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Thread: Should i take Nolvadex during cycle??

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    Should i take Nolvadex during cycle??

    im doing cycle of Test 400mg/2ml a week, deca300mg/1ml a week and starting with dbol30mg a ED just woundering if i sould take nolva throughout to prevent some estrogen??

    Thanks.

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    I'd run nolva while using the dbol then switch to an AI like arimidex for the rest of the cycle.

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    Re: Should i take Nolvadex during cycle??

    Take Arimidex.
    I'm not as helpful as Aus with link posting but nolva reduces IGF-1 and arimidex increases IGF-1.
    1mg ED arimidex.
    ausbuilt and misterlee like this.

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    Re: Should i take Nolvadex during cycle??

    I'm fairly sure that Nolva shouldn't be run with Deca.

    An AI would be suffice IMO.

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    Re: Should i take Nolvadex during cycle??

    Quote Originally Posted by Thweets View Post
    im doing cycle of Test 400mg/2ml a week, deca300mg/1ml a week and starting with dbol30mg a ED just woundering if i sould take nolva throughout to prevent some estrogen??

    Thanks.
    Not Nolva. Run either Aromasin at 1x tab ED (25mg/day) or Arimidex 1xtab ED (1mg/day).

    The reason not nolva:

    Tamoxifen REDUCES IGF-1 (and GH):

    "...Our study confirm the inhibitory effect of tamoxifen on IGF-I and suggested, as shown in previous in vitro data, that its suppression could be directly related to GH reduction"

    From: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11299809



    where as Arimidex SIGNIFICANTLY INCREASES IGF-1:

    "...IGF-1 significantly increased during anastrozole treatment"

    from: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11983488



    and you will also find that arimidex alone, is just as effective as Tamoxifen combined with arimidex, and more effective than tamoxifen alone:

    "...anastrozole continues to show superior efficacy, which is most apparent in the clinically relevant hormone receptor-positive population. Furthermore, anastrozole has numerous noteworthy advantages in terms of tolerability compared with tamoxifen."

    from:http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14584060

    and:

    "...Combination treatment" (of tamoxifen and anastrozole) "...was equivalent to tamoxifen in terms of both efficacy and tolerability. Anastrozole showed superior efficacy to tamoxifen for DFS, TTR and contralateral breast cancer..."

    from:http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14623537

    I would suggest for gyno prevention, and reduction, 1mg ED is the best choice, and superior to adding nolva to armidex, or just changing to nolva as noted above.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ginger Ben View Post
    I'd run nolva while using the dbol then switch to an AI like arimidex for the rest of the cycle.
    no, just start with an AI. Dbol converts to the most potent oestrogen possible- you really do want an AI right from the start.

    Quote Originally Posted by misterlee View Post
    I'm fairly sure that Nolva shouldn't be run with Deca.

    An AI would be suffice IMO.
    Never heard such rubbish before....

    Why wouldnt you run nolva with deca??

    Contrary to popular belief, deca DOES aromatise:

    "...19-nortestosterone derivatives (norethisterone, norethynodrel, tibolone) can readily be aromatized in the adult human liver. This leads to the formation of the potent estrogens ethinylestradiol from norethisterone"

    from: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17653961

    Now nolva would prevent the gyno, but not the water retention from the increased oestrogen. Once again, an AI would be a better choice, however Nolvadex would be better than nothing!
    hctiM, Ginger Ben and Thweets like this.

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    Re: Should i take Nolvadex during cycle??

    Quote Originally Posted by ausbuilt View Post
    Not Nolva. Run either Aromasin at 1x tab ED (25mg/day) or Arimidex 1xtab ED (1mg/day).

    The reason not nolva:

    Tamoxifen REDUCES IGF-1 (and GH):

    "...Our study confirm the inhibitory effect of tamoxifen on IGF-I and suggested, as shown in previous in vitro data, that its suppression could be directly related to GH reduction"

    From: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11299809



    where as Arimidex SIGNIFICANTLY INCREASES IGF-1:

    "...IGF-1 significantly increased during anastrozole treatment"

    from: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11983488



    and you will also find that arimidex alone, is just as effective as Tamoxifen combined with arimidex, and more effective than tamoxifen alone:

    "...anastrozole continues to show superior efficacy, which is most apparent in the clinically relevant hormone receptor-positive population. Furthermore, anastrozole has numerous noteworthy advantages in terms of tolerability compared with tamoxifen."

    from:http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14584060

    and:

    "...Combination treatment" (of tamoxifen and anastrozole) "...was equivalent to tamoxifen in terms of both efficacy and tolerability. Anastrozole showed superior efficacy to tamoxifen for DFS, TTR and contralateral breast cancer..."

    from:http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14623537

    I would suggest for gyno prevention, and reduction, 1mg ED is the best choice, and superior to adding nolva to armidex, or just changing to nolva as noted above.



    no, just start with an AI. Dbol converts to the most potent oestrogen possible- you really do want an AI right from the start.



    Never heard such rubbish before....

    Why wouldnt you run nolva with deca??

    Contrary to popular belief, deca DOES aromatise:

    "...19-nortestosterone derivatives (norethisterone, norethynodrel, tibolone) can readily be aromatized in the adult human liver. This leads to the formation of the potent estrogens ethinylestradiol from norethisterone"

    from: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17653961

    Now nolva would prevent the gyno, but not the water retention from the increased oestrogen. Once again, an AI would be a better choice, however Nolvadex would be better than nothing!
    Yeah, what he said....

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    Re: Should i take Nolvadex during cycle??

    Quote Originally Posted by ausbuilt View Post
    Not Nolva. Run either Aromasin at 1x tab ED (25mg/day) or Arimidex 1xtab ED (1mg/day).

    The reason not nolva:

    Tamoxifen REDUCES IGF-1 (and GH):

    "...Our study confirm the inhibitory effect of tamoxifen on IGF-I and suggested, as shown in previous in vitro data, that its suppression could be directly related to GH reduction"

    From: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11299809



    where as Arimidex SIGNIFICANTLY INCREASES IGF-1:

    "...IGF-1 significantly increased during anastrozole treatment"

    from: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11983488



    and you will also find that arimidex alone, is just as effective as Tamoxifen combined with arimidex, and more effective than tamoxifen alone:

    "...anastrozole continues to show superior efficacy, which is most apparent in the clinically relevant hormone receptor-positive population. Furthermore, anastrozole has numerous noteworthy advantages in terms of tolerability compared with tamoxifen."

    from:http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14584060

    and:

    "...Combination treatment" (of tamoxifen and anastrozole) "...was equivalent to tamoxifen in terms of both efficacy and tolerability. Anastrozole showed superior efficacy to tamoxifen for DFS, TTR and contralateral breast cancer..."

    from:http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14623537

    I would suggest for gyno prevention, and reduction, 1mg ED is the best choice, and superior to adding nolva to armidex, or just changing to nolva as noted above.



    no, just start with an AI. Dbol converts to the most potent oestrogen possible- you really do want an AI right from the start.



    Never heard such rubbish before....

    Why wouldnt you run nolva with deca??

    Contrary to popular belief, deca DOES aromatise:

    "...19-nortestosterone derivatives (norethisterone, norethynodrel, tibolone) can readily be aromatized in the adult human liver. This leads to the formation of the potent estrogens ethinylestradiol from norethisterone"

    from: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17653961

    Now nolva would prevent the gyno, but not the water retention from the increased oestrogen. Once again, an AI would be a better choice, however Nolvadex would be better than nothing!
    I've seen this numerous times in threads. But I stand corrected.

  8. #8
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    Re: Should i take Nolvadex during cycle??

    Quote Originally Posted by ausbuilt View Post
    Not Nolva. Run either Aromasin at 1x tab ED (25mg/day) or Arimidex 1xtab ED (1mg/day).

    The reason not nolva:

    Tamoxifen REDUCES IGF-1 (and GH):

    "...Our study confirm the inhibitory effect of tamoxifen on IGF-I and suggested, as shown in previous in vitro data, that its suppression could be directly related to GH reduction"

    From: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11299809



    where as Arimidex SIGNIFICANTLY INCREASES IGF-1:

    "...IGF-1 significantly increased during anastrozole treatment"

    from: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11983488



    and you will also find that arimidex alone, is just as effective as Tamoxifen combined with arimidex, and more effective than tamoxifen alone:

    "...anastrozole continues to show superior efficacy, which is most apparent in the clinically relevant hormone receptor-positive population. Furthermore, anastrozole has numerous noteworthy advantages in terms of tolerability compared with tamoxifen."

    from:http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14584060

    and:

    "...Combination treatment" (of tamoxifen and anastrozole) "...was equivalent to tamoxifen in terms of both efficacy and tolerability. Anastrozole showed superior efficacy to tamoxifen for DFS, TTR and contralateral breast cancer..."

    from:http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14623537

    I would suggest for gyno prevention, and reduction, 1mg ED is the best choice, and superior to adding nolva to armidex, or just changing to nolva as noted above.



    no, just start with an AI. Dbol converts to the most potent oestrogen possible- you really do want an AI right from the start.



    Never heard such rubbish before....

    Why wouldnt you run nolva with deca??

    Contrary to popular belief, deca DOES aromatise:

    "...19-nortestosterone derivatives (norethisterone, norethynodrel, tibolone) can readily be aromatized in the adult human liver. This leads to the formation of the potent estrogens ethinylestradiol from norethisterone"

    from: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17653961

    Now nolva would prevent the gyno, but not the water retention from the increased oestrogen. Once again, an AI would be a better choice, however Nolvadex would be better than nothing!

    I know an AI is better for various reasons over nolva but surely it won't hinder gains on cycle as steroids increase IGF-1 and those studies are for people with breast cancer, not men taking steroids! Not saying nolva is better by any means, I use AI's as you know

    So surely if people don't mind a bit of bloat then nolva is a good cheap alternative no?


    **Edit** Seen you say it's better than nothing! LOL
    Last edited by Hotdog147; 11-07-2012 at 04:32 PM.

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    Re: Should i take Nolvadex during cycle??

    Quote Originally Posted by Hotdog147 View Post
    I know an AI is better for various reasons over nolva but surely it won't hinder gains on cycle as steroids increase IGF-1 and those studies are for people with breast cancer, not men taking steroids! Not saying nolva is better by any means, I use AI's as you know

    So surely if people don't mind a bit of bloat then nolva is a good cheap alternative no?


    **Edit** Seen you say it's better than nothing! LOL
    LOL was just going to reply I did say Nolva better than nothing- better a marginal reduction in gains then getting gyno (which will cost LOADS more to treat/reduce/remove).

    However, given the choice, or if you can afford an AI, its the better choice is my actual point.

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    Re: Should i take Nolvadex during cycle??

    Quote Originally Posted by ausbuilt View Post
    Not Nolva. Run either Aromasin at 1x tab ED (25mg/day) or Arimidex 1xtab ED (1mg/day).

    The reason not nolva:

    Tamoxifen REDUCES IGF-1 (and GH):

    "...Our study confirm the inhibitory effect of tamoxifen on IGF-I and suggested, as shown in previous in vitro data, that its suppression could be directly related to GH reduction"

    From: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11299809



    where as Arimidex SIGNIFICANTLY INCREASES IGF-1:

    "...IGF-1 significantly increased during anastrozole treatment"

    from: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11983488



    and you will also find that arimidex alone, is just as effective as Tamoxifen combined with arimidex, and more effective than tamoxifen alone:

    "...anastrozole continues to show superior efficacy, which is most apparent in the clinically relevant hormone receptor-positive population. Furthermore, anastrozole has numerous noteworthy advantages in terms of tolerability compared with tamoxifen."

    from:http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14584060

    and:

    "...Combination treatment" (of tamoxifen and anastrozole) "...was equivalent to tamoxifen in terms of both efficacy and tolerability. Anastrozole showed superior efficacy to tamoxifen for DFS, TTR and contralateral breast cancer..."

    from:http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14623537

    I would suggest for gyno prevention, and reduction, 1mg ED is the best choice, and superior to adding nolva to armidex, or just changing to nolva as noted above.



    no, just start with an AI. Dbol converts to the most potent oestrogen possible- you really do want an AI right from the start.



    Never heard such rubbish before....

    Why wouldnt you run nolva with deca??

    Contrary to popular belief, deca DOES aromatise:

    "...19-nortestosterone derivatives (norethisterone, norethynodrel, tibolone) can readily be aromatized in the adult human liver. This leads to the formation of the potent estrogens ethinylestradiol from norethisterone"

    from: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17653961

    Now nolva would prevent the gyno, but not the water retention from the increased oestrogen. Once again, an AI would be a better choice, however Nolvadex would be better than nothing!
    I'm sure you have a copy and paste post considering the amount of times you explain this to people!

    I knew you'd be in to post so kept mine short for the OP to search for your info.

  11. #11
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    Re: Should i take Nolvadex during cycle??

    Quote Originally Posted by hctiM View Post
    I'm sure you have a copy and paste post considering the amount of times you explain this to people!

    I knew you'd be in to post so kept mine short for the OP to search for your info.
    yep, i just google the key words and my name and up will come a thread and I do cut 'n paste... as no one searches/reads, everyone only asks their own q...
    hctiM and Mey like this.

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    Re: Should i take Nolvadex during cycle??

    Why would anyone run nolvadex when we have aromatase inhibitors?? Show nolva the toilet.

    Use adex, aromasin, or research forma stanzol for an excellent AI. or if you can get letro, only a low dose is ample to counter any estro/progestro sides.

    Deca will cause progesterone and prolactin related side effects though, being a 19-nor compound, therefore you should be running cabergoline/dostinex with it! Or you may get milky tits.

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    Re: Should i take Nolvadex during cycle??

    Quote Originally Posted by Rich_89 View Post
    Why would anyone run nolvadex when we have aromatase inhibitors?? Show nolva the toilet.

    Use adex, aromasin, or research forma stanzol for an excellent AI. or if you can get letro, only a low dose is ample to counter any estro/progestro sides.

    Deca will cause progesterone and prolactin related side effects though, being a 19-nor compound, therefore you should be running cabergoline/dostinex with it! Or you may get milky tits.
    Estrogen needs to be present for the gyno to grow before prolactin becomes an issue. Use an AI to control estrogen and you shouldn't need caber.
    ausbuilt likes this.

  14. #14
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    Re: Should i take Nolvadex during cycle??

    Ive used Nolva with test and deca... still do and havnt had any problems with it... the IGF1 issue does annoy me abit. but like said above if it does reduce the gains only marginally, I can live with that

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    Re: Should i take Nolvadex during cycle??

    Quote Originally Posted by hctiM View Post
    Estrogen needs to be present for the gyno to grow before prolactin becomes an issue. Use an AI to control estrogen and you shouldn't need caber.
    I agree with you sir, but you can't eradicate all estrogen from your body, that's why some say letro is a poor on cycle AI, because it's so powerful. You need some present. So if there is someone who is a bit sensitive, this bit of estrogen could open up a floodgate of problems.

    Err on the side of caution and have caber on hand, so you won't be caught out.

 

 
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