Jimmer

Can anyone offer assistance or comments.

I am currently on cycle which is 200mg deca & 250mg test e wkly. I inject sun evening,so this is about to be the start of wk 4 for me (8 injects total).

I have puberty gyno,and am prone to this,this is why I am using letro on cycle @ a dose of 0.40mg daily. I am finding it hard to tell if my lumps are getting bigger,I would lean more towards that they are!! and so am a little concerned.

I have seen posts on the protocol to follow to remove gyno whilst on cycle i.e. 0.5, 1.0,1.5 etc up to 2.5mg daily then maintain until it subsides.

My questions are these.

1) I understand that best gains are seen from wks 4 upwards with test e. So would it cut into my gains and my most prodcutive time if I did this protocol at this point?? Or should I wait till later on in the course to do the protocol?? seeing as I am unsure if they are getting larger.

2) Also doing this protocol with letro would that hurt my joints while training? through driving Estrogen too low?

3) My gyno lumps can't be completely got rid of using this protocol as they originate from puberty (i am 27 now ) is this correct?

4) should/could I simply up the dose to 0.8mg daily,is that more productive?

Sorry if thats going on a bit but,got a lot on my mind just want some help. Thanks in advance Jim.

:beer1:

Aftershock

The Letro wont hinder your gains IMO, it will just keep you dry. To many people confuse water weight for muscle.
I dont think your joints will become excessively sore as you are using DECA.

Theres only one way to find out, and youve got nothing to lose IMO.

Personally I would follow the protocol exactly as it is layed out.

andye

when i used it i went upto 2.5 mgs perday for about 2 weeks. my lumps did get better but not totally.

your lumps will not be worse than before mate, they wont be better but they deffo wont get worse whilst taking letro.

go up to 2.5 mgs and when the pain is gone, continue at the high dose for another week then taper down.

its worth a shot mate, it wont do any harm

Harry

Anyone know the standard dose on this to prevent gyno not cure it?

Jimmer

Aftershock,Andye, cheers for replying. I think I will try it.... F*** it, it might go away!!! that would be the best thing that has ever happended to me,I F***ing hate having **** looking nipples and a bad contor on my chest it robs me of a much better looking body.

Harry - dose for prevention on tabs is 0.25mg or 0.5mg daily. For the liquid version 10 pumps = 2.5mg therefore 1 pump is 0.40mg. So dose for liquid version is 1 pump per day.

Aftershock

Going of topic a bit I have a mate who has puberty gyno and is running the protocol. He doent do gear doesnt even train but he was complaining about it so I put him on some letro. Gave him all the warnings about ruining his sex life etc but he was desperate so ran it anyway.

3 weeks later his gyno is vastly improved and it has actually had the opposite effect on his sex life Go figure!!

Jimmer

Buddy that is very interesting,cheers for that!!

I have a theory though....

The letro lowers estrogen in the body and estrogen receptors bind to fat cells which store water right? well maybe that is why a reduction is shown whilst on letro. Cause letro lowers estrogen and water. What happens when you come off though. Estrogen levels rise again and thus cells fill with water which makes the gyno look worse again???

Is there any permanent reduction in hard lump size.

I will be able to tell this better,once I finish this cycle.

I know from experience that when I reduced my bodyfat levels down pretty low under 10% then gyno looked and felt noticably better. This was obiously because I had less fat cells storing water etc. However when BF went up above 10% again gyno instantly apeared worse again.

I also think this is why ANDYE who recently did a very successful diet saw good reduction in gyno,think it was down to fat loss any not lump size reduction?.... ANDYE your thoughts???

I am not convinced that letro permanatly reduces hard gyno lumps,I really hope it does and I should be able to offer my experience on this soon enough. Although I think maybe it just reduces estrogen.

hackskii

Aftershock, make sure you remind your friend about tapering that AI.
Man, if he stops cold turkey his receptors will be super sensitive then all the rush of estrogen will give him gyno worse than he actually had before.


I know the deca issue is low at 200mg but some progesterone related gyno issues using an AI or nolva on wont help.
I hear T3 helps this (for some reason nobody can explain), also winstrol helps with this.
Winstrol is a DHT dirivitive steroid and DHT opposes estrogen and progesterone.
Unless it is prolactin (which I doubt) then using B6 should help some, or cabaser.
If you are worried about it then add some winstrol twards the end of the cycle to combat progesterone or was that progestin? Hmmmmm, I better get my story strait.

__________________
Power over others is weakness disguised as strength.

Scott

mrmasive

Bump for later!

andye

i mainly judged the letro working by how the pain was. ive always had some pain in my nips for the last ten years, couldnt even really touch them

but after the letro the pain had gone completly. the lumps deffinatly got smaller though.

i got my girlfreind to help judge and she aggreed they had got smaller.

there are 2 types of gyno (i have since found out since visiting harley medical) there is what they call male breasts which is just fat build up equally cused by hormone inbalance and gynocamstia which is fat and tissue build up.

one type just uses lipo to sort out, the other uses a combo of lipo and cutting the gland out. now i have big hard lumps under my nips, the left side being a lot bigger than the right, these lumps are hard and paiful.

HEARS THE GOOD BIT..... i had to have a mammogram (which was embarrising) and did they find any breast tissue growth.... NO. JUST FAT LUMPS!!!. id beg to differ but who am i to argue with a specialist.

now im starting to think, that i did have glandular build up (fat cant hurt right?) and maybe the letro has reduced it and just left fat lumps???

anyway, im booked for surgery in 2 months, they keep saying they are just gonna suck the fat out, i said hey, as long as im flat when i come out i dont care what you do.

all this was very interesting as i m convinced the lumps pain and itchiness where gland buld up. now after my mammogram, nothing but fat lumps (they feel kinda like fatty cysts)

what are your thought on this?

hackskii

That is interesting.

Hell, why you are at it have them hit the love handles with the lypo

I saw one operation on TV where they treated gyno. They lyposucked it out then they did like a little nipple tuck.
They showed the before and after pics and it was done very nice.

But being older, I notice men in my factory with tits every day. For some reason (im not gay) I look and see many of the men that have tits. Id say 20% of the older men look like they have tits.
But to be fair it is mostly guys that have a belly.
Bellyfat is the highest concintration of aromatase enzyme in the body, so this makes alot of sense to me.
Bellyfat=tits in older men

__________________
Power over others is weakness disguised as strength.

Scott

Jimmer

Well guys I went to the doctor at 16yrs and he said I had gynocomasia and I was a very lean skinny kid at the time,i,e, mine is hard lumps not fat.

When I squeeze them I find it hard to determine what I am grabing. If I grap some belly fat then this feels soft and smooth with no lumps in what so ever,and I know this is ONLY fat I have there.

However on the chest area it feels like i have a continuous hard strand/large lump which goes right across nipple area and further total of about 30-35mm length. Left is larger/longer than the right. Dose any1 who dosen't have gyno also have this????? I am thinking this is my glad which the gyno grows from.

It almost feels like a foreign body like it shouldn't be there. If I tense my chest then I can feel the chest plate muscle is a solid hard lump so I know what I am sqeezing is not muscle as the rest moves ontop of the chest muscle.

Hackskii bud, I am aware of the tapering up and down of the letro on this protocol,thanks for your concern. I have chosen to simply go up by 1 pump per day until I get to 10 pumps which equals 2.5mg and then when I'm done I will come back down by 1 pump per day.

I think I was having a off day earlier in this thread cause 1 pump = 0.25mg not 0.4mg as I said above. Sorry for any confussion caused there to anyone reading this..... In my deffence,I'm overworked and underpaid!!!

Aftershock

Yeah all in hand bro hes tappering off the Letro slowly and the last week on Letro hes starting Nova which he will run for a further month. Then hes tappering off The Nova slowly as well.

andye

this is exactly the same as mine, but as i say, the doc reckons theres no gland, just fat build up.

wether he means gland origionates from fat build up or what i dont know.

either way, if i come out of the op with puffy nipples i aint gonna be a happy chappy.

anyway my freind, get to your gp and get it sorted mate. its like a ton weight has been lifted off my shoulders just knowing its gettin sorted

jimmystar

well im on letro 2.5 mg a day been on for 4 weeks.
i have the same problem as jimmer.
my lumps are a bit better not a huge diference and no los of sex drive yet.
not sure how long to stay on for im doing dbol 14x14 cycle