Lost Soul

yes you are wasting your money lb for £

best fat burner is cardio

best thermogenic is probably still ECA

dont recommend thyroid meds, in fact dont recommend ECA

just get in a calorie deficit and you will lose the weight

forced weight loss over a short period of time = catabolic

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barcz69

my mate is just about to start on the growth he is just a little confused at what roids if any to take with it. Also does he have to take insulin to see gud gains? Hes 5ft 6in and 14st 15% bf. Is 8iu a good dosage to go on he wants to know? thanks

hackskii

Oh man, slin is for advanced bodybuilders.
I do like GH myself, and I dont need to run anything over 2iu a day.
I do notice some injury recouperation benefits from it, yes there is some fat loss properties in it, long term use does work best, but then again there is some issue with long term use and insulin resistance.
That is all does related tho.
I love the stuff personally.
When I take it at night, I sleep deeper and have some crazy dreams.

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Lost Soul

If he doesnt know what gear to take with GH is he going to know about CHO requirements after insulin administartion

GH is fine stacked with any gear and the choice of gear should be based on:

goals
previous use
availability of quality gear

dose will depend on:

previous use
stats
goals
other compounds

AS for GH dosing 8iu EOD would be fine, 8iu ED would cripple his wallet and probably be wasted on anything other than an advanced BBer

4iu is a starting point for daily GH use and i strongly advise against slin at this point and whilst it does have a synergistic impact with GH unless you have it down to the T you are playing with dangerous areas

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cwoody123

In my view cardio is not needed to loose weight...i have noticed this on my most recent cut (Pics soon :-) lost over stone and half with no cardio at all and to be honest my body feels better for it...cardio can easily become catbolic.

There is been studies that prove VLCD + Weight training will allow you to loose fat whilst keeping existing muscle mass. From my most recent personal experience i lost no strength since the cut so...for me in any case the theory seems to hold

1927

NO CARDIO ????

christ thats a new way of looking at things...

aint heard that one before

1927

whats VLCD by the way ???

hackskii

Yah, cardio is actually not needed, you can do it once the diet stalls.
I lost a ton of weight a while ago and I had to drop the cardio as I was exceeding my weekly weight loss, too much cardio can be catabolic.
Back then I was eating 7 meals a day, and was very strict for about 6 months.

VLCD if very low calorie diet.

Problem with me is I am older, and my hormones are declining, any aggressive weight loss program I go on would result in more lean muscle mass than if I was younger.
On gear I have a hell of a time just maintaining bodyweight and not gaining too much weight.
Guess I could slow down the beer drinking.....lol.........nah

I cant use more than 2iu's of HGH without getting massive stiff joints.
Well, unless the GH is junk.
2iu's is the most I can handle a day.

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Lost Soul

Sorry my friend, i dont agree with any of that from science or from experience

VLCDs have not place in bodybuilding, are you sure you are not talking PSMF?

The suggestion of cardio being catabolic is a glib one as it would have to be excessive in length and intensity to lose muscle and anyone who is going catabolic with cardio is either unable to calculate calorie requirements, doing excessive cardio or simply over estimating muscle

cardio has mechanisms beyond simply being in a calorie deficit to free up stored body fat and whilst saying you dont have to do cardio to get cut is correct, suggesting it doesnt help is factually incorrect and applies to so very few

you have far more chance of losing muscle through being hypocaloric than you are to have a higher flux and include logical cardio

You have lost a stone and a half from your avatar picture?

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Lost Soul

technically speeking its a liquid diet below 800 calories per day but i think its been used in the wrong context in this thread

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cwoody123

Mate i aint talking shlt. There are so many varibles that constitute your daily calorific values that you could easily be put in a catabolic state. Plus a diet is easier to stick to if you don't have to do cardio.

Anyways what the f$ck do i know...im just a fat c*nt

http://www.jacn.org/cgi/content/full/18/2/115

hackskii

Easy woody, clam down mate.
When I was dieting I didnt need to do cardio, I lost just fine without it.

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Lost Soul

before we go any further, do you feel realistically that has anything to do with bodybuilding nutrition?

The subjects were mean age 38
8-90 women
hadnt trained before
they got them to train
they saw some results

thats the bottom line

shall we now put a heavily muscled seasoned trainer in the mix
stick them on 800 calories or less
make them train and see if they dont lose muscle?

from the text

I will not pass comment....lol...but it has no relevence to bodybuidling nutrition

you would kinda hope so as they havent trained before and any stimulation will give a positive increase in LMB whilst catabolism is eating the muscle away, so its 1 and a half step forward, 1 back

How can that be used as a cross over to bodybuilding nutrition?

No sh1t sherlock, hence why BBers use the theories of energy flux
as this point begins to highlight

then

what was the rest? water even though on less than 100g of carbs per day holding 2.7g ofwater per gram of glycogen

with the studies being carried out on obese women who have never trained NOT seasoned bodybuilders with RMRs and TDEEs way off the scale

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Lost Soul

leave the attitude out my friend, i will let it slide as i dont think you meant any malice

google flux, or energy flux and body composition

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cwoody123

lol im not being aggressive Hacks...just being cheeky...with the hope we can debate to the truth about what is the right way to do things. Sometimes a little banter can iniate progress.

I would say the older you are the more trouble you are going to have losing weight, but the main reason why older people get fat is because they become less active and loose muscle mass each year which inturn lowers there metabloic rate (Not in your case hacks ;-)

Had a few drinks tonight...lol...carb reloading :-)