JonJoe

Hi all just registered here, I am 21 and have finished my first course of steriods, I was taking 10 dbol a day 2ml virormone every 3 days and 2 ml deca a week.
Some body told me that taking dbol over a longer period than 4 weeks can feck your liver up.
I did put on a good amount of weight with this course. I was just wondering what you guys sugges for me to take next as it has been around 5 weeks since i finished my last course. I was having 5 protein shakes a day aswell is this nessacery:confused:

Thanks in advance Jon Joe

robdog

IMO protein shakes wont do alot for you mate you need whole food. Post up your diet in the diet forum and im sure you will get the answers you are looking for.

On the gear front 10 dbol a day for your first cycle is alot but you are right in thinking that you dot realy want to be doing it for weeks and weeks at a time because they are more toxic than injectables.

For your second cycle why not keep it simpe like

Weeks 1-8 500mg of Sustanon
Weeks 1-4 6 Dbol tabs a day
Weeks 1-7 200mg of Deca a week

You should grow nicely off that alone. its an easy trap to fall into is this more gear means more gains thinking but its not realy so. Dont think im getting at you either mate because i get carried away with doses too and need people to put me right.

do some reading of other posts and im sure you will come up with a load of second cycle suggestions.

Good luck mate and welcome to the board!!!

Cheater2K

I disagree there, shakes do wounders, but you do also need whole food. I like the shakes more for convineance, and i put a **** load of weight on with them.

JonJoe

Thanks for your comments, I read on the web that shakes are better for you than meals because it is already broken down there for goes staright into action. it also said that you need 1 gram of protein for every gram you weigh is this true,

Carnivore

nah, i agree with rob, shakes are alright but if given the choice id rather have a meal

DB

yeah robs right, meat is the best source of protien. ur building meat with meat how can it not work!!

Jimmy

shakes have there place....but in the ideal world 2kg red meat for me ED

shame the ideal world doesnt ever come along eh??

Greyphantom

youre not wrong there Jimmy... shakes are great but food is too... I use both... mmmm foood... mmmmm shakes..

Also did you do pct after your cycle...???

Greyphantom

PCT = Post Cycle Therapy...

JonJoe

pct no i didnt what is that (not to sound stuip or anything)

Carnivore

stuip? hehe

the use of nolva and clomid, bring down your estrogen levels, help bring back up your natural test production, helps to keep you gains

hackskii

5 shakes is pushing it.
I like meat better, tasts good with garlic.
Meat has zinc which strengthens the immune system and supports natural testosterone production.
Meat also has Iron in it which helps oxgen transfer in the blood system.
Many other things in it too like creatine. So for me whole foods are far better but in a pinch if you are low on the protein then bang a shake and this is ok after a workout too.

__________________
Scott

Greyphantom

Do a search and read through all the info also here are an article... now I am not a big fan of hcg but this has some good info... but still search out more info and then make some informed decisions and ask some informed questions... good luck...

PCT advice from endo…

This article is by SWALE who some of you might know from other boards, and actually runs an HRT clinic, so is very very knowledgeable on steroids, and getting people's endocrine systems back on track. Here is his guide:

"Since I've been hanging out here a bit lately, I've been getting quite a few emails from guys wanting individualized advice on their cycles. In the first place, I cannot design cycles, nor do I prescribe steroids (just ancillary medications). That would be a violation of my Oath as a physician, and DEA law to boot. Also, obviously I cannot afford to give away free Consultations. So, I'll post my PCT Protocols here, for anyone who may choose to use them.

Also, I'm just running to catch a plane for Las Vegas, attending the American Academy of Anti-Aging Medicine International Conference. I guess they are supposed to publish an article I wrote on how to administer TRT for men. Wish me luck!


I advise my AAS patients to use small amounts of HCG (250IU to 500IU) two days each week, right from the beginning of the cycle. This serves to maintain testicular form and function. It makes more sense to me to keep the horse in the barn, so to speak, then to have to chase it across three counties later on. I am also a big fan of maintaining estrogen within physiological ranges. Both therapies have been shown to hasten recovery.

Any more than 500IU of HCG per day causes too much aromatase activity. Some feel aromatase is actually toxic to the Leydig cells of the testes. You are then inducing primary hypogonadism (which is permanent) while treating steroid-induced secondary (hypogonadotrophic) hypogonadism (which is temporary--hopefully).

If 250IU or 500IU on two days each week isn’t enough to stave off testicular atrophy, then I recommend using it more days each week (as opposed to taking larger doses). In fact, I wouldn’t mind having a guy use 250IU per day ALL THROUGH the cycle. Those that have tell me they thus avoid that edgy, burned-out feeling they usually get. They also say they simply feel better each day. Subjective reports, to be sure, but they are hard not to appreciate. Especially when HCG is so inexpensive.

The testes are then ready, willing and able to again produce testosterone at the end of the cycle. LH levels rise fairly rapidly, but endogenous testosterone production is limited by lack of use. I also want to make sure a SERM, such as Clomid or Nolvadex, is at effective serum dosage (around 100mg QD for Clomid, 20-40mg QD for Nolvadex) when serum androgen levels drop to a concentration roughly equal to 200mg of testosterone per week. That is when androgenic inhibition at the HP no longer dominates over estrogenic antagonism with respect to inducing LH production. Of course, if the fellow has been doing Clomid or Nolvadex all along the way (and I now prefer Nolvadex over Clomid, due to the possibility of negative sides from the Clomid), he is all set to simply continue it at the end (no need to switch from one to the other). BTW, I see no evidence of any benefit in using BOTH SERM’s at the same time. I used to think a couple of weeks of the SERM was enough; now I like to see an entire month after the last shot of AAS (and migration of long to short esters as the cycle matures). Tapering the SERM is probably a good idea during the last week, as well.

I want my patients to stop taking HCG within a week after the end of the cycle. The testosterone production it induces will further inhibit recovery, as will using Androgel, or any other testosterone preparation, while in recovery. There is no escaping this, as there is no such thing as a “bridge”. Just because you are not inhibiting the HPTA for the entire 24 hours does not mean you are not suppressing it at all. IOW, you can’t “fool” the body—it is smarter than you are.

I like Arimidex during the cycle (in fact, consider use of an AI while taking aromatisables a necessity) but it ABSOLUTELY should not be used post cycle (even though it has been shown to increase LH production) because the risk of driving estrogen too low, and therefore further damaging an already compromised Lipid Profile, is too great (this also drives libido back into the ground—and we don’t want that, do we?).

All this is meant to get my guys through recovery as fast as possible (the real goal, yes?). So far, all of them who have tried it have reported they are recovering faster than when they have tried other protocols."

Cheater2K

lol, thats what i meant, use shakes as well as food, inbetween meals etc

Powders is a cheap alternaitive, buying 2kg of meat everyday wold cost a fortune.

DB

unless your training partners family own a butchers! :p