood pressure you might encounter should be managed ok with diet.

Creatine is not an agent that will restore your testicular function which will be supressed after the use of any gear and so is not a PCT ingredient. HCG and nolvadex are the way to go. Check out the PCT sticky at the top of this section.

__________________
6' 0"
230lb
14% bf
BP: 180k
DL: 260k
Squat:200k

Lost Soul

AS above, lots of issues need ironing out in terms of PCT, role of gear and supplements and their use
Training can be better too but again what are you aiming to achieve by the end of this cycle?
So what are your goals?
Where is the diet?

Pop over to the training forum to find something a little more 'developed' in terms of exercise choice and structure, reps and sets

__________________
For every William Llewellyn there are 100 Willy Wonkers copy and pasting information they have no idea on yet are congratulated by 1000s of Umpa Lumpas who look like they have never seen inside of a gym.


“ a stark reflection of e-lifters using internet bodybuilding forums fancying themselves as gurus ” Lost Soul

The more posts I read on peoples steroid use the harder I find it to spot internet trolls

Lea

My diet is quite good. I have to admit that I dont go out of my way to eat 7 times a day etc (I did all of that when I was younger). I have 3 square meals a day Porridge for my breakfast, Jacket potato for luch with either cheese and beans of tuna mayo evening is meat and veg with rice or potatoes.

I want to get as big as possible but also stay quite lean. I have managed to drop about 7lbs over the last 12 months but have kept the same body size without any supplimentation either.

I want to take something but I cant have anything that has serious side effects as I work with people in a client facing scenario so a flaming temper explosion wouldnt go down very well. I am also 39 now so I know I am leaving it a bit late but I still think I have a chance to make some serious gains.

Harry

I'm suprised you are 16st on that diet is it supplimented with larger? As you would be a lot less IMO.

You really need to sort the diet out before you start a cyle mate, there is a reason you need to eat every 2-3 hours and that's to gain LBM. Sort your diet out first mate and I'm sure you will see a big difference without AAS.

Lea

lol I have been teetotal for 15 years.....

I was diagnosed as being coeliac when I was 30 so I cant eat wheat or gluten. I can tolerate porridge which is a good thing or I would be having to eat cardboard for my breakfast...lol

In relation to diet eating small meals every 3 hours my understanding is that your body burns the calories rather than storing them. I try and scale down the carbs in the evening and take in more protein as protein isnt stored as fat.

I am definately not cut or ripped but then again I tend to lead a normal life.

Harry

LOL - TBH honest mate diet is key, have a look in the diet section at some on there, with good diet training and quality rest your notice a major diffecence in weeks, but the 3 meals a day need to be revised. I wasted too many years not knowing about correct diet (still far from the best) but as soon as I made the changes things started to happen and round about the same age as yourself.

Lost Soul

No its not, its very poor and lacks the structure required to promote maximum anabolism, please dont try and suggest it does.

There are too few meals
there are no essential fats of note
the meals lack protein for hours on end
etc etc etc

see the diet forum for help

Doesnt everybody? is that though realistic without knowledge on dieting correctly? supplementation has minimal impact on this equation at this level

cake and eat it too? again taking steroids have possible side effects. they are not a passport to free muscle and whilst drugs like anavar and primo will have minimal sides, they are both expensive and offer nothign sorting your diet out couldnt do

You then havent done your homework on steroids and need to understand 'roid rage' is not experienced by most and is not a side effect of most meds.

Everything you have stated so far is either factually incorrect or a media misconception. I would like to help by suggesting lengthy reading on the following areas:

bodybuidling nutrition
cutting diets
logcial, progressive training
the role of supplements in this game
the real deal with gear and its side effects

you can but you will not gain on your current diet, unless of course you deem gains to be bodyweight alone.

Go back to the start, nail the lower end of the pyramid THEN top if off when you have a base, at this point steroids may be logical.
For now i deem this abuse and uneducated use

__________________
For every William Llewellyn there are 100 Willy Wonkers copy and pasting information they have no idea on yet are congratulated by 1000s of Umpa Lumpas who look like they have never seen inside of a gym.


“ a stark reflection of e-lifters using internet bodybuilding forums fancying themselves as gurus ” Lost Soul

The more posts I read on peoples steroid use the harder I find it to spot internet trolls

Lea

I take it I have been told off now by lostsoul....:(

I will write out 100 times I must do better.

I will sit in the corner and consider my future...lol

Seriously thanks for some of the posts in reply they were quite helpful. I am getting things together and have done some reasearch but by the looks of things not enough.

eating 5 or 6 times a day is hard with a 4yr old and the amount of travelling I do with my job. If I get the new job I am going for then I should be able to do something.

When I was 25 I was eating 6 times a day Protein shakes 3Xdaily training 4 days a week, cycling 20 miles a day...but I had no children and worked in a factory earning next to sod all...it also killed my relationship with my gf when I told her the gym came before taking her out to dinner!

Im 39 now and the thought of going back to that makes me smile, being coeliac is not going to help as breads, pasta, wheat and gluten based foods are out of the question so its potatoes, rice and gluten free stuff which have a tendency to be rice flour based.

I will do some pics and post soem before and after shots without gear and then have another conflab in a few months.

Lost Soul

Not telling you off mate, just seen a million and one guys go down a road they didnt need to or go down it before they needed to

your call but its comments like

which show you are not quite understanding the role of supplementation and steroids. A protein shake is no different to a serving of chicken

glutamine will do next to nothing for your physique and certainly nothing you can attribute specific gains at. Side effects from glutamine? its an amino acid found in varying degrees in protein rich foods

Again, you have probably purchased a product thinking its more than it is and what it will do for you

same with gear

__________________
For every William Llewellyn there are 100 Willy Wonkers copy and pasting information they have no idea on yet are congratulated by 1000s of Umpa Lumpas who look like they have never seen inside of a gym.


“ a stark reflection of e-lifters using internet bodybuilding forums fancying themselves as gurus ” Lost Soul

The more posts I read on peoples steroid use the harder I find it to spot internet trolls

Robsta

You and everyone else who asks a question it would seem......

__________________
If it has got four legs and is not a chair, if it has two wings and it flies but is not an aeroplane, and if it swims and is not a submarine, the Cantonese will eat it.
Prince Philip

Robsta9

Lost Soul

and you suggest we dont try and help educate people on the basics of training and diet and aid their uneducated abuse of gear?

__________________
For every William Llewellyn there are 100 Willy Wonkers copy and pasting information they have no idea on yet are congratulated by 1000s of Umpa Lumpas who look like they have never seen inside of a gym.


“ a stark reflection of e-lifters using internet bodybuilding forums fancying themselves as gurus ” Lost Soul

The more posts I read on peoples steroid use the harder I find it to spot internet trolls