Here is the Doc's protocol for HPTA recovery. - Page 5 - UK-Muscle Body Building Community

**hackskii** · 08-01-2009, 06:59 PM

I am using aromasin right now, low dose.
Proviron is too expensive and I dont think the return on investment is worth the cost.

Letro is very strong, it crushed my libido on cycle.

Proviron is one of those things that there seems to be much debate about.
Some say it is supressive, some say it isnt, and there are some studies to say either one maybe correct.

If a good PCT is outlined and followed, no need for proviron, that just eats up some more of your money, it is not needed for recovery.
If it is for sex, PT-141 maybe even a better option.

taslajrisi · 10-01-2009, 05:34 PM

Scott

Lets assume that we get the HPTA fully recovered and fired up fine. If someone wanted to take off like 6 months or so from AAS (and be natural) but wanted to keep natural test levels elevated.....what would be the best way to do this? Would low dose aromasin or like a 6-oxo work to increase natty test levels and keep the HPTA fully working fine?

Just wondering how to maximize natural levels after fully successful HPTA recovery/PCT and not take AAS for a while.

**hackskii** · 10-01-2009, 05:43 PM

Well, that would be achieved not with drugs, but the strongest drug known to man, food.
Not to mention lifestyle, and training.
Blocking estrogen for the hell of it in the assumption of raising testosterone levels in men is not a good idea.
Well, not unless you are one of those guys that produce alot of estrogen naturally.
But certain foods can either raise or lower estrogen.

taslajrisi · 23-01-2009, 02:42 AM

Scott,

I am doing the protocol and what i did was 2500 eod for two shots, then 1500 eod for three shots and by my third shot, my balls were huge and almost engorged (big as ever). After that I started doing 1000 eod now. I definately felt the androgen/test surge in system.

It seems like the balls went down a bit from that initial engorgement size. Is this normal? I keep reading that a too high a dose initially will render the second or next shots not as effective (anthony roberts PCT). Is this true?

Can say for sure they are back to life.....just hope they stay up after HCG and only on serms.......any comments would be appreciated.
Thanks

Flex Factor · 23-01-2009, 03:59 PM

Top thread mate as always!!!!

**hackskii** · 15-04-2009, 06:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by taslajrisi

Thanks so much Scott

I may PM you soon but I need a serious jumpstart as I did not use hcg during cycle. I know i experienced atrophy during cycle but thought it would bounce back with some clom/nolva or trib. Not the case. I have been off now for more than a month so everything is cleared. What do you think of DHEA?

Quote:

Originally Posted by paulo

sticky for this surely??

Quote:

Originally Posted by taslajrisi

Scott,

I am doing the protocol and what i did was 2500 eod for two shots, then 1500 eod for three shots and by my third shot, my balls were huge and almost engorged (big as ever). After that I started doing 1000 eod now. I definately felt the androgen/test surge in system.

It seems like the balls went down a bit from that initial engorgement size. Is this normal? I keep reading that a too high a dose initially will render the second or next shots not as effective (anthony roberts PCT). Is this true?

Can say for sure they are back to life.....just hope they stay up after HCG and only on serms.......any comments would be appreciated.
Thanks

Anthony Roberts is an ass and I would take his words with a grain of salt.

Now that I got that out of the way.

Desensitization isnt really an issue with the use of nolva in the picture.
You can use less after the start of the bigger doses, testicles will become more sensitive from the stimulation of HCG anyway.

But, the whole idea here is to use the HCG till endogenous levels come to speed, once this happens, drop the HCG and continue with the SERMS.

15-04-2009, 07:01 PM

Scott after my contest i am doing 8 weeks of test only, final two weeks are down ramp.
Am i correct in running aromasin every day during this period along with hcg every 3rd day until pct begins?

Will obviously be pming you closer to the time but i like to get things prepared in my head........

The value of your posts are undeniable, the celery tip for one is a total winner!

**hackskii** · 15-04-2009, 07:15 PM

Thanks for the kind words mate.

What the plan is to keep estrogen in check, not high, not low, run the HCG as kind of a primer to offer some stimulation to the nuts.

Ideally, the whole deal with the taper is to get you used to lower androgen levels in the body so you wont crash.
Doubt that 3 weeks would offer you this. 8 weeks for sure, and then once you stepped into PCT recovery should be fairly easy.

Problems happen when guys run much gear like more than a gram a week for long periods, some guys (I have known), crash on 400mg a week of cyp. Which is 4 times his natty production.
So, comming off clean, and going into PCT would be a terrible crash for that dude.
Once you get your levels back to about normal endogenous production levels, comming off is nothing more than switching the nuts on.
Once the nuts are switched, then it is time to switch the hypothalamus and pituitary.
The SERMS would still stimulate the leydig cells above normal LH levels an offer some decent stimulation.
Providing you dont get problems with the clomid.
Some guys have terrible problems with clomid and mood, it can turn dudes into chicks.

Feel sorry for them as clomid is the best thing for priming the pituitary.

Hope this explains the game plan better.

15-04-2009, 07:23 PM

Erm....i think i get it mate

As far as doses i really very rarely run any thing over a gram and my rebound will not be that high. More than likely 700mg prop for 5 weeks then 525mg for 1 week 350mg 1 week 175mg 1 week then straight into pct. My real goal with the rebound is to gain some muscle yet keep a good level of conditioning while i come of fat burners and then slowly taper off the cardio so i can start pct with a lean body and hopefully not gain a lot of fat during pct(i will gain some as i rather do that than under eat, i have done that once and results sucked).

I have never crashed as such.

Clomid is a bit a lame i will admit, moody and eye sight gets a bit weird but i dont care as long as the job gets done

I will mail you after my contest and we can chat about how to do every thing completely including the hmg. Thanks for helping me Scott

glanzav · 15-04-2009, 07:36 PM

so thats for hpta
what about full recovery so all blood work is right
immune system is strong again
didnt dutch scott say it took 18months to fully recover from aas
i have been on and off for 2 years more time on the off big time i admitt it and i no its wrong
i have started this pct proticole even though i have had no problems with nuts srinking trouble with erections or sexual drive
i just wanna get myself back to normal then i will start short cycle blasts like one month on 6 weeks off so on
im running hgh at the mo and as iv only just started back training with having time off once my training is under way im gonna use petitides to hold onto wat i got and try and make small lean gains while i recover

**hackskii** · 16-04-2009, 12:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by glanzav

so thats for hpta
what about full recovery so all blood work is right
immune system is strong again
didnt dutch scott say it took 18months to fully recover from aas
i have been on and off for 2 years more time on the off big time i admitt it and i no its wrong
i have started this pct proticole even though i have had no problems with nuts srinking trouble with erections or sexual drive
i just wanna get myself back to normal then i will start short cycle blasts like one month on 6 weeks off so on
im running hgh at the mo and as iv only just started back training with having time off once my training is under way im gonna use petitides to hold onto wat i got and try and make small lean gains while i recover

I promised con I would help him in every avenue, like adrenal fatigue, which happens during long cycles, cholesterol, which gets seriously compromised as well.
His BP will stabilize once he comes off and, with some of the stuff I am going to have him do I doubt seriously there will be any problems.
But, this will be an interesting learning experience for a guy that has been on for a while.
To be honest, I don’t expect anything less that success.
I know he is a bit worried, but he needs to leave that up to me.
Most of the stuff I am going to give him is over the counter herbal type stuff to help with his cholesterol and adrenal fatigue.

He isn’t going to have kids yet, so that part of the equation does not have to be 100%.
The goal here is to get most everything taken care of. I would not be surprised if he can get a woman pregnant by the time this is all done.

MUSCLEPT · 17-04-2009, 05:22 PM

H,
Can you please help me out on my PCT and correct it if applicable.?. Also when should it actually start..?

CYCLE:
week 1 - 4 tren100 @ 1ml eod
week 1 - 4 stan100 @ 50mg EOD
week 1 - 4 test pro @ eod

PCT

1 shots of 1500IU HCG eod ( total of 8 shots)
45 days nolvadex @ 25mg/d
30 Days Clomid (1st 14r days @ 100mg, rest @ 50mg/d)

the hunter · 17-04-2009, 05:36 PM

weeks 1-4 100mgs tren eod

weeks 1-4 50mgs winstrol ed (winstrol need to be taken everyday due to is very short half life)

weels 1-4 100mgs test prop eod

weeks 1-5 500iu hcg every 3rd day

2 days after last shots start pct -

nolvadex 40/20/20/20

clomid 100/50/50/25

**hackskii** · 17-04-2009, 06:10 PM

4 week cycle?
You could speed the PCT along with doing the HCG during the cycle, and right up to the start of PCT.

Probably wont need a month on SERMS for a month long cycle.

MUSCLEPT · 18-04-2009, 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hackskii

4 week cycle?
You could speed the PCT along with doing the HCG during the cycle, and right up to the start of PCT.

Probably wont need a month on SERMS for a month long cycle.

OK. You mean HCG during the cycle? How many shots and how often of how much?
Here's the thing... i have got 1500UI HCG and if i don't know/can split the amount ...last time i tried it absolutely did not do anything for me..

Regarding the SERMS how would you go about it?
Thanks for your time...

08-01-2009, 06:59 PM	#61 (permalink)
hackskii UK-Muscle Moderator Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Sunny Southern California U.S.A. Posts: 30,078	Re: Here is the Doc's protocol for HPTA recovery. I am using aromasin right now, low dose. Proviron is too expensive and I dont think the return on investment is worth the cost. Letro is very strong, it crushed my libido on cycle. Proviron is one of those things that there seems to be much debate about. Some say it is supressive, some say it isnt, and there are some studies to say either one maybe correct. If a good PCT is outlined and followed, no need for proviron, that just eats up some more of your money, it is not needed for recovery. If it is for sex, PT-141 maybe even a better option. __________________ Power over others is weakness disguised as strength. Scott

10-01-2009, 05:34 PM	#62 (permalink)
taslajrisi Newbie Trainer Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 11	Re: Here is the Doc's protocol for HPTA recovery. Scott Lets assume that we get the HPTA fully recovered and fired up fine. If someone wanted to take off like 6 months or so from AAS (and be natural) but wanted to keep natural test levels elevated.....what would be the best way to do this? Would low dose aromasin or like a 6-oxo work to increase natty test levels and keep the HPTA fully working fine? Just wondering how to maximize natural levels after fully successful HPTA recovery/PCT and not take AAS for a while.

10-01-2009, 05:43 PM	#63 (permalink)
hackskii UK-Muscle Moderator Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Sunny Southern California U.S.A. Posts: 30,078	Re: Here is the Doc's protocol for HPTA recovery. Well, that would be achieved not with drugs, but the strongest drug known to man, food. Not to mention lifestyle, and training. Blocking estrogen for the hell of it in the assumption of raising testosterone levels in men is not a good idea. Well, not unless you are one of those guys that produce alot of estrogen naturally. But certain foods can either raise or lower estrogen. __________________ Power over others is weakness disguised as strength. Scott

23-01-2009, 02:42 AM	#64 (permalink)
taslajrisi Newbie Trainer Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 11	Hackskii Doc's protocol for HPTA recovery. Scott, I am doing the protocol and what i did was 2500 eod for two shots, then 1500 eod for three shots and by my third shot, my balls were huge and almost engorged (big as ever). After that I started doing 1000 eod now. I definately felt the androgen/test surge in system. It seems like the balls went down a bit from that initial engorgement size. Is this normal? I keep reading that a too high a dose initially will render the second or next shots not as effective (anthony roberts PCT). Is this true? Can say for sure they are back to life.....just hope they stay up after HCG and only on serms.......any comments would be appreciated. Thanks

23-01-2009, 03:59 PM	#65 (permalink)
Flex Factor Stepping It Up Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 192	Re: Here is the Doc's protocol for HPTA recovery. Top thread mate as always!!!!

15-04-2009, 07:01 PM	#67 (permalink)
Con Guest Posts: n/a	Re: Here is the Doc's protocol for HPTA recovery. Scott after my contest i am doing 8 weeks of test only, final two weeks are down ramp. Am i correct in running aromasin every day during this period along with hcg every 3rd day until pct begins? Will obviously be pming you closer to the time but i like to get things prepared in my head........ The value of your posts are undeniable, the celery tip for one is a total winner!

15-04-2009, 07:15 PM	#68 (permalink)
hackskii UK-Muscle Moderator Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Sunny Southern California U.S.A. Posts: 30,078	Re: Here is the Doc's protocol for HPTA recovery. Thanks for the kind words mate. What the plan is to keep estrogen in check, not high, not low, run the HCG as kind of a primer to offer some stimulation to the nuts. Ideally, the whole deal with the taper is to get you used to lower androgen levels in the body so you wont crash. Doubt that 3 weeks would offer you this. 8 weeks for sure, and then once you stepped into PCT recovery should be fairly easy. Problems happen when guys run much gear like more than a gram a week for long periods, some guys (I have known), crash on 400mg a week of cyp. Which is 4 times his natty production. So, comming off clean, and going into PCT would be a terrible crash for that dude. Once you get your levels back to about normal endogenous production levels, comming off is nothing more than switching the nuts on. Once the nuts are switched, then it is time to switch the hypothalamus and pituitary. The SERMS would still stimulate the leydig cells above normal LH levels an offer some decent stimulation. Providing you dont get problems with the clomid. Some guys have terrible problems with clomid and mood, it can turn dudes into chicks. Feel sorry for them as clomid is the best thing for priming the pituitary. Hope this explains the game plan better. __________________ Power over others is weakness disguised as strength. Scott

15-04-2009, 07:23 PM	#69 (permalink)
Con Guest Posts: n/a	Re: Here is the Doc's protocol for HPTA recovery. Erm....i think i get it mate As far as doses i really very rarely run any thing over a gram and my rebound will not be that high. More than likely 700mg prop for 5 weeks then 525mg for 1 week 350mg 1 week 175mg 1 week then straight into pct. My real goal with the rebound is to gain some muscle yet keep a good level of conditioning while i come of fat burners and then slowly taper off the cardio so i can start pct with a lean body and hopefully not gain a lot of fat during pct(i will gain some as i rather do that than under eat, i have done that once and results sucked). I have never crashed as such. Clomid is a bit a lame i will admit, moody and eye sight gets a bit weird but i dont care as long as the job gets done I will mail you after my contest and we can chat about how to do every thing completely including the hmg. Thanks for helping me Scott

15-04-2009, 07:36 PM	#70 (permalink)
glanzav Looking Freaky Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: blackwood, gwent Posts: 625	Re: Here is the Doc's protocol for HPTA recovery. so thats for hpta what about full recovery so all blood work is right immune system is strong again didnt dutch scott say it took 18months to fully recover from aas i have been on and off for 2 years more time on the off big time i admitt it and i no its wrong i have started this pct proticole even though i have had no problems with nuts srinking trouble with erections or sexual drive i just wanna get myself back to normal then i will start short cycle blasts like one month on 6 weeks off so on im running hgh at the mo and as iv only just started back training with having time off once my training is under way im gonna use petitides to hold onto wat i got and try and make small lean gains while i recover

17-04-2009, 05:22 PM	#72 (permalink)
MUSCLEPT Newbie Trainer Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Lisbon Posts: 32	Re: Here is the Doc's protocol for HPTA recovery. H, Can you please help me out on my PCT and correct it if applicable.?. Also when should it actually start..? CYCLE: week 1 - 4 tren100 @ 1ml eod week 1 - 4 stan100 @ 50mg EOD week 1 - 4 test pro @ eod PCT 1 shots of 1500IU HCG eod ( total of 8 shots) 45 days nolvadex @ 25mg/d 30 Days Clomid (1st 14r days @ 100mg, rest @ 50mg/d)

17-04-2009, 05:36 PM	#73 (permalink)
the hunter Banned Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 440	Re: Here is the Doc's protocol for HPTA recovery. weeks 1-4 100mgs tren eod weeks 1-4 50mgs winstrol ed (winstrol need to be taken everyday due to is very short half life) weels 1-4 100mgs test prop eod weeks 1-5 500iu hcg every 3rd day 2 days after last shots start pct - nolvadex 40/20/20/20 clomid 100/50/50/25

17-04-2009, 06:10 PM	#74 (permalink)
hackskii UK-Muscle Moderator Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Sunny Southern California U.S.A. Posts: 30,078	Re: Here is the Doc's protocol for HPTA recovery. 4 week cycle? You could speed the PCT along with doing the HCG during the cycle, and right up to the start of PCT. Probably wont need a month on SERMS for a month long cycle. __________________ Power over others is weakness disguised as strength. Scott

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