Understanding PCT - Page 3 - UK-Muscle Body Building Community

rightyho · 03-10-2007, 10:10 AM

Nice one Hackskii. I did a 12 weeker with an 8 week break followed by another 12 weeker that's just turned into a 13 weeker and will be about a 20 weeker by the time the shows are over and a month of test is run.

If I were to jump onto test post-shows, would I be looking at 500iu hcg eod for example to stimulate the gonads WHILE on the test?

Thanks mate.

**hackskii** · 03-10-2007, 04:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rightyho

Nice one Hackskii. I did a 12 weeker with an 8 week break followed by another 12 weeker that's just turned into a 13 weeker and will be about a 20 weeker by the time the shows are over and a month of test is run.

If I were to jump onto test post-shows, would I be looking at 500iu hcg eod for example to stimulate the gonads WHILE on the test?

Thanks mate.

Yah, if the nuts are responsive.
When mine go south and I have to bring them back to life, 500iu ED doesnt really seem to work.
I do feel EOD shots work better for some reason.
If they respond then that is fine, if they dont then you will have to be more aggressive with the HCG.
That comes with some plus's and minus's, the plus is the extra stimulation to fire the nuts up, the minus is the extra aromitization.
But, if the nova and some aromasin is in the mix, chances are the minus is not quite as bad.

Bringing the nuts online while you taper the gear should work, or get you really close to start the other part of the equation of PCT and that is bringing the hypothalamus and pituitary back online.
Nuts first, then the others.

Do you have testicular atrophy right now?

See, the nice thing about HCG is it will force the nuts to produce testosterone, even with the presence of exo test.
This is a good thing, but the only way to tell for sure is to take blood tests and see if you are producing endo test that is within base values.
With HCG you can produce above base values as LH is telling the nuts to do so, that is how the body stays in homeostasis, the hypothalamus stops sending the pituitary GnRH and this results in the pituitary not sending LH.
With the use of HCG one can overstimulate and produce higher than normal test but all we are looking at here is testicular function.

rightyho · 03-10-2007, 04:31 PM

Yes mate, there's atrophy - not profound but hey the walnuts have been shelled.

Not much wood going on either - has the odd glimmer of hope then turns back into a slumbering trouser worm. :gun:

So, maybe a 500mg test pick-up from the tren with 1000iu EOD of HCG during the final two weeks of the test duration, leading into a HCG-driven proper PCT. I don't want to be on HCG for more than 4 weeks for the obvious reasons of the risk of desensitisation.

**hackskii** · 03-10-2007, 05:39 PM

Well, that is kind of a tough one as you are kind of trying to do two things at once.
You can do the aggressive PCT after the test taper.

Normally when aggressive HCG is used it is higher in the begenning then taper's down twards the end.
I think the added stimulation is more to jump start things.

again I need more than most and you might need as much.
Without prior experiance with the use of HCG I am not sure how you would respond.
That and you are younger than me by far too which I feel is better for recovery than this old dude

.

There was a diet and still is that uses HCG @ only 200iu a day, they are put on 500 calories for up to 40 days, or is that 45 days?.....anywy, they suggested that on average people lost up to about a pound a day.
HCG protected the lean muscle and also the HCG helped to rid the body of abnormal fat.'
Others put on a 500 cal diet lost the exact same but the HCG subjects lost mostly fat whereas the other group lost alot of muscle.
The diet was not so effective at around the 40 day mark.
So, they come off the HCG for 6 weeks, then they can come back on and start losing again.

I bring this up because it is over a month for the HCG to stop working for the diet.
I suspect it is about the same give or take for desentization.
But, that is avoidable with the use of nolva.
So, it is possible to probably do longer course than 4 weeks if you maintain base levels of estrogen and probably use nolva for the nuts to act as an anti-E there.

So, you can be the test guinny pig here and run the 500iu throughout the test course, while you run the aromasin and nolva.
At the end of the month tho, I would taper that some, and even when you stop you can still hang with the HCG after the test clears starting your PCT with nolva and clomid.

surfer808 · 03-12-2007, 03:39 AM

Here's my cycle...will the clomid be fine? Or should I add PCT somewhere?

1 - 10 wks Testaviron Depot 500mg
1 - 10 wks Decca 300mg
1 - 4 wks D-Bol 30mg ED
1 - 10 wks Milk Thistle 500 mg(sp?)
12 - 14 wks Clomid 100mg ED for a week, then drop to 50mg ED

**hackskii** · 03-12-2007, 03:59 PM

That wont work mate, first of all the deca wont clear for around three weeks.

If it was me I would drop the deca week 9, continue with the test, 2 weeks after last jab do 100mg clomid a day for 21 to 30 days
20mg nolva for 30 to 45 days.
Run the nolva longer than the clomid.
You can taper the dose in the end too (I do this) just in case of estrogen rebounding issues.

MDB · 03-12-2007, 10:12 PM

Great post hacks ! ... good info is what im after ...

I ve done many mild cycles when i was younger , i was always very thin and after working out for years couldn´t just gain anymore weight.

so i became curious about using gear
i have never done more than 8 , 10 week cycles , never stacked in my life and have never gone over 250mg of test a week.
only used Clomid for pct, and sometimes nothing at all since i took plenty of time off get back on ( sometimes a full year ) and truth is i never did any research on pct back then.

i `m back to training now and im doing research on pct since im planning a to run a cycle of 500mg of sustanon a week (jab mon 250mg and a jab on tursd 250mg)

what would you run then for pct?
and also ...
could i stick to the 250mg a week ? since its always worked out fine for me, or is that very low ? meaning what is the difference between each besides gains, strenght, etc of course.

excuse my questions but i want to do things right this time
and thats what my research is all about?

anything help on this will be great ppl.

oh, btw i'm 33 , weight 74 kilos would like to be stuck on 85/90 kilos.

again thanks mate . excellent post !

**hackskii** · 03-12-2007, 11:09 PM

250 is pretty low but you can supplement low dose d-bol with that and be just fine.

You don’t have to split sust shots, not necessary as the long ester in that will last much longer than a week.

If you want to do that then this is ok, I would totally run HCG with that cycle to keep and maintain full testicular function.
Better to keep the nuts alive than try to bring them back to life at the end of the cycle.
Not only that but low dose of HCG will keep your nuts producing testosterone and if you are doing 250 test a week then the added amounts from HCG will be helpful.

You could use clomid only but at just a small amount of cash adding in nolva with clomid is a great idea and could very well make recovery easier.

I always run my clomid @ 100mg a day and the nolva @ 20mg.
Clomid for 30 days and nolva for 45 days.

Im lot going to lie to you but 500 you would see better results than 250 but with more sides. I would take an Aromatase Inhibitor (AI) with that cycle, something like Arimidex @ .5mg twice a week or E3D, half life is pretty long so no worries about taking ED.

surfer808 · 04-12-2007, 09:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hackskii

That wont work mate, first of all the deca wont clear for around three weeks.

If it was me I would drop the deca week 9, continue with the test, 2 weeks after last jab do 100mg clomid a day for 21 to 30 days
20mg nolva for 30 to 45 days.
Run the nolva longer than the clomid.
You can taper the dose in the end too (I do this) just in case of estrogen rebounding issues.

Should I run the HCG during my cycle? If so, how much and starting when? I want to keep the boys running smoothly (no issues yet) but then again I'm only 2 weeks into the cycle.

Any help would be appreciated...thanks

MDB · 04-12-2007, 02:34 PM

Thank you again hacks for the info... and such a fast reply.

**hackskii** · 04-12-2007, 06:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by surfer808

Should I run the HCG during my cycle? If so, how much and starting when? I want to keep the boys running smoothly (no issues yet) but then again I'm only 2 weeks into the cycle.

Any help would be appreciated...thanks

Totally run the HCG during the cycle.
Do 500iu E3D or twice a week, which ever one keeps them plump.
Start the first week and run it right up to when the steroids are going to clear.
Has about a 3 day or so half life so you can drop it 3 days before you start PCT

punkfloyd · 05-01-2008, 09:12 PM

Great Post Hacks - like the man said, very informative.

Thanks

joepeeps · 15-01-2008, 11:20 PM

Ok from what i have read nolva seems better suited to pct after a d bol only cycle than clomid..theres a long article i found on google

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/catnolv.htm

Thats a pretty good read on the subject

**hackskii** · 16-01-2008, 06:11 PM

I have read that.
I love to read Big Cats stuff but his thinking is a bit flawed.
They use clomid to test men for hypogonadism in the medical field, they dont use nolva.
I have used nolva and aromasin for a PCT and failed, i had to re-run my PCT using nolva and clomid.
nolva only does not work for me, I dont care how many studies people come up with.
They both are agonists and antagonists for estrogen, they are similar but not the same, each one can effect diffrent tissues diffrently.
i totally believe nolva acts as an estrogen on the prostate, to my knowledge clomid does not.

nice read but a bit flawed

uknumbr14 · 21-01-2008, 07:19 PM

hey hackskii.i seem to be getting load of different answers so would like your help if poss mate. Im goin to run a cycle of test enanthate and deca for 8 weeks.thinking of doing 250mg enanthate and 100mg in one jab on a monday,then the 250mg enanthate on thursday and 100mg deca. running this for 8 weeks.Then week 11 bringing in the hcg,clomid and nolvadex.normally see some shrinkage towards the end of a cycle,then a crash.never used pct before after courses so really need some help if poss.cheers.