Is clomid or nolvadex bad on the liver? - UK-Muscle Body Building Community

**hackskii** · 22-05-2006, 07:03 PM

I was sick since Saturday running a 103 temperature and felt like crap, I couldn’t get to the board and almost couldn’t get out of bed for that matter. Fever broke last night and today I feel a lot better (thank God).
Anyway a member asked a question is nolvadex hard on the liver, this question has been asked before and cookie suggested it was not the best thing for the liver and after a cycle liver enzymes can be elevated so I thought I would do a little research.
This is what I cam up with.
They are all copy and paste, well snips from articles really.

Is nolvadex hard on the liver?

Although tamoxifen can cause liver cancer in particular strains of rats, it is not known to cause liver cancer in humans. It is clear, however, that tamoxifen can sometimes cause other liver toxicities in patients, which can be severe or life threatening. Doctors may order blood tests from time to time to check liver function.

Another copy and paste:

In rats and mice, tamoxifen activates liver enzyme cytochrome p450 like most other chemical rcinogens. This originally led researchers to believe that tamoxifen would be a classic carcinogen. However, it was later shown that tamoxifen is metabolized differently in humans than in rats. Tamoxifen does not appear to be a liver carcinogen in humans. However, researchers in Japan did CT scans on the livers of 66 patients taking tamoxifen for three to five years, and found that 36% of them had a fatty liver. The condition was not readily detectable: liver enzymes were elevated in only about half of the women. The researchers recommended regular scans for women taking tamoxifen, yet neither the FDA nor Zeneca has alerted women.

What about Clomid (Clomiphene Citrate)?

Unless directed to do so by your doctor, do not use this medication if you have an uncontrolled thyroid or adrenal gland disorder, an abnormality of the brain such as a pituitary gland tumor, a liver disease or a history of liver problems, abnormal uterine bleeding of undetermined origin, ovarian cysts, or enlargement of the ovaries not caused by polycystic ovarian syndrome (a hormonal disorder causing lack of ovulation).

So with the above information I feel it might not be the best approach if you have liver problems to do SERM's but then again, we know orals arent good for us but do them anyway right?

If it was me, I get shutdown so hard, I would trade some liver damage over months of waiting to recover.

Littleluke · 23-05-2006, 04:29 PM

If you have problems with your liver you shouldn't take steroids full stop.. You'd be stupid to!

Cheater2K · 23-05-2006, 05:12 PM

lukeybigarms, what if you get the liver problems while on a cycle, so have come off wanting to recover ;)

**hackskii** · 23-05-2006, 06:07 PM

In the defense of nolvadex, it will lower cholesterol and cholesterol can be compromised on a cycle.

mrmasive · 23-05-2006, 07:17 PM

bump for later

BIG-UNC · 23-05-2006, 08:11 PM

i would trade in some liver damage for some months of waiting to recover!!!

sorry hacskii mate but thats the stupidist thing ive heard you say!

hope i got this right cos to me it sounds as if you would rather do more bad than good!!

rather than wait a few more weeks/months youd cut it short and accept the damage instead

thats how i have read it but im sure your not thinking with your head but with your muscles!

Cheater2K · 23-05-2006, 08:40 PM

Big-unc - Hacks has a very very hard time recovering and getting test levels back to normal, on his defence i would do the same if i was in the situation, unless the liver damage was life threatening of course.

**hackskii** · 23-05-2006, 10:42 PM

It can take anywhere from 6 to 18 months to recover the HPTA.
During that time you will raise triglycerides, lower HDL's (both bad news), have low libido, loss of muscle, gain of fat, bone loss, loss of mental clarity, depression, possible suicidal tendencies, anxiety, low sperm count, weaker heart and a host of other problems.

Again, lipid profiles can be compromised during a cycle and nolva can improve lipid profiles so there is some benefits here.

The liver toxicity of nolvadex (mild at most) for the short time you take it in comparison to the damage that can be done from low levels of testosterone in my opinion make the trade-off an easy decision.

You would see more damage using alcohol, or even over the counter anti-inflammatory drugs like Motrin than nolva.

BIG-UNC · 24-05-2006, 06:10 AM

no offence meant hacksii mate i think i was just a bit shocked about you saying it mate!

i understand now though what you meant, cheers

**hackskii** · 24-05-2006, 06:08 PM

Okie Dokie... I can see how it sounded a bit reckless

My parents used to call me accident prone.

22-05-2006, 07:03 PM	#1 (permalink)
hackskii Super Moderator Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Sunny Southern California U.S.A. Posts: 22,649	Is clomid or nolvadex bad on the liver? I was sick since Saturday running a 103 temperature and felt like crap, I couldn’t get to the board and almost couldn’t get out of bed for that matter. Fever broke last night and today I feel a lot better (thank God). Anyway a member asked a question is nolvadex hard on the liver, this question has been asked before and cookie suggested it was not the best thing for the liver and after a cycle liver enzymes can be elevated so I thought I would do a little research. This is what I cam up with. They are all copy and paste, well snips from articles really. Is nolvadex hard on the liver? Although tamoxifen can cause liver cancer in particular strains of rats, it is not known to cause liver cancer in humans. It is clear, however, that tamoxifen can sometimes cause other liver toxicities in patients, which can be severe or life threatening. Doctors may order blood tests from time to time to check liver function. Another copy and paste: In rats and mice, tamoxifen activates liver enzyme cytochrome p450 like most other chemical rcinogens. This originally led researchers to believe that tamoxifen would be a classic carcinogen. However, it was later shown that tamoxifen is metabolized differently in humans than in rats. Tamoxifen does not appear to be a liver carcinogen in humans. However, researchers in Japan did CT scans on the livers of 66 patients taking tamoxifen for three to five years, and found that 36% of them had a fatty liver. The condition was not readily detectable: liver enzymes were elevated in only about half of the women. The researchers recommended regular scans for women taking tamoxifen, yet neither the FDA nor Zeneca has alerted women. What about Clomid (Clomiphene Citrate)? Unless directed to do so by your doctor, do not use this medication if you have an uncontrolled thyroid or adrenal gland disorder, an abnormality of the brain such as a pituitary gland tumor, a liver disease or a history of liver problems, abnormal uterine bleeding of undetermined origin, ovarian cysts, or enlargement of the ovaries not caused by polycystic ovarian syndrome (a hormonal disorder causing lack of ovulation). So with the above information I feel it might not be the best approach if you have liver problems to do SERM's but then again, we know orals arent good for us but do them anyway right? If it was me, I get shutdown so hard, I would trade some liver damage over months of waiting to recover. __________________ "Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away." - George Carlin Scott To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

23-05-2006, 05:12 PM	#3 (permalink)
Cheater2K EFBB Winner Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: North Wales, UK Posts: 5,665	lukeybigarms, what if you get the liver problems while on a cycle, so have come off wanting to recover ;) __________________ Kind Regards Cheater **************************** ( To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. ) (MSN: To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. ) (URL: www.comingsoon.com) ****************************

23-05-2006, 06:07 PM	#4 (permalink)
hackskii Super Moderator Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Sunny Southern California U.S.A. Posts: 22,649	In the defense of nolvadex, it will lower cholesterol and cholesterol can be compromised on a cycle. __________________ "Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away." - George Carlin Scott To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

23-05-2006, 07:17 PM	#5 (permalink)
mrmasive Gym Addict Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: UK Posts: 436	bump for later __________________ "The greatest test of courage is to bear defeat without loosing heart" B:120 S:200 DL:230 @ 85kg

23-05-2006, 08:11 PM	#6 (permalink)
BIG-UNC IF YOU BUILD IT.....THEY WILL COME! Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: middlesbrough Posts: 1,949	i would trade in some liver damage for some months of waiting to recover!!! sorry hacskii mate but thats the stupidist thing ive heard you say! hope i got this right cos to me it sounds as if you would rather do more bad than good!! rather than wait a few more weeks/months youd cut it short and accept the damage instead thats how i have read it but im sure your not thinking with your head but with your muscles! __________________ UKM's Uncle Hackskii's buddy To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

23-05-2006, 04:29 PM	#2 (permalink)
Littleluke Junior Bodybuilder Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: UK. Posts: 2,814	If you have problems with your liver you shouldn't take steroids full stop.. You'd be stupid to!

23-05-2006, 08:40 PM	#7 (permalink)
Cheater2K EFBB Winner Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: North Wales, UK Posts: 5,665	Big-unc - Hacks has a very very hard time recovering and getting test levels back to normal, on his defence i would do the same if i was in the situation, unless the liver damage was life threatening of course. __________________ Kind Regards Cheater **************************** ( To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. ) (MSN: To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. ) (URL: www.comingsoon.com) ****************************

23-05-2006, 10:42 PM	#8 (permalink)
hackskii Super Moderator Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Sunny Southern California U.S.A. Posts: 22,649	It can take anywhere from 6 to 18 months to recover the HPTA. During that time you will raise triglycerides, lower HDL's (both bad news), have low libido, loss of muscle, gain of fat, bone loss, loss of mental clarity, depression, possible suicidal tendencies, anxiety, low sperm count, weaker heart and a host of other problems. Again, lipid profiles can be compromised during a cycle and nolva can improve lipid profiles so there is some benefits here. The liver toxicity of nolvadex (mild at most) for the short time you take it in comparison to the damage that can be done from low levels of testosterone in my opinion make the trade-off an easy decision. You would see more damage using alcohol, or even over the counter anti-inflammatory drugs like Motrin than nolva. __________________ "Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away." - George Carlin Scott To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

24-05-2006, 06:10 AM	#9 (permalink)
BIG-UNC IF YOU BUILD IT.....THEY WILL COME! Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: middlesbrough Posts: 1,949	no offence meant hacksii mate i think i was just a bit shocked about you saying it mate! i understand now though what you meant, cheers __________________ UKM's Uncle Hackskii's buddy To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

24-05-2006, 06:08 PM	#10 (permalink)
hackskii Super Moderator Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Sunny Southern California U.S.A. Posts: 22,649	Okie Dokie... I can see how it sounded a bit reckless My parents used to call me accident prone. __________________ "Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away." - George Carlin Scott To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

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