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I am week 6 into my second cycle consisting of 2ml sust/week & 2ml test prop/week......my first course 5 months ago was 1ml testoviron/week & 1ml sust/week, achieved good results while on them but made mistake of cutting carbs at end of cycle thinking i'd cut up but though I looked ok for a bit, I felt like **** and lost all my strength/weight gains so was left overall dissapointed also no PCT undertaken.

I again have no PCT planned as I originally felt that my cycle is still a relatively low dosage. However since this I have had a few niggling thoughts if this is the right thing to do as I accept I will lose something but certainly do not want to lose everything again.

I am 34 been training good for last 4 years and am at stage where I need to add a new goal so I am seriously entertaining the prospect of preparing for next years novices at Mr Wales. Knowledge of the game is expanding all the time but accept I am still very naive in my preparation and/or consideration of an appropriate PCT, hence this thread.

I would be grateful if you could comment on firstly if I need a PCT in place for this course and if so maybe your suggestions on what, how much, when to start/finish and your reasons why please.

hackskii

Yes you do need it, for reasons like, keeping gains, avoiding a brutal crash, health reasons, mood, etc.

There are several factors associated with shutdown but we will focus on just 3 of them.
First taking any Exogenous (supplemental) testosterone, your body shuts down production (endogenous) of this hormone. While you are on your estrogen will raise too. Once you come off you will be left with low testosterone and high estrogen.
Can we say female tendencies here
With low test and high estrogen you will lose muscle and gain belly fat.

The testicles will atrophy, the hypothalamus will stop producing GnRH, with no GnRH to the pituitary gland the pituitary gland will not produce LH and FSH, LH is what manufactures testosterone in the testicles.

LH can come back fairly quickly, testosterone production wont. There are some charts around saying something to the effect LH two week recovery and testosterone 10 weeks for low base values. But I have it under good authority it can last between 6 months to 18 months for recovery. During this time gains are lost big time.

So HCG is used to keep testicular function and size (trust me it works awesome), then clomid and nolvadex are used to jump start the pituitary and hypothalamus.
Clomid probably works better but it has an agonist and antagonist effect on estrogen and beings estrogen is 200 times as suppressive as test you can figure out pretty quick why this is not a good thing
Anyway I recommend using HCG to gain testicular function and clomid and nolva together as nolva is an estrogen blocker and the clomid can desensitize the pituitary gland so the nolva kindof negates that.

I run my nolvadex @ 20 mg a day for 45 days.
I run the clomid @ 50 mg twice a day (100mg max) 12 hours apart.
The HCG really varies on the amount of testicular atrophy really.
I find it better to keep them alive than try to bring them back to life.
If you look at my PCT recovery in the journal section I have written everything down and am at day 32 right now and feel awesome.

__________________
"Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away." - George Carlin


Scott


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