Jimmer

kas

Bro u need to add in some adex femera or any ai u can get ur hands on. that will helpl with the gyno, i think because of the decca it could be progestrone gyno.

Jimmer

Thanks so arimidex will do the job you think? what is progestrone gyno?

Lee

id lower the dose of the deca myself mate. atleast until you sort the gyno out.

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SNOWY

you could look at your lifestyle to see if you if you are doing anything that would increase aromatisation e.g. exess alcohol. might help

bad_news_hughes

also cocaine, weed, and sleeping tablets dont help.

why dont you just stick to things like primo, anavar and low dose deca etc, 400mg i would

think with gyno problems wouldnt help it any. look up all the stuff that dont convert to

estrogen or ones with a low, low chance and stick to those. sure its possible. nice slow

steady gains are just as good as going on the heavier stuff as they just tend to be alot of

water anyway and when its gone usually end up with almost the same gains as the

weaker ones. good luck

Jimmy

this article is a cut/paste but i think it useful for all of us...........


I am posting this thread to help answer all of the questions regarding gyno prevention and reversal, the use of letrozole and other anti-e’s. I will go over everything in very simple easy to understand language. Also we are talking about estrogen gyno here, not progesterone (but using letro will stop progesterone related problems as well since it inhibits all estrogen anyways). Progesterone gyno will be enlargement of your nipple area, the actual aereola, not a lump under it.

Let me make this first point very clear, as I state in my signature this is from my personal experience, so whether you agree with it or not is your own issue. I have helped many people with gyno and it has worked just fine for them as well.

To first understand why you are doing what you are doing I am going to go over a few things and a few definitions:

SERM – Selective estrogen receptor modulator. These drugs work by binding to the estrogen receptors and flooding them in a sense, making it difficult (but not impossible by any means) for estrogen to bind to the receptors and thus prevent the onset of estrogen related side effects.
Most common forms: Tamoxifen (Nolvadex), Clomiphene (Clomid)
AI – Aromatise Inhibitor. These drugs work by inhibiting the aromatization of estrogen. This means that in effect AI’s prevent androgens from converting to estrogen, again, making it difficult (but not impossible) for estrogen to reach receptor sites.
Most common forms: Anastrozole (l-dex, a-dex), Exemestane (aromasin), Femera (letrozole). For our purpose of reversing gyno we are interested in Letro.

Letro and your sex drive:
Letrozole will suppress your sex drive. This is another reason why it is so important to act on preventing gyno as soon as possible. Since we all know that Test should be run in every cycle this will cancel out the effect of sex drive suppression.

Running letro to prevent gyno:
If you decide to run estrogen protection while on cycle (and I suggest you do unless you are aware that you do not require it), you can run either a SERM or an AI. Letro will be the most powerful AI you can use, it will inhibit 98+% of estrogen using a dose as low as .25mg and even lower. This is why I suggest you do not use a dose higher than .50mg while on cycle just trying to prevent estrogen related side effects.

You will want to start running the letro approximately 2 weeks before you begin your cycle to allow it to fully stabilize in your blood. I have often heard the argument that letro takes up to 60 days to stabilize, I don’t know if I buy into this for the reason that I have reversed gyno after using letro for only 1 week. Still to be safe I recommend starting it before your cycle as stated above.

If you do decide to run letro there is absolutely no need to run another AI or SERM. Do not make the mistake of thinking more is better. Think of it this way; if letro is preventing the conversion of androgens to estrogen than there is no estrogen, what would the purpose of a SERM be when there is no estrogen to bind to the receptors? Nolva will only take away from the effectiveness of letro.

This brings me to my next point. Do not listen to anyone who tells you to bump up your nolvadex to 60+mg ED if you get gyno. I have no idea where this idea started but I have seen it suggest far too many times recently. Nolvadex will do nothing to reverse your gyno…let me make that clear IT WILL DO NOTHING FOR GYNO. If you are running nolva as your anti-e and start to develop gyno than sure you can bump the dosage a small amount to try to prevent it from progressing further, but letrozole must begin ASAP.

It is very important that you begin taking letrozole immediately, the longer your wait the more risk you take in not being able to reverse it.

How do I know if I have gyno?
If you have developed gyno you will have a lump behind your nipple. It will be fairly hard, and it will be tender to touch.

Running letro to reverse gyno:
I am going to go over the three different scenarios which people could fit into. Remember regardless of what scenario you are in it is important that you begin taking the letro ASAP.

1. Already using an anti-e aside from letro.
2. Already using letro @ a dose of .25mg or .50mg ED.
3. Not running any estrogen protection.

1.
Day 1: .25mg Letro + anti-e*
Day 2: .50mg Letro
Day 3: 1.0mg Letro
Day 4: 1.5mg Letro
Day 5: 2.0mg Letro
Day 6: 2.5mg Letro **

2.
Day 1: .50mg Letro
Day 2: 1.0mg Letro
Day 3: 1.5mg Letro
Day 4: 2.0mg Letro
Day 5: 2.5mg Letro **

3.
Day 1: .50mg Letro
Day 2: 1.0mg Letro
Day 3: 1.5mg Letro
Day 4: 2.0mg Letro
Day 5: 2.5mg Letro **

*Regardless of the anti-e you are using it is important to still use it for the first day you begin letro as the letro will not have taken any effect and you by no means want your body to be without any protection when gyno is already prevalent.

** You will remain at this dose until gyno symptoms subside. Once you believe your gyno is gone it is important to stay at this dose for another 4-7 days to ensure all traces are gone. I recommend people with a bf% over 15 stay on for a week as it may be harder to judge completely whether the lump is completely gone. Once this period is over it will be important to taper letro down slowly rather than coming off it completely. Regardless of which manner you tapered up your dose you will all taper down in the same fashion.

Day 1: 2.0mg
Day 2: 1.5mg
Day 3: 1.0mg
Day 4: .50mg***
Day 5: .25mg
***You can remain at this dose or go down further to .25mg. It is really up to you at this point. They are both very common maintenance doses as an anti-e while on cycle. Personally I have stayed with .25mg and never had a problem.

Letro and the estrogen rebound:
With your estrogen being completely inhibited there is a definite estrogen rebound as your body tries to re-stabilize the testosterone:estrogen balance. We can prevent this rebound effect by supplementing further with another AI or SERM. So, I suggest that when you are coming to the end of your cycle you will more than likely be using Nolva in your PCT so just make sure that you begin taking nolva the last day you are going to take your letro and then continue on as you would with regular PCT.

This now leads us into the question of reversing gyno while not on cycle. There are a few things to remember here. You have already waited longer than you should have, and your sex drive will be shot. You can use tribulus or another natural test booster to help you in this scenario but I can’t guarantee the effectiveness. Just follow gyno reversal protocols 2 or 3. When coming off again you must taper and begin using nolvadex to prevent any rebound effect that may occur.

How much nolvadex should you use if you are not going into PCT and running this off cycle? I suggest starting at 20mg ED for a week and then lowering it to 10mg for another week and then coming off completely.
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BIG-UNC

well jimmy mate that post was excellent BUT its just confused me again now...i thought (by what i have read ) that when symptoms of gyno appear (including little lumps) you take nolva, they go away,but this obviously isnt the case according to this post, it actually only supresses it but doesnt actually get rid!

so if these symptoms are fully blown and you do have a lump will this letro sort this out and make the lump go away by taking it as described in cycle three or if you are running prov @ 25mg ed would you use No 2 cycle

cheers jimmy

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Jimmer

Thanks for all your feedback. Am sterring clear of all alcohol etc while on anyways. I will go back to the non aromatising options since this cycle didn't go to well.

So am i correct in thinking that arimidex will not be good enough to reverse the symptoms I must try to get hold of Letro?

hackskii

Bump for reading later.

Thanks Jimmy

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Scott


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Ecksarmy11

I think vitamin B6 can help to prevent Deca/Tren gyno.
http://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/supplemen...itamin-b6.html

hackskii

Good read.
Estrogen rebound can happen with any anti-e.
Once the SERM/anti-E wears off the estrogen receptors are very sensitive, this makes gyno a problem for some people.
Tapering is a good idea with any anti-e.

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Scott


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Jimmer

Thanks again for all your feedback. I was wondering what you experienced peeps would do re the remainder of my course. I have introduced adex as that was available to me,still searching for letro.

Im going to stop the deca as well now (sides for me ain't worth it), but should I taper the dose for 1 wk at 200mg while starting var. Or stop deca completely going straight into var.

andye

i too have problems with puberty related gyno. its one of the reasons i stopped training years ago.

i was a hard gainer, being pretty skinny (i was young) i then hammered the gear even though i already had sore nipples and thu made them worse.

i ended up fat and out of shape, im now dieting and taking winny and prop but im taking 20mgs of nolv ed to make sure it gets no worse.

im booked in on nhs to get the lumps removed but its been ages, and i think theyre takin the **** a bit.

if i can get some letro, i'll try but last time i asked my "supplier" he said its about 60-70 quid as its pretty much rocking horse ****

Jimmy

hint

if you can find a powder source

they may sell letro powder

if you know where to buy PEG (polyethylene glycol) you can make your letro

REAL CHEAP

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