Ecksarmy11

Currently on the following cycle:-
Week 1-8 400mg Tren EW, 500mg Sust EW
Week 1-4 40mg Dbol ED
Week 7-10 40mg Winny ED
Week 1-9 25mcg T3 EOD

Also using HCG @500iu 2 x EW & Liquid Adex @0.5mg EOD.

PCT will be:-
Week 11-12 Clomid 100mg ED, Nolva 40mg ED
Week 13-14 Clomid 50mg ED, Nolva 20mg ED

End of week 8 at the moment and the left nipple is a little bit sensitive. Feels like a small lump behind it as well but there's no visible difference to look at. Don't think I'm being paranoid as I can feel a small lump if I press my finger in just above the nipple.

First time on tren and I'm thinking it's possibly progest' related gyno from the tren. Used different test esthers, sust, dbol, decca, oxys, winny in the past with no probs. This is first time on tren.

Been using adex throughout this cycle so would of thought that would prevent any estrogen related gyno + never had a problem with any of the previous compounds before.

Been taking 200mg of vit B6 every day throughout and just increased it to 400mg 2 days ago, as I read somewhere it could assist with prevention of progest' related gyno.

Maybe should have done winny all the way through but too late now as I've only just started it a week ago.

Any advice much appreciated and the sooner the better.
I don't want to have nipples like Linda Lusardi by Monday morning.
Shouldn't joke really as it's a little bit worrying to say the least!

denny

Probably in your head. You wouldn't expect a lump from progestins before seeing an enlargement of the aereola.

Next time add primo and prov. Ease of the primo as you roll onto the winny. It will help with the gyno.

Could be a reaction to the HCG. Have you used this before?

Can you source letro/dostinex?

If you're really ****ting bricks, run to the chemist and claim you rode bareback last night and need a morning after pill spread asap.

hilly2008

And get some nolva if it gets worse start taking 40mg daily thats what i did on my last cycle when i started to get gyno and it went away in 2-3 weeks.

Ecksarmy11

Used HCG many times before so don't think it can be that.
Will get some letro and give that a whirl.

I've got nolva but didn't think that would work if it's the tren that's casued it?

Tinytom

Only thing that really worked for me was winstrol.

I tried bromo but that gave me BAD paranoia and restless sleep.

Nolva wont affect tren gyno at all.

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Ecksarmy11

Cheers Tom, I may increase the winny to 50mg ED then.
Is it worth going higher than 50mg ?

Harry

Bump the Adex up to 1mg ED for a start and then increase the B6 to 300mg ED and add winny 50mg ED. Covering both types there and hopefully holding the gyno at bay. Then the lump can be reduced once you have the Lethro. If it is Prolactin related then dostinex but see how you get on with the above first.

Aftershock

Whats the tren dose mate?

Obviously use the Winni thats a sensible move, and I see no problem with 75 or even 100mg ed in the initial week then drop it back down to 50-75mg.

A small dose of T3 will also help. The mechanisms by which T3 will help are complicated and not worth delving into but 12.5-25mcg ed is the dose you want.

It is unlikely that gyno is solely progesterone related its usually a combination of estrogen and progesterone. Its very difficult for progesterone to exert its negative effects in a low estrogen environment so it will pay to lower estrogen at the same time.

Don't touch Nova it can make the problem worse.

Adex is fine under normal circumstances but you may want to consider some letro now to kill the estrogen and take that out of the equastion. Driving estrogen very low comes with its own set of short term sides, ie loss of libedo, possible sore joints and poor lipid profile.However if you are at all like me when I had a gyno scare those things are secondary in the short term.

Of course you can also consider dropping the tren or reducing the dose, people always want something to counteract the sides but don't consider dropping the dose.

If you can get it there is an anti-progesterone called Mifepristone. I've not had the need to use it myself but it will directly combat progesterone and your looking at 20mg ed. Its not very common but its worth asking around.

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Aftershock

Ecksarmy11

Cheers Harry - reps for that.
Will up the adex to 1mg ED.
Already increased B6 to 400mg ED.
Got some liquid letro on the way. What sort of dose should I use for that ?

Ecksarmy11

Cheers Aftershock - reps for that.

Tren E dose was 400mg EW (2 x 200mg) but finished now.
Will increase the winny to 100mg for a week.
Been doing 25mcg of T3 EOD throughout.
Got some letro on it's way.

Harry

Cut and Paste: (Worked well for me):

Running letro to reverse gyno:
I am going to go over the three different scenarios which people could fit into. Remember regardless of what scenario you are in it is important that you begin taking the letro ASAP.

1. Already using an anti-e aside from letro.
2. Already using letro @ a dose of .25mg or .50mg ED.
3. Not running any estrogen protection.

1.
Day 1: .25mg Letro + anti-e*
Day 2: .50mg Letro
Day 3: 1.0mg Letro
Day 4: 1.5mg Letro
Day 5: 2.0mg Letro
Day 6: 2.5mg Letro **

2.
Day 1: .50mg Letro
Day 2: 1.0mg Letro
Day 3: 1.5mg Letro
Day 4: 2.0mg Letro
Day 5: 2.5mg Letro **

3.
Day 1: .50mg Letro
Day 2: 1.0mg Letro
Day 3: 1.5mg Letro
Day 4: 2.0mg Letro
Day 5: 2.5mg Letro **

*Regardless of the anti-e you are using it is important to still use it for the first day you begin letro as the letro will not have taken any effect and you by no means want your body to be without any protection when gyno is already prevalent.

** You will remain at this dose until gyno symptoms subside. Once you believe your gyno is gone it is important to stay at this dose for another 4-7 days to ensure all traces are gone. I recommend people with a bf% over 15 stay on for a week as it may be harder to judge completely whether the lump is completely gone. Once this period is over it will be important to taper letro down slowly rather than coming off it completely. Regardless of which manner you tapered up your dose you will all taper down in the same fashion.

Day 1: 2.0mg
Day 2: 1.5mg
Day 3: 1.0mg
Day 4: .50mg***
Day 5: .25mg
***You can remain at this dose or go down further to .25mg. It is really up to you at this point. They are both very common maintenance doses as an anti-e while on cycle. Personally I have stayed with .25mg and never had a problem.

Letro and the estrogen rebound:
With your estrogen being completely inhibited there is a definite estrogen rebound as your body tries to re-stabilize the testosterone:estrogen balance. We can prevent this rebound effect by supplementing further with another AI or SERM. So, I suggest that when you are coming to the end of your cycle you will more than likely be using Nolva in your PCT so just make sure that you begin taking nolva the last day you are going to take your letro and then continue on as you would with regular PCT.

Ecksarmy11

Another great post.
Gotta spread the luv though mate.

"I love this board" - said in a drunk American Hackski voice:beer1:

Aftershock

Myself I'd start the Letro at 1.25mg ed initially just till the symptoms start to subside and then reduce it down gradually.

Tapering off it is important to stop the estrogen rebound, but if your starting PCT when coming off the letro the PCT meds should stop that anyway..

Harry already said most of that I really should read "all" the posts before posting

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Aftershock

Pscarb

sorry mate for not commenting on this as requested i have been away...
this happened to me very recently and letro did the job and got rid of it straight away i used 1.25mg for 4 days then 4 days at 2.5mg

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Ecksarmy11

Started the letro at 1.25mg ED for 4 days and now upped it to 2.5mg ED.

Today is day 6 (couldn't start any earlier as I went away with the missus to a health spa last weekend - brilliant place but that's for a different thread)

Anyway, sensitivity is gone but I can still feel a small lump if I push my finger in just above the nipple. Still no visible signs of gyno IMO.

I have one more week to go of winny at 50mg ED, which takes me to end of week 10 and start of PCT.
I also added 100mg test prop E3D at week 8 and will finish that also at end of week 10.
I was doing 500iu HCG 2 x EW but decided to drop that last week.

My question is:-
Should I stay at 2.5mg ED until the lump is gone and how long should I wait? My planned PCT starts in 1 weeks time.

I will obviously taper the letro down per Harry's post.

PS
I was expecting libido to be completely dead but it doesn't seem too bad.