tren outcomes - Page 4 - UK-Muscle Body Building Community

Five-O · 13-01-2008, 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Z3R0-CooL

when talking about something toxic you are referring to the amount of stress it takes for your liver to remove it from ur bloodstream. Suppression ultimately means HPTA shutdown thus nuts shrinkage and LH/Testicle testosterone production. If your nuts have not shrunk it means that you are not "very" shutdown AFAIK. Also do you have any scientific studies that prove that tren is harsh on the kidneys? I havent been able to find one. Not saying that tren is awesome safe or anything. Im just asking for evidence cause i havent seen any.

Only things i've found:

"The points one may wish to consider during use of Fina is the low sterility of some home-brewed concoctions along with the already relatively painful injections (high alcohol content). This can lead to multiple problems when it is injected daily. Lumps due to plentiful same-site injections, abscesses and infections caused by faulty filtering and so on. Trenbolone is not particularly toxic though. Liver values are barely elevated while using it. Though there is no evidence or explanation to support this, some users reported a certain kidney-toxicity. Blood in urine and all that. While this was no doubt the result of a fake (Finaject used to be an often faked steroid shortly after its discontinuation) but I figured I'd mention it. Other than that mild androgenic effects such as acne and an increase in hair loss are noted as well."

"Short-term side effects include insomnia, high blood pressure, increased aggression, night sweats, and libido. However, since women will suffer virilization effects even at small doses, this drug should not be taken by a female. Urban wisdom/myth in bodybuilding culture, states that the use of the drug over extended periods of time can lead to kidney damage. The kidney toxicity has not yet been proven, and scientific evidence supporting the idea is suspiciously absent from the bodybuilding community that perpetuates this idea. The origin of this myth most likely has to do with the rust colored oxidized metabolites of trenbolone which are excreted in urine and often mistaken for blood. After Schänzer (Clin Chem 1996; 42(7): 1001-1020, Metabolism of anabolic androgenic steroids) trenbolone and 17epi-trenbolone are both excreted (in urine) as conjugates that can be hydrolyzed with beta-glucuronidase. This implies that trenbolone leaves the body as beta-glucuronides or sulfates, that means mostly non metabolized."

what do you mean looking for evidence??? Read the other posts and 99% will say thta Tren is the most potent steroid out there, I can't remember seeing anyone saying it was toxic either....just harsh, and that to me means harder recovery, and other typical sides including high BP, aggression etc.

Scientific proof its hard on the kidneys?.......dark p1ss, lower back pain in a few users, IMO scientific proof is a load of b0llocks, other users experiences is best, ppl that have used the stuff and found out the ins and outs.

It takes my nuts 7 weeks to shrink on normal Test but I know that the ball has started rolling to shut me down well before that, don't be fooled into thinking your only mildy shut down.

What I think you should do is listen to the experiences that others bring to this thread mate, id highly recommend some HCG if running tren.

Andy1972 · 13-01-2008, 03:03 PM

i love tren but 6/8 weeks is the most i will run it for, then the sides start to outweigh the gains for me.

6 weeks of sweat and no sleep is enough for me.

darkstar · 13-01-2008, 03:55 PM

I would really like some good links on exactly what tren does to kidneys liver etc.
I cannot seem to find much good information on tren.
I just hear over and over how harsh it is.
It was pretty harsh on me at 150mg ED ,but at 75 ED skipping one day a week i hardly feel any negative sides.
My left forarm has started to cramp alot because ,i think of over growth.Its huge.
Im not going to run it more than 12 weeks ,but i would love if you guys can look up some really good links/info on tren sides and how to combat them.
This is my first cyc. on tren, and ive grown more in 8 weeks than i usually do in 6 months.
Since we are on this topic lets get some real cold hard facts on the table.
Thank You Darkstar

**Pscarb** · 13-01-2008, 05:06 PM

Zero my evicence has come from blood test results after a tren ace course my liver values are up and i have the HPTA of a newborn, you say that you have used Tren for 11 weeks and your nuts are the same size ...so what this does not mean you have no side effects as the leydig cells are only about 10%of the overall size of your nuts what bloods have you run to see if you have infact crashed which after 11 weeks you will have....so what have your last blood tests shown you??

it is common sense that after 11 weeks of any steroid (apart from proviron) you will have side effects which will include suppression or a crashed HPTA...

Five-O · 13-01-2008, 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pscarb

when i mean toxic i mean blood test results after a tren ace course my liver values are up and i have the HPTA of a newborn, you say that you have used Tren for 11 weeks and your nuts are the same size ...so what this does not mean you have no side effects as the leydig cells are only about 10% of the overall size of your nuts what bloods have you run to see if you have infact crashed which after 11 weeks you will have....

it is common sense that after 11 weeks of any steroid (apart from proviron) you will have side effects which will include suppression or a crashed HPTA...

Better worded than I could

Z3R0-CooL · 13-01-2008, 07:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Five-O

what do you mean looking for evidence??? Read the other posts and 99% will say thta Tren is the most potent steroid out there, I can't remember seeing anyone saying it was toxic either....just harsh, and that to me means harder recovery, and other typical sides including high BP, aggression etc.

Scientific proof its hard on the kidneys?.......dark p1ss, lower back pain in a few users, IMO scientific proof is a load of b0llocks, other users experiences is best, ppl that have used the stuff and found out the ins and outs.

It takes my nuts 7 weeks to shrink on normal Test but I know that the ball has started rolling to shut me down well before that, don't be fooled into thinking your only mildy shut down.

What I think you should do is listen to the experiences that others bring to this thread mate, id highly recommend some HCG if running tren.

no offence mate but word of mouth is not really what you should be listening to when it comes to steroids.... i have heard users state that they got liver cancer on testosterone.. Does that mean they are right as well...?

I do have tons of PCT meds including HCG, nolva and clomid and arimidex. Obviously PCT is part of any cycle. I was just asking for evidence of what you said. not anecdotal information.

I am not saying that tren is safe, non toxic or anything else. Im just asking for evidence for my own curiousity. Tren could be the worst drug ever created. but i dont know that for sure up until i see evidence.

Five-O · 13-01-2008, 07:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Z3R0-CooL

no offence mate but word of mouth is not really what you should be listening to when it comes to steroids.... i have heard users state that they got liver cancer on testosterone.. Does that mean they are right as well...?

I do have tons of PCT meds including HCG, nolva and clomid and arimidex. Obviously PCT is part of any cycle. I was just asking for evidence of what you said. not anecdotal information.

I am not saying that tren is safe, non toxic or anything else. Im just asking for evidence for my own curiousity. Tren could be the worst drug ever created. but i dont know that for sure up until i see evidence.

How the fvck do you think ppl get feedback on which stuff works well??? By conversing and sharing experiences thats how, not from Doctor Hilary bloody Jones, I totally disagree with what your saying, these forums are built around ppl's reaction to compounds and not medical evidence.

I bet you could count the no' of ppl who got liver cancer by taking test on one hand tbh, Test has been shown to re-juvenate middle aged men and give them a new lease of life, so to speak, so are all the HRT doctors out there wrong aswell?

The best ppl to compare how things work are the end users, not the doctors doing totally irrelevent research with regards to gear, not everyone out there is a moron, there are some very intelligent fellas on this board alone, who make educated decisions whether or not to juice.

Tbh, it sounds like you started using Tren without properly looking into the compound, or you wouldn't have started asking questions 11 weeks into a cycle, if you feel fine on it then bully for you, but I know from personal experience how I react from it, I do not need a doctor to tell me what he thinks will happen.

Z3R0-CooL · 13-01-2008, 07:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pscarb

Zero my evicence has come from blood test results after a tren ace course my liver values are up and i have the HPTA of a newborn, you say that you have used Tren for 11 weeks and your nuts are the same size ...so what this does not mean you have no side effects as the leydig cells are only about 10%of the overall size of your nuts what bloods have you run to see if you have infact crashed which after 11 weeks you will have....so what have your last blood tests shown you??

it is common sense that after 11 weeks of any steroid (apart from proviron) you will have side effects which will include suppression or a crashed HPTA...

I see. Im not arguing mate dont get me wrong. But where you running a tren only cycle so you can say for sure that it was the tren that raised your liver values? Off course im not saying that i have no side effects after 11 weeks. Quite the opposite. All i said is that it is not TOXIC and asked you what u were implying by "harsh". Nandrolone by that sense is extremely harsh as well but again it is not toxic.

It is indeed common sense that after taking any steroid for 11 weeks you will have side effects. Havent had any blood test to see what sides i have had from tren as this is the 1st time i used it @ 350mg/week. I am definitely suppressed, possibly shut down but that happens with any androgenic AFAIK. quite possibly with tren more. im not arguing.

i dont think testicular shrinkage has much to do with leydig cells though. fair enough leydig cells are 10%, that i didnt know, but even so, testicular shrinkage occurs when the testicles dont receive LH and signals to produce test thus atrophy occurs in its wholeness. Its not just the 10% that shrinks. If they havent shrunk at all then they surely are receiving "some" signal to continue functioning. right?

please do take this as im trying to "prove" tren is safe or anything. All i stated is that it is not TOXIC.. thats it. nothing more nothing less

Z3R0-CooL · 13-01-2008, 07:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Five-O

How the fvck do you think ppl get feedback on which stuff works well??? By conversing and sharing experiences thats how, not from Doctor Hilary bloody Jones, I totally disagree with what your saying, these forums are built around ppl's reaction to compounds and not medical evidence.

I bet you could count the no' of ppl who got liver cancer by taking test on one hand tbh, Test has been shown to re-juvenate middle aged men and give them a new lease of life, so to speak, so are all the HRT doctors out there wrong aswell?

The best ppl to compare how things work are the end users, not the doctors doing totally irrelevent research with regards to gear, not everyone out there is a moron, there are some very intelligent fellas on this board alone, who make educated decisions whether or not to juice.

Tbh, it sounds like you started using Tren without properly looking into the compound, or you wouldn't have started asking questions 11 weeks into a cycle, if you feel fine on it then bully for you, but I know from personal experience how I react from it, I do not need a doctor to tell me what he thinks will happen.

chill out bro...You can disagree all u want. not saying u r not entitled to ur opinion. But you cant expect everyone to react to any drug the same way as you cause at the end of the day i could also say i know people that took tren for 50 weeks and are still OK.. doesnt mean anything..

As with any drug where steroid or other anecdotal information is not the way to go. Irrelevant research ? So a set of doctors conducting research on a specific drug to see its side effects is irrelevant research? I dont get you.

What questions did i ask buddy? All i said was that tren is not toxic.. period. I asked pscarb what he implied by "harsh". If you think that i started taking it without knowing as much i can possibly gather about it then u r wrong. Go back read what i said again and take a chill pill.

If you trust what a random person tells u about any drug and dont trust scientific research that is ur right. You cant expect everyone to be like you though. Maybe tren affected you badly. Doesnt mean it will affect everyone the same way.

Five-O · 13-01-2008, 07:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Z3R0-CooL

chill out bro...You can disagree all u want. not saying u r not entitled to ur opinion. But you cant expect everyone to react to any drug the same way as you cause at the end of the day i could also say i know people that took tren for 50 weeks and are still OK.. doesnt mean anything..

As with any drug where steroid or other anecdotal information is not the way to go. Irrelevant research ? So a set of doctors conducting research on a specific drug to see its side effects is irrelevant research? I dont get you.

What questions did i ask buddy? All i said was that tren is not toxic.. period. I asked pscarb what he implied by "harsh". If you think that i started taking it without knowing as much i can possibly gather about it then u r wrong. Go back read what i said again and take a chill pill.

If you trust what a random person tells u about any drug and dont trust scientific research that is ur right. You cant expect everyone to be like you though. Maybe tren affected you badly. Doesnt mean it will affect everyone the same way.

I have been around these boards/forums long enough to know who talks sh1te, and who are good lads.

Ill leave it at that, my last point though, is this, take away these forums and then see how much info there is about compounds etc. Most medical research is either done on animals or totally irrelevant to running a cycle.

My argument is that you seem to want to totally disregard peoples experiences in favour of medical evidence, if this is the case, why do you bother loggin onto a forum? Why not just google what your looking for? :confused:

People do react differently, thats nailed on, but you won't find many ppl who DO NOT share the same sides/experiences with Tren.

**Pscarb** · 13-01-2008, 08:05 PM

you said in your post on page 3 of this thread -

Quote:

Originally Posted by Z3R0-CooL

been running tren ace for 11 weeks now with no side effects whatsoever

but now you say in your last reply yo me

Quote:

Off course im not saying that i have no side effects after 11 weeks. Quite the opposite

so i am confused did you have side effects or not ??

you said in one reply

Quote:

my nuts are still same size

in another post you say

Quote:

If your nuts have not shrunk it means that you are not "very" shutdown AFAIK

although in your last reply to me you say

Quote:

I am definitely suppressed, possibly shut down but that happens with any androgenic AFAIK

so again you can see the confusion....

to answer your question yes i have done a Tren only cycle and yes i did get my bloods tested and yes my liver values where high....

now i am all for scientific studies but without anecdotal evidence on real bodybuilders in the real world they mean nothing....what does annoy me is when anyone says they are not shutdown without the completing Blood tests as there is no other way to tell your shutdown status for sure....

you have said in your posts that you can use tren Ace for 11 weeks without any side effects or shutdown this is completely wrong it will give a newbie the wrong impression and that is dangerous.....

like you i am not arguing but i have been around a very long time and i can most definitely backup what i say with real life evidence....

**Robsta** · 13-01-2008, 08:25 PM

Good post Paul...
That's my test, tren 12 weeker out the window now then....maybe

Z3R0-CooL · 13-01-2008, 08:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pscarb

you said in your post on page 3 of this thread -
but now you say in your last reply yo me
so i am confused did you have side effects or not ??

you said in one reply
in another post you say
although in your last reply to me you say so again you can see the confusion....

to answer your question yes i have done a Tren only cycle and yes i did get my bloods tested and yes my liver values where high....

now i am all for scientific studies but without anecdotal evidence on real bodybuilders in the real world they mean nothing....what does annoy me is when anyone says they are not shutdown without the completing Blood tests as there is no other way to tell your shutdown status for sure....

you have said in your posts that you can use tren Ace for 11 weeks without any side effects or shutdown this is completely wrong it will give a newbie the wrong impression and that is dangerous.....

like you i am not arguing but i have been around a very long time and i can most definitely backup what i say with real life evidence....

i see what ur saying. u r quite right. I didnt explain myself properly.

what i meant i had no side effect i meant in terms of, increased blood pressure, rage, testicular shrinkage, urine blood, insomnia, loss of libido, acne or tren-dick. I did though like i said got tren cough and night sweats.

I might be wrong and i havent had many cycles under my belt to be able to back everything up in terms of personal side-effects.

My last cycle i didnt shutdown and it was 12 week of test @ 500mg with winny last 6 weeks. and my testicles did not shrink then either. blood test during cycle (9 weeks in) my blood tests showed normal LH in my blood and i wasnt taking HCG during cycle.

I said i havent noticed any testicular shrinkage thus i can only assume that i am not completely shutdown. thats what i meant. Suppressed quite likely but not shutdown. Im saying thats just me at the moment. dont know whats gonna be like tomorrow.

I will do blood tests before and after PCT for liver/kidneys and 2-3 weeks after PCT again for same inc full hormonal profile. Reason is that nolva as you know is indeed hepatotoxic.

For newbies: Tren just like any other steroid affect people differently. Tren is a serious drug and should be taken seriously and according to guidelines. It may be harsh to the kidneys (according to respected users but lack of scientific evidence), it is harsh on the HPTA (just like most androgens in the negative feedback loop), BUT it is NOT toxic (hepatotoxic) based on scientific evidence.

I hope that clears things up.

jjb1 · 13-01-2008, 09:04 PM

can you post the tren only blood results please ?

im 6 weeks into tren test and i havent had bloods but i have a massive sex drive still 300mg hasnt touched that 1 bit, i know some say there sex drive is killed but im far from it

still dont think to much of tren though really

Z3R0-CooL · 13-01-2008, 09:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Five-O

I have been around these boards/forums long enough to know who talks sh1te, and who are good lads.

I have been on these forums 2 years longer than you. Doesnt mean anything though in terms of knowledge.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Five-O

Ill leave it at that, my last point though, is this, take away these forums and then see how much info there is about compounds etc. Most medical research is either done on animals or totally irrelevant to running a cycle.

Clin Chem 1996; 42(7): 1001-1020, Metabolism of anabolic androgenic steroids

was done on humans and specifically included Trenbolone.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Five-O

My argument is that you seem to want to totally disregard peoples experiences in favour of medical evidence, if this is the case, why do you bother loggin onto a forum? Why not just google what your looking for? :confused:

I do not disregard what people are saying and when it comes to dosages, stacks and certainly other info i ask experienced steroid users i.e. pscarbs posts, hacksii and bbigman over @ MT. But i do regard medical controlled studies to be a more appropriate source of valid information.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Five-O

People do react differently, thats nailed on, but you won't find many ppl who DO NOT share the same sides/experiences with Tren.

I know personally 2 people that run tren-test cycle with anadrol in beginning an winny at the end for 24 weeks straight and their blood tests for kidneys where normal. I know 6 others than run tren for 8-16 weeks and they didnt have kidney issues either. Still.. thats doesnt mean much..

13-01-2008, 03:03 PM	#47 (permalink)
Andy1972 Gym Addict Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 116	Re: tren outcomes i love tren but 6/8 weeks is the most i will run it for, then the sides start to outweigh the gains for me. 6 weeks of sweat and no sleep is enough for me.

13-01-2008, 03:55 PM	#48 (permalink)
darkstar Gym Addict Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 330	Re: tren outcomes I would really like some good links on exactly what tren does to kidneys liver etc. I cannot seem to find much good information on tren. I just hear over and over how harsh it is. It was pretty harsh on me at 150mg ED ,but at 75 ED skipping one day a week i hardly feel any negative sides. My left forarm has started to cramp alot because ,i think of over growth.Its huge. Im not going to run it more than 12 weeks ,but i would love if you guys can look up some really good links/info on tren sides and how to combat them. This is my first cyc. on tren, and ive grown more in 8 weeks than i usually do in 6 months. Since we are on this topic lets get some real cold hard facts on the table. Thank You Darkstar

13-01-2008, 05:06 PM	#49 (permalink)
Pscarb UK-Muscle Moderator and NABBA Champion Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 9,217	Re: tren outcomes Zero my evicence has come from blood test results after a tren ace course my liver values are up and i have the HPTA of a newborn, you say that you have used Tren for 11 weeks and your nuts are the same size ...so what this does not mean you have no side effects as the leydig cells are only about 10%of the overall size of your nuts what bloods have you run to see if you have infact crashed which after 11 weeks you will have....so what have your last blood tests shown you?? it is common sense that after 11 weeks of any steroid (apart from proviron) you will have side effects which will include suppression or a crashed HPTA... __________________ To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. Nutrition is your greatest anabolic agent; everything else is just the icing on the cake Last edited by Pscarb; 13-01-2008 at 05:10 PM.

13-01-2008, 08:25 PM	#57 (permalink)
Robsta Moderator Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Bedford Posts: 4,651	Re: tren outcomes Good post Paul... That's my test, tren 12 weeker out the window now then....maybe __________________ Robsta

13-01-2008, 09:04 PM	#59 (permalink)
jjb1 LIVING THE DREAM Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: uk Posts: 2,146	Re: tren outcomes can you post the tren only blood results please ? im 6 weeks into tren test and i havent had bloods but i have a massive sex drive still 300mg hasnt touched that 1 bit, i know some say there sex drive is killed but im far from it still dont think to much of tren though really __________________ work hard, better your self, be all you can be.......but be happy doing it To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. fitness farm gyms ltd peakphysique gym bodytone