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05-08-2007, 12:10 AM
| #1 (permalink) |
| Newbie Trainer Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 29
 | Have messed up and need help/advice tren/gyno Alright lads I've messed up and need your help and advice, its looking like, or is that feeling like I'm getting the first signs of gyno on a course of trenbolone and anavar.. Let me give you a little potted history and a bit of explanation which may hep you to understand where I am now and how I got into this situation... Many many years ago I used to compete, nothing special, a few local Nabba shows and back then of course I used to take roids to facilitate this and to make sure that I wasn't standing on stage looking like I was doing nothing more than waiting for a bus whilst wearing a pair of very skimpy trunks... So, roids were a necessity but what I found in my time was that I was very sensitive to anything that was high androgenic, as much as I would of loved to have used test and other heavier drugs I found that one injection would bloat me up, make my nipps react like crazy and I would look and feel generally sh!te.. So in my time (which was around the time of the dinasours, Jurassic if my memory serves me correctly) the list of usable roids for me consisted of nothing more than Primobolan, Deca, Winstrol, Stromba and Anavar.. maybe there were some others but time has dulled my brain and these are all that I can currently remember... Now back then roids were underground.. no I mean really underground, nobody admitted to taking them, of course we all knew that we did, but you had to be in certain circles to even be able to discuss them with each other, in whispers.... I seem to remember owning a book that was actually called 'The Underground Steroid Handbook' or some such rubbish.... This book was our bible... there was no internet back then, there was no open and frank discussions like I see now, it was a black art whispered about in dark corners between men wearing baggy tops and even baggier tracksuit bottoms, the likes of that worn by a certain gentleman called MC Hammer... ( I can hear the younguns saying "MC Who??") Steroids.... Discussed quietly but resilutely rejected and scorned should we be asked by an anyone 'outside' of the circle.. Steroids were frowned upon, sneerd at, but they were the advantage of the hallowed few who existed within.... The Circle.... Fortunately times have changed, OMG how times have changed... So much knowledge and depth of experience at hand on this here information super highway thingy thats it's disgusting that someone as reasonably intelligent as myself has screwed up so badly... Anyways, back to the potted history..... I left the world of bodybuilding for good, thinking that I would never return, not intentionally, it just happened that way.... many years past and I lost everything, my physique looked like I'd never lifted a weight in my life, my only remnants of a great little contest winning physique was a few battered photographs, some droopy man boobs and a few "Do you know what I used to be able to squat" stories.... About 13-14 months ago in my late 40's I decided that as a holiday was approaching that I would try and remove this large growth that had developed between my chest and hips, I hoped that having removed it I may once more be able to look down and actually see my penis as I urinated.. I pondered on whether I could achieve a physique that would at least allow me to take my shirt off without cringing and feeling like the world was pointing and laughing.. So, with trepidation I hit a gym local to my place of work and started working out... man oh man!!! by the end of an hour I couldn't beleive that I hadn't been doing this for the last decade or more... the clanging of the steel, the smells, the grunts, but most of all..... the pump!! In an instant I was hooked again, I started on a long and torturous path of self reclamation, I changed my eating habits, my life habits, everything that I had been doing wrong in life got changed... The gym, my nutrition and my workouts became my No2 priority.. (No 1 is my wife and my little boy.. sorry ) and everything else in life got reshuffled to suit.. Anyway, thanks to a combination of what used to be great genetics, a certain amount of muscle memory, a rigorous nutritional regime, lots of hard and regular training and I've achieved a physique that I'm actually proud of.. not quite single BF figures but I'm actually carrying a six pack... (Remember the not being able to see own penis problem??) and I'm regularly asked by strangers if I work out... Hmmmm, thinking about this, does the fact that they talk with a lisp, wear cowboy hats and have limp wrists be something that I should be concerned about?? .... Seriously though, I'm actually looking like a body builder again, wide shoulders, narrow hips, moving some decent weights and actually looking and feeling much much younger than my years... Life is good.... So, why did I f**k up?? Well the last time I went on a fat ripping exercise about 4.5 months ago.. (Again for a holiday... vanity is a orrible thing isn't it??) I got into great shape, got myself really tight, I alternately used ECA stacks and Clen which worked wonders, these combined with daily a.m. cardio sessions and a very stricted nutritional regime (I even stopped drinking alcohol for 3 months god help me!!!) helped to rip the fat from me.. Now on the one hand I was deliriously happy, I'd gone from a man with boobs and an ever increasing waistline to a man who's intercostals and abbs were prominant body parts, I now had a very vascular and athetlic looking physique, great eh?!?.. So Dave, what was the problem then mate???... Well I lost masses of tissue.... Now I knew from my contest days that it requires a loss of overall size to get into shape but guys, seriously, I looked ill.... Before I started my holiday preparation, I'd packed on loads of size, old muscles grew like they had only been sleeping for all of these years, I was amazed at how quickly I grew, very soon I was too big for certain clothes, while others, namely trousers hung off me like they belonged to someone else.. I loved the growth, the fullness, the new bigger looking me, so loosing the amount of tissue that I did in the chase for low BF's hurt and I swore that the next time I went for the ripped look I'd give myself a helping hand... Now not too long ago had you asked me, I would of been genuine when I told you that I would never take steroids.. ever!.. I used them in my youth, I used them for competition but I wouldn't use them now... Hmmmm.... well guess what, I changed my mind.. but now I'm sitting here kind of regretting that decsion, thinking that maybe I should of just stuck to my original thought process as I've jumped in and hurt myself.... A guy in the gym... yeah yeah we all know one... told me that he could get me a stack that he was about to use himself... It was a mix of Trenbolone, Winstrol and Anavar orals.. before I said yes I wanted to do some research... I knew Anavar, I used to use it, I knew Winstrol, I used to use it, the new drug to me was Trenbolone but after doing a google on it all I seemed to read was great things, it didn't aromatise (the magic word for me, as anything that aromatised hurt me way back when..) It made you big, strong, vascular etc etc etc... "Give me some of that there Trenbolone" I hollowed, "Hold the Whinney but add the Anavar"... I grunted as I waved my pound notes in his face... So.. A few days later the big man turned up with my order, a Tesco bag with syringes and pins, a bottle of Tri-Tren and a large white tub of Anavar in the bottom.. Greedily I got them into me and within a week I felt the changes... I'm about 4 weeks into my cycle (Tren every 4th day, 3x10mg Anavar ED) and at the moment I'm feeling (if I may say so myself...) F.E.C.K.I.N H.U.G.E..... Still 6 weeks to go before my hols but I'm looking tighter than this time last time, arms are riddled with big veins and I'm very very happy with how I'm looking... OKaaaay.... and your problem is??? My problem is that my nipples have gotten extremely sore, well not exactly my nipples, if I stretch my arm out and back then my nipples move somewhat, revealing (horror of horrors) a little lump which is really really sore to the touch.. Stunned and full of fear I told the guy at the gym about it.. "Nah can't be" he tells me, "This sh!t doesn't aromatise" he adds.. "Well thats what I thought" I reply "But they hurt like hell and there are little lumps".. So its fire up Google time and I type the search words.. "Trenbolone & Gyno" What!!!! All of a sudden I reading about this Progesterone Gyno, apparantly even harder to deal with than Estrogen induced gyno... thats right, it doesn't aromatise androgens into estrogens.. oh no, it does something that I've never even heard of before and its bitchin.. literally!!.... So gents, this is where I'm at, I should be on top of the world, I've changed my life style, changed my physique, rolled back the years and looking better than I've looked in more than a decade, I'm bigger, stronger, fitter than I can remember being.. yet now it looks like I'm going to grow myself a fine pair of titties just when I thought I'd seen the last of man boobs, only this time theres a danger that the f**kers will lactate!!!! Please help!! I'm reading about Dostinex, about Letrozole, I'm reading that the general stuff won't help, don't bother with Nolvodex they say, its useless and so on and so forth... I'm confused and to tell the truth I'm kinda freaking a little bit, what are my next steps, I'm of course assuming cessation of the trenbolone, but what do I replace it with to stop my body crashing from a sudden lack of roid input?? Are these lumps (albiet tiny) permanant?? will the above Dostinex etc reverse the problem or just stop it getting worse, what are my next steps? where, to whom do I turn???? Where on gods green earth do I get my sweaty little hands on the likes of Dostinex?!?!?!? I'm feeling really feckin stupid at the moment, that fact that I've walked blindly into something like this with so much experience out there to tap into is beyond stupid.. I'm seriously hoping that you lads out there can pull me out of this ankle deep sh!t that I seem to have gotten myself into and put me back onto the straight and narrow.. Anyway, sorry for the War & Peace length of diatribe that you have endured to get to this point but heres hoping you guys can fix me up.. seriously!! All the best from.... Stoopid! Last edited by Dave Williamson; 05-08-2007 at 12:28 AM. |
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05-08-2007, 12:55 AM
| #2 (permalink) |
| Bigger, Better, Stronger  Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: North
Posts: 1,940
  | Re: Have messed up and need help/advice tren/gyno Letro will help nolva is no good for tren gyno
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05-08-2007, 09:23 AM
| #3 (permalink) | |
| UK-Muscle Moderator  Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Forest gym crawley
Posts: 4,420
 | Re: Have messed up and need help/advice tren/gyno Quote:
LOL...is that all you can say after he has written that masterpiece? it was almost as captivating as harry potter!!! Dave....oh Dave i am not your age, prob around 15 years younger...but when i started gear back in the early 90's, we were also just as confused...and left in the dark! I have always watched the aromatising compounds....and i also read up on drugs like tren/deca/oxy....and the fact that they didnt aromatise as a result, i also have gyno on both sides....when on a cycle they are about the size of a medium marble...when off cycle, a small marble the problem with tren (as is oxy/anapolon) is that it is a derrivative of nandrolone...which we now know to be a catalyst for progesterone related gyno.....some say oxy causes progesterone gyno...others say its estrogen natrually raising itself to balance out the high test levels...either way, it should have been clear to us that a non aromatising steroid can cause bewbies!!! Tri tren (which i havent used) sounds as though its a muti estered tren...so you will probably suffer for a few weeks yet...and as you seem sensative in the titty area, may also be cursed with a rebound effect when it leaves your system all the same....i suggest you STOP THE TREN NOW!! carry on with the var...maybe add some methanolone (primo)...you can get UG primo from your source i would have thought get the letro in now....do a search on the net as its not illegal and can be bought mail order from the states..maybe uk also but not sure on that i dont know enough on dostinex...ask moderator 'Hackski' as he is of a simillar age...and is a fountain of knowledge on such things also moderator 'aftershock'....he is the walking steroid dictionary LOL i seem to remember him saying that winny and masteron can fight progesterone and estrogen...but i am soooo out of the steroidscene these days i have forgotten the chances are...if you stop now...the gyno will stay very small and un noticable to others (you will always see it) good luck....and stay here on ukm as there is loads for you to lesrn....and the lads would welcome you experienced input maybe scan in some of your pics and get them up in the gallery 
__________________ To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. 'Genetics is the science of heredity and variation in living organisms. Inheritance in organisms occurs by means of discrete traits, called genes.' Last edited by Jimmy; 05-08-2007 at 09:29 AM. | |
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05-08-2007, 09:25 AM
| #4 (permalink) |
| Getting HUGE!  Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: E-Sussex UK
Posts: 2,739
| Re: Have messed up and need help/advice tren/gyno Thats a funny story Dave, gave me a chuckle this morning! (not the gyno part) As Del said Nolv may not help as it blocks estrogen at the receptor not progesterone, but it wouldn't hurt either? I would run it at 60mg per day to starve the gyno of estrogen. From anecdotal evidence, I have read if you reduce one you reduce the other anyway. Progesterone gyno can be prevented by taking Proviron in your cycle at a dose of 25-50mg per day. Start with 25 and go from there. Was reading on a US forum that Progesterone gyno can also be prevented/treated with substances called Dostinex, RU-486 and Bromo? Although I do not know what they are and vitamin B6 at 200mcg per day?? Bump for the guru's. Letro will reduce circulating Estrogen so may help, but dont take Nolv and Letro together. Found this post here that may help also: Post by Pheedno. Always a pleasure reading his posts... I would like to cear up a few misconceptions about progesterone and gynecomastia. Their is absolutely no steroid that aromatizes into progesterone. The reason for this is that progesteron does not have an aromatic A ring. So toss that myth out the window. Tren? Deca? Sorry but it just doesn't happen. Now Tren and Deca bind pretty well to the PR. They are progestins in their own right without undergoing any structural changes, but their affinity is MUCH weaker than progesterone itself. Even more so when nandrolone is reduced by 5-alpha reductase into DHN. Their is a small chance of progestogenic activity that could aid in manifesting a mass in the mammry IF estrogen is present in supraphysiological amounts, without proper ratio to testosterone but I have never see a documented case of progestogenic gynecomastia. The reason for this is that the PR has two isoforms. The PR-A and PR-B. PR-B mediates stimulatory effects of progestins; PR-A which is bound with progestins or anti-progestins inhibits PR-B, and PR-A is dominant,. The response to progesterone is determined by the relative expression of the two isoforms. There is a direct relationship between the PR isoforms and steroid concentrations an this direct relationship suggests high progesterone concentrations, but this will induce the expression of PR-A, which represses transcription of PR-B, which in turn supresses PR function and progestin effect With initial administration of nandrolone or it's dirivitives, I could see an expression of PR-B but a rapid rise in PR-A will ultimately supress the function of the PR. IMO, you would need a high ratio of the two before concerns, and this is a bit more of a possiblity with the begining of administration. In this time of vulnerability, rest assured in aromatase inhibitors as progesterone is an E2 agonist so the utilization of an AI will help. I personally don't think the concern is warranted though Their are 4 combinations of hormones that cause gyno- Estrogen, Progesterone, Prolactin, and IGF. Nandrolone is a weak progestin, which agonizes the PRL, it also raises IGF. Progesterone induced gyno is not really of a concern given binding affinity to the PR and the mechanism of the two isoforms. The production of prolactin is a deffinate risk. Not only can it be an inductor for gyno along side estrogen, IGF, and pogesterone; this chance is increased as prolactn lowers testosterone. So you need to make sure to take proper precautions to not only keep estrogen in check, but prolactin as well. hth SD
__________________ I don't like Sports and I am not a Doctor! To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. You expressed and challenged yourself, startled the dozing muscles and welcomed the sweet pain of gain. Boredom begets mediocrity. Enemies both, they deserve swift eradication. Let's hit the weights and build some muscle. Race ya to the bench press. Dave Draper A goal casually set and lightly taken will be freely abandoned at the first obstacle. Zig Ziglar Any advice given is for information only, always seek the advice of your medical practitioner. Use this My Protein refferer code and get a 5% DISCOUNT on your first order! MP2819 Last edited by SportDr; 05-08-2007 at 09:27 AM. |
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05-08-2007, 12:54 PM
| #5 (permalink) |
| Feeling Slutty  Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,440
| Re: Have messed up and need help/advice tren/gyno I think this is the biggest post I've ever seen. Nolva did slow down and take away a little of the gyno issue I had with treh. Letro was the money though. I've used tren 3 times in the past before this last time with no issues. I decided to try to give it a go without running proviron for the first time. Big mistake. Running nolvadex during cycle is no substitute for an AI. I figured I wasn't prone to gyno. Just because I went 7 years without any problems doesn't mean I'm not susceptible to gyno. It only means that my proviron worked.
__________________ one in the pink. two in the stink. |
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05-08-2007, 12:58 PM
| #6 (permalink) |
| Newbie Trainer Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: frog city
Posts: 10
| Re: Have messed up and need help/advice tren/gyno "...only this time theres a danger that the f**kers will lactate!!! " Can somebody make clear this for me once and for all :I always thought that the main symptom associated with progesterone gyno was lactation and in case of a prolactin gyno it's a erectile dysfunction.Lately,on aas boards,I'm reading that lactation can be also connected with prolactin.If true,how can someone tell,what's cusing his gyno?(let's forget blood test for a second)
__________________ Can you dig it? |
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05-08-2007, 01:04 PM
| #7 (permalink) |
| Feeling Slutty Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,440
| Re: Have messed up and need help/advice tren/gyno Besides some of the symptoms I think the only way to tell is by which gear you've used. Prolactin gyno is a very real thing. You can use cabergoline to combat it.
__________________ one in the pink. two in the stink. |
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05-08-2007, 03:50 PM
| #8 (permalink) |
| louis crawley  Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: notts
Posts: 22
  | Re: Have messed up and need help/advice tren/gyno wow great reading not took gear for over 5 years but can remember the electric buzz it gave me when on acycle the sheer power size increase and strength ,however i wouldnt dare to take one now at 41 but remember when i did the good old days |
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05-08-2007, 04:05 PM
| #9 (permalink) | |
| UK-Muscle Moderator Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Forest gym crawley
Posts: 4,420
| Re: Have messed up and need help/advice tren/gyno Quote:
__________________ To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. 'Genetics is the science of heredity and variation in living organisms. Inheritance in organisms occurs by means of discrete traits, called genes.' | |
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05-08-2007, 04:09 PM
| #10 (permalink) | ||
| An absolute fat bastard  Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: T'up North
Posts: 3,253
| Re: Have messed up and need help/advice tren/gyno Quote:
__________________ Quote:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. | ||
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05-08-2007, 04:12 PM
| #11 (permalink) |
| UK-Muscle Moderator Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Forest gym crawley
Posts: 4,420
| Re: Have messed up and need help/advice tren/gyno but nandrolone and its derrivatives dont aromatise letro is an AI
__________________ To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. 'Genetics is the science of heredity and variation in living organisms. Inheritance in organisms occurs by means of discrete traits, called genes.' Last edited by Jimmy; 07-08-2007 at 05:37 PM. |
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05-08-2007, 04:21 PM
| #12 (permalink) |
| aka Jimmy  Join Date: May 2006 Location: Barnsley
Posts: 4,056
| Re: Have messed up and need help/advice tren/gyno well Ill tell you something that works for gyno when on tren, and I don't care what studies you got to say it don't work...pmsl.....aromisin and letro. With you running no test in there and just tren and Var then its got to be more or less prog gyno, which is different from estrogenic gyno, or I think it is, now im confused...lol. Anyway, Ive used those two compounds on about 3-4 occaisons and they have never failed to work.
__________________ To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. |
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05-08-2007, 05:22 PM
| #14 (permalink) | |
| Bigger, Better, Stronger Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: North
Posts: 1,940
| Re: Have messed up and need help/advice tren/gyno Quote:
The conclusion is: Take letro not nolva. Just like my first post said
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