Superdrol PCT advice - UK-Muscle Body Building Community

GordyR · 17-01-2006, 05:56 PM

Hi guys,

I'm about to run a 3 week cycle of Superdrol . I have had the bottle lying around since before the ban and figured I would put it to good use.

I am planning to do the following:

Week 1 - 10mg
Week 2 - 20mg
Week 3 - 20mg

I have all my supplements sorted for while I am on cycle i.e Milk thistle, Red Yeast Rice with CoQ10, EFA's etc...

I just want to get my PCT sorted. The products I have at my disposal are:

Nolva - Actually branded as Zymoplex (Tamoxifen Citrate) 20mg tabs
Rebound XT

What would you guys recommend for my PCT? Is it worth taking the Rebound XT along with the Nolva or should I just go with the Nolva alone along with some Liver support? If so what mg's do you recommend for each week?

I was planning on running Nolva alone for 4 weeks at 40/40/20/20. Does that sound about right?

Cheers guys, your help is much appreciated.

**hackskii** · 18-01-2006, 10:39 PM

You wont need PCT for a 21 day cycle.

Also your natural testosterone peaks at about 7:00 in the morning so if you take your tab first thing in the morning you will actually have the benefit of less shutdown due to your body not realizing the spike and see it as normal.

You should be fine with that for 3 weeks with no PCT

GordyR · 19-01-2006, 12:51 AM

No PCT? I have to admit that kind of scares me a little. So you think I should just run some Liver support for a few weeks post cycle? Would the Nolva not be beneficial in getting my lipid values back to normal?

Would anyone else care to comment, not that I don't believe you mate but would just like to be sure. Regardless i'll have the Nolva on hand anyway in case I get any nipple puffiness.

**hackskii** · 19-01-2006, 01:09 AM

Yah, run that nolva if you run into trouble with nipple sensitivity or puffiness.

Why not run it like Anabolic Xtreme suggests?

Weeks 1-2 = 2 caps (20 mg) Superdrol
Weeks 3-4 = 3 caps (30 mg) Superdrol
Weeks 5-6 = 4 caps (40 mg) Superdrol
Week 7 = 4 caps (100 mg) Rebound XT
Week 8 = 3 caps (75 mg) Rebound XT
Week 9 = 2 caps (50 mg) Rebound XT
Week 10 = 1 cap (25 mg) Rebound XT

After all it is an over the counter product.
If you see massive gains then you might get shudown.
But there are guys here that do 2 weeks on and 2 weeks off D-bol with no PCT.
There is another guy that uses a 17 day cycle with alot of gear and no PCT.
I dont see how you could have that much shutdown with 3 weeks of an over the counter product.
Not to mention 10mg for the first week the body would'nt even notice it until a long time.
20mg is mild too.

Like I said if you take that in the morning (10mg) the body won't shutdown and it wont shutdown that quick.
Then the next 2 weeks is not enough time for the body to notice much.

I dont think you will be all that impressed in my opinion but good luck.

The only way you will see noticible results is if you overfeed and up the protein alot.
Overfeeding is anabolic for the first 14 days then the body tends to wind down.

GordyR · 19-01-2006, 01:18 AM

My reason for not doing so is that I have read quite a few reports of "delayed-gyno" following an otherwise successful PCT after a Superdrol cycle with the use of AI's like Rebound XT. Perhaps these guys were running stupidly high dosages of SD however which would explain their shutdown.

Regardless, the majority of people seem to be recommending SERMS like Nolva for SD PCT. But what no one seems to agree on is the length of PCT and the dosage.

And now with your suggestion that I do no PCT at all i'm even more confused lol. :p

**hackskii** · 19-01-2006, 01:57 AM

I just read a ton of boards and a bunch of guys rate this stuff.
But for some reason the seemed young to me.

Well, alot of information gets passed around on the net.
Some guys says this then another passes it on and bam its gospel.

Most guys that do 6,8,10 and 12 week cycles do 21 days clomid or 30 days nolvadex.
I find it odd that you would have a PCT that would last longer than your cycle.
To me this is confusing.
Even tho yes nolvadex is known to actually raise test levels and improve lipid profiles.
But there are 2 things that are known to cause uterine cancer:
1. Estrogen
2. Tamoxifen (nolvadex)
Beings that the prostate and the uterus have the same type of cells and nolvadex is associated with uterne cancer then I dont like to use stuff unless it is totally necessary.

The PCT you are asking would be the day after you take your last tab, you would take 20 mg of nolva day 1 then 20mg of nolva for 30 days.

Now if you really want to know a proper PCT for guys taking steroids then read this:
http://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/steroid-testosterone-information/12183-swales-dr-crisler-aas-recovery-protocol.html

But with 3 week cycles I cant see the need for PCT, especially with an over the counter supp like superdrol.

But if you want to keep your gains then take creatine with your PCT.

Bump for more opinions.

GordyR · 19-01-2006, 02:19 AM

Superdrol is no longer over the counter, it has just been banned in both the US and the UK as far as I am aware. Anyway here is a copy/paste ripped from another bodybuilding forum regarding the "delayed gyno" effect.

Quote:

Here I present the collected and summarized empirical data and the "best-of" from the great discussions we have had on that topic.

ENJOY!

I.) THE DATA
----------------------------
----------------------------

PLease first view the attached graph. It's the graphical summary of 6 members who kindly posted their EXACT SD-cycle as well as their PCT-protocol.
(Damn, how can I put this image to be visible inside the thread? Someone help me please)

-All 6 subjects are our forum members (phantom21; pumpedgator; Epihall; D-Termine; SnakeVette80; Jay_D).
-In the graph you see how long they took SD (yellow bars), how much and how long they took RXT (blue), Nolva (red) or 6-OXO (green). On the right side you see the averaged number of weeks that passed after the end of PCT after that each subject reported onset of gyno (if someone said: "5-6 weeks", then I wrote: 5.5 weeks as the average).

There are additionally 5 forum members from the anabolicminds forum (baby_a; Rastar; Mass_69; Jared; reef) who also reported delayed gyno after SD and PCT. Unfortunately they haven't provided enough information in order to incorporate their data into my graphical analysis.
The first of those did a PCT with RXT only and reported gyno "several weeks" after PCT;
Nr.2 did also a RXT-standalone PCT and reported gyno "several months later".
Nr.3 got gyno 4 months after a SD-cycle; however he interponed a "MOHN / 4-AD-cycle" before he did PCT (RXT only).
Nr.4 reported onset of gyno "immediately" after finishing PCT with RXT and "LX" (LeanExtreme).
Finally, Nr.5 (reef) reported the probably most intriguing thing I have read so far: He did 2 SD-cycles: After the first he did an "old-school" Nolva-only PCT without any problems. Some time later he did his 2nd SD-cycle. This time he took RXT only for PCT because he ran out of Nolva. Guess what? The guy got gyno 4 weeks after he finished his RXT-PCT.

Here I will shortly summarize the theories that have been proposed so far about the origin and the mechanisms of delayed gyno after SD by several members from this or the anabolicminds forum. There were too MANY members, to mention them all; but it was a pleasure to see guys like BigCat, w-llewellyn and Dr.D (that's actually NOT me, this is one of the masterminds from designer supplements, who is posting at AM) chiming in and commenting on the issue.

II.THE THEORIES AND ARGUMENTS
-----------------------------------------------
-----------------------------------------------

1.) Delayed Gyno is some direct pro-estrogenic effect from SD.
--------------------------------------------------------------
COMMENT: This has been discarded because a) SD is supposed to aromatize very weakly. If it would have some "secret" pro-estrogenic action, its very short half-life (estimated 8 h) would prevent any DELAYED action.

2.) Some steroids, among them SD are supposed to cause a rebound of testosteron production after several weeks / months of recovery after a cycle. Some guys called this the "SD-echo". The overshooting test is responsible for consecutive convcersion to estrogen via aromatase and finally leads to gyno.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
COMMENT: There is probably something like a "testosteron-echo". Several people have reported such observations, but no one of them got actually gyno! The increased testosteron protects you from getting gyno even if your estrogen is elevated by providing a beneficial test-to estrogen-ratio.

3.) There is no "delayed gyno from SD" phenomenon at all. From thousends of people who did a SD-cycle there are relatively few who reported this issue. Some people are genetically prone to get gyno even after slight hormonal imbalances. Such imbalances can be caused by ANY steroid and are not specific for SD or the PCT. After all, there might be a "gyno-hysteria", with paple falsely reporting "gyno" even when they feel their nipples itch a bit, which seems to occur quite often when taking steroids.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
COMMENT: Well that argument is hard to beat, because we don't have the numbers. I have gathered 11 people who reported delayed gyno just by looking on two forums. It can be assumed that there a quite a few more, whom we don't know because they just never come to these forums. A realistical estimation would be to say: We have appr. 10 reported gyno-cases on 1000 people who used SD (that would be a rate of <1%). Well in medicine a rate of 1% is HIGH!!! Huge pharmaceutical companies get in HUGE trouble even if 10 people from 1 million get some serious adverse effects from a drug(remember the Lipobay scandal or the COX-2 scandal?). So, an adverse effect that is in the range of 1% is not a seldom or rare effect.
Even if half of the people who reported gyno don't have real gyno, there are more than enough cases to make this a considerable ISSUE!

4. Improperly off-tapered PCT led to estrogen rebound, that causes the gyno after some time.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
COMMENT: Well, as we see in the graph, we have virtually all combinations of down-tapering, up-tapering, constant dosing etc. So even if theoretically correct, proper downtapering during PCT seems to not protect entirely against delayed gyno.

5.) The use of Aromatase-Inhibitors after a steroid-cycle is the key for delayed gyno. It has been hypothesized that AIs lead to a huge up-regulation either of estrogen-receptors or the aromatase-enzyme, or both. When testosterone is slowly recovering after a cycle and has not yet reached full capacity-levels, the explosively ramping up of estrogen-production (aromatse upped) will lead to massive estrogenic action at peripheral tissues (additionally by highly sensitized tissue-receptors). This leads to a SIGNIFICANT dysbalance of the testosteron-to-estrogen-ratio wich is the main signal for breast tissue to grow. At that moment gyno-development starts, and after some some weeks you can not only feel it but also see it!
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
COMMENT: This is my favoured theory so far. It is very logical in itself. However, we don't have experimental evidence for that, so it still remains a theory. What speaks dor this teory is that litterally ALL cases I found on BB.com as well as on AM-forum did their PCT with an AI alone or in combination with Nolva. Their might be one single exception to this (there is a guy called "Dmitry" or alike whose posts I didn't entirelly understood. He seems to have used only Nolva for PCT, but that is not clear). Even if there would be one case, there are 11 cases that stands against. So, possibly AIs are not the ENTIRE explanation but they SEEM to be the major RISK-FACTOR to develop delayed gyno after SD.
However, the overall risk to get delayed gyno after sd is about 1%. From this 1% 0.9% can - possibly-be accounted for by AIs.

6. (UPDATE) The combination of a STRONG shutdown of testosteron-production (induced by a STRONG androgenic substance) with a STRONG estrogenic hypersensitation (induced by an AI) seems to be crucial in order to push the ratio of testosteron-to-estrogen-(receptor-action) beyond a critical threshold for developing gyno.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
COMMENT: Several forum members have pointed to the observation that apparently all delayed-gyno cases have been reported from users who had an AI during PCT + SD during ON cycle. To date no reports have appeard on delayd gyno after other designer steroids like Pheraplex (PP) or one of the E...Max derivates. This is in fact an intriguing point. It has been suggested that SD may have stronger androgenic side effects then PP /Emax. Moreover, there was a sidenote from BigCat that delayed gyno has also been occasionally observed in people who were on "traditional" steroids (e.g. testosteron), which also have STRONG androgenic action. Taken together, The synergistical interplay of these said factors can be summed up as follows:
the stronger the estrogenic hyperactivity (induced by AI) AND the stronger the testosteron-hypoactivity is, the higher is the risk to develop delayed gyno. (It's again the RATIO)
This is in fact almost the same as was proposed in theory Nr.5, with the exception that the amount of testosteron-shutdown is more appreciated now.

So, my precluding thoughts are:
If you plan to do a cycly with a steroid that has strong androgenic action and if you are ANXIOUS to get gyno or if you ever had (pubertal) gyno or if you have a highly sensitized estrogenic system by one or more previous steroid cycles, than you should at least THINK about using or not using AIs for your PCT because Ais seems to add to the risk to get gyno.

EDIT: Bloute just remembered me to mention the DHEA-problem:
-----------------------------------------------------------------
The intake of DHEA to support PCT is a standard recommendation in the Superdol and PCT threads. However, BifCat pointed to the fact that during PCT, the intake of an additional steroid or pro-steroid might slow down the recovery of the testosterone-production. If that holds true, than the addition of DHEA will even further impair the testosteron-to-estrogen-ratio during and after PCT and by that further increase the risk to get delayed gyno. That was a very good pont. Unfortunately we don't have enough data. I know that 2 of the 11 subjects I mentioned above did take DHEA. Perhaps these guys could post that information here.

I think you may be understimating Superdrol's potency hackskii. I understand that there was some confusion about it when it was first released with many people assuming it was some kind of pro-hormone. In fact it is an anabolic/androgenic steroid and also seems to seriously effect blood lipid levels.

I understand your confusion about my intention to run PCT for a week longer than the cycle itself. Normally one would run the PCT for the same length as the cycle but I have had a few recommendations that contradict that in the case of Superdrol.

There is so much conflicting information out there regarding PCT for this product therefore I am just trying to get as many opinions as possible before making my own mind up. I'm sure you can understand.

For the record I am 25 so i'm not just a kid wanting an easy ride.

**hackskii** · 19-01-2006, 05:08 PM

Ok then take the nolvadex @ 20mg for 20 days, drop that to 10mg (half tab) for another 5 days then drop that in half 5mg (1/4 tab) for another 5 days
There wont be any cause for estrogen rebounding.
That PCT will for sure be long enough to keep you out of the loop for shutdown (in theory).

Total PCT time= 30 days which is usual for any PCT using nolvadex.

I did read on some other forum that there was some strong progestin effect here using superdrol and that is how they got around the ban before they got the ban on superdrol.

I want you to do a log and tell me how you did ok?

Again if you want results you will seriously need to eat with this and totally up the protein.

Lipid profile problem?
Niacin (get the coated one so you dont have flushing). Best one here.
Garlic
Antioxidants are very important when HDL's go low, this is your only defense against oxidized LDL's, this is totally important. So something like OPC (My fave antioxidant).
Vitamin E
Vitamin C
Vitamin D
beta-carotine
selenium

non antioxidants but helpfull with cholesterol
Fish oils
apple pectin

Choose a few difrent ones as they have a synergistic effect when used together.
Niacin is not an antioxidant but will drive down LDL's and fish oils will drive down triglycerides.
Apple pectin is a soulable fiber and will take that out and remove it in the form as bile.

17-01-2006, 05:56 PM	#1 (permalink)
GordyR Newbie Trainer Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 42	Superdrol PCT advice Hi guys, I'm about to run a 3 week cycle of Superdrol . I have had the bottle lying around since before the ban and figured I would put it to good use. I am planning to do the following: Week 1 - 10mg Week 2 - 20mg Week 3 - 20mg I have all my supplements sorted for while I am on cycle i.e Milk thistle, Red Yeast Rice with CoQ10, EFA's etc... I just want to get my PCT sorted. The products I have at my disposal are: Nolva - Actually branded as Zymoplex (Tamoxifen Citrate) 20mg tabs Rebound XT What would you guys recommend for my PCT? Is it worth taking the Rebound XT along with the Nolva or should I just go with the Nolva alone along with some Liver support? If so what mg's do you recommend for each week? I was planning on running Nolva alone for 4 weeks at 40/40/20/20. Does that sound about right? Cheers guys, your help is much appreciated. Last edited by GordyR; 17-01-2006 at 11:45 PM.

18-01-2006, 10:39 PM	#2 (permalink)
hackskii Super Moderator Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Sunny Southern California U.S.A. Posts: 22,517	You wont need PCT for a 21 day cycle. Also your natural testosterone peaks at about 7:00 in the morning so if you take your tab first thing in the morning you will actually have the benefit of less shutdown due to your body not realizing the spike and see it as normal. You should be fine with that for 3 weeks with no PCT __________________ "Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away." - George Carlin Scott To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

19-01-2006, 01:09 AM	#4 (permalink)
hackskii Super Moderator Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Sunny Southern California U.S.A. Posts: 22,517	Yah, run that nolva if you run into trouble with nipple sensitivity or puffiness. Why not run it like Anabolic Xtreme suggests? Weeks 1-2 = 2 caps (20 mg) Superdrol Weeks 3-4 = 3 caps (30 mg) Superdrol Weeks 5-6 = 4 caps (40 mg) Superdrol Week 7 = 4 caps (100 mg) Rebound XT Week 8 = 3 caps (75 mg) Rebound XT Week 9 = 2 caps (50 mg) Rebound XT Week 10 = 1 cap (25 mg) Rebound XT After all it is an over the counter product. If you see massive gains then you might get shudown. But there are guys here that do 2 weeks on and 2 weeks off D-bol with no PCT. There is another guy that uses a 17 day cycle with alot of gear and no PCT. I dont see how you could have that much shutdown with 3 weeks of an over the counter product. Not to mention 10mg for the first week the body would'nt even notice it until a long time. 20mg is mild too. Like I said if you take that in the morning (10mg) the body won't shutdown and it wont shutdown that quick. Then the next 2 weeks is not enough time for the body to notice much. I dont think you will be all that impressed in my opinion but good luck. The only way you will see noticible results is if you overfeed and up the protein alot. Overfeeding is anabolic for the first 14 days then the body tends to wind down. __________________ "Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away." - George Carlin Scott To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. Last edited by hackskii; 19-01-2006 at 01:15 AM.

19-01-2006, 01:57 AM	#6 (permalink)
hackskii Super Moderator Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Sunny Southern California U.S.A. Posts: 22,517	I just read a ton of boards and a bunch of guys rate this stuff. But for some reason the seemed young to me. Well, alot of information gets passed around on the net. Some guys says this then another passes it on and bam its gospel. Most guys that do 6,8,10 and 12 week cycles do 21 days clomid or 30 days nolvadex. I find it odd that you would have a PCT that would last longer than your cycle. To me this is confusing. Even tho yes nolvadex is known to actually raise test levels and improve lipid profiles. But there are 2 things that are known to cause uterine cancer: 1. Estrogen 2. Tamoxifen (nolvadex) Beings that the prostate and the uterus have the same type of cells and nolvadex is associated with uterne cancer then I dont like to use stuff unless it is totally necessary. The PCT you are asking would be the day after you take your last tab, you would take 20 mg of nolva day 1 then 20mg of nolva for 30 days. Now if you really want to know a proper PCT for guys taking steroids then read this: http://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/steroid-testosterone-information/12183-swales-dr-crisler-aas-recovery-protocol.html But with 3 week cycles I cant see the need for PCT, especially with an over the counter supp like superdrol. But if you want to keep your gains then take creatine with your PCT. Bump for more opinions. __________________ "Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away." - George Carlin Scott To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

19-01-2006, 05:08 PM	#8 (permalink)
hackskii Super Moderator Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Sunny Southern California U.S.A. Posts: 22,517	Ok then take the nolvadex @ 20mg for 20 days, drop that to 10mg (half tab) for another 5 days then drop that in half 5mg (1/4 tab) for another 5 days There wont be any cause for estrogen rebounding. That PCT will for sure be long enough to keep you out of the loop for shutdown (in theory). Total PCT time= 30 days which is usual for any PCT using nolvadex. I did read on some other forum that there was some strong progestin effect here using superdrol and that is how they got around the ban before they got the ban on superdrol. I want you to do a log and tell me how you did ok? Again if you want results you will seriously need to eat with this and totally up the protein. Lipid profile problem? Niacin (get the coated one so you dont have flushing). Best one here. Garlic Antioxidants are very important when HDL's go low, this is your only defense against oxidized LDL's, this is totally important. So something like OPC (My fave antioxidant). Vitamin E Vitamin C Vitamin D beta-carotine selenium non antioxidants but helpfull with cholesterol Fish oils apple pectin Choose a few difrent ones as they have a synergistic effect when used together. Niacin is not an antioxidant but will drive down LDL's and fish oils will drive down triglycerides. Apple pectin is a soulable fiber and will take that out and remove it in the form as bile. __________________ "Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away." - George Carlin Scott To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. Last edited by hackskii; 19-01-2006 at 05:10 PM.

19-01-2006, 12:51 AM	#3 (permalink)
GordyR Newbie Trainer Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 42	No PCT? I have to admit that kind of scares me a little. So you think I should just run some Liver support for a few weeks post cycle? Would the Nolva not be beneficial in getting my lipid values back to normal? Would anyone else care to comment, not that I don't believe you mate but would just like to be sure. Regardless i'll have the Nolva on hand anyway in case I get any nipple puffiness.

19-01-2006, 01:18 AM	#5 (permalink)
GordyR Newbie Trainer Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 42	My reason for not doing so is that I have read quite a few reports of "delayed-gyno" following an otherwise successful PCT after a Superdrol cycle with the use of AI's like Rebound XT. Perhaps these guys were running stupidly high dosages of SD however which would explain their shutdown. Regardless, the majority of people seem to be recommending SERMS like Nolva for SD PCT. But what no one seems to agree on is the length of PCT and the dosage. And now with your suggestion that I do no PCT at all i'm even more confused lol. :p

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