Dr.'s Post cycle recovery and worth reading. - UK-Muscle Body Building Community

**hackskii** · 06-01-2004, 01:02 AM

This might be the way to go

Or should I say grow

This is on another thread but I feel this might not be seen otherwise.

I advise my AAS patients to use small amounts of HCG (250IU to 500IU) two days each week, right from the beginning of the cycle. This serves to maintain testicular form and function. It makes more sense to me to keep the horse in the barn, so to speak, then to have to chase it across three counties later on. I am also a big fan of maintaining estrogen within physiological ranges. Both therapies have been shown to hasten recovery.

Any more than 500IU of HCG per day causes too much aromatase activity. Some feel aromatase is actually toxic to the Leydig cells of the testes. You are then inducing primary hypogonadism (which is permanent) while treating steroid-induced secondary (hypogonadotrophic) hypogonadism (which is temporary--hopefully).

If 250IU or 500IU on two days each week isn’t enough to stave off testicular atrophy, then I recommend using it more days each week (as opposed to taking larger doses). In fact, I wouldn’t mind having a guy use 250IU per day ALL THROUGH the cycle. Those that have tell me they thus avoid that edgy, burned-out feeling they usually get. They also say they simply feel better each day. Subjective reports, to be sure, but they are hard not to appreciate. Especially when HCG is so inexpensive.

The testes are then ready, willing and able to again produce testosterone at the end of the cycle. LH levels rise fairly rapidly, but endogenous testosterone production is limited by lack of use. I also want to make sure a SERM, such as Clomid or Nolvadex, is at effective serum dosage (around 100mg QD for Clomid, 20-40mg QD for Nolvadex) when serum androgen levels drop to a concentration roughly equal to 200mg of testosterone per week. That is when androgenic inhibition at the HP no longer dominates over estrogenic antagonism with respect to inducing LH production. Of course, if the fellow has been doing Clomid or Nolvadex all along the way (and I now prefer Nolvadex over Clomid, due to the possibility of negative sides from the Clomid), he is all set to simply continue it at the end (no need to switch from one to the other). BTW, I see no evidence of any benefit in using BOTH SERM’s at the same time. I used to think a couple of weeks of the SERM was enough; now I like to see an entire month after the last shot of AAS (and migration of long to short esters as the cycle matures). Tapering the SERM is probably a good idea during the last week, as well.

I want my patients to stop taking HCG within a week after the end of the cycle. The testosterone production it induces will further inhibit recovery, as will using Androgel, or any other testosterone preparation, while in recovery. There is no escaping this, as there is no such thing as a “bridge”. Just because you are not inhibiting the HPTA for the entire 24 hours does not mean you are not suppressing it at all. IOW, you can’t “fool” the body—it is smarter than you are.

I like Arimidex during the cycle (in fact, consider use of an AI while taking aromatisables a necessity) but it ABSOLUTELY should not be used post cycle (even though it has been shown to increase LH production) because the risk of driving estrogen too low, and therefore further damaging an already compromised Lipid Profile, is too great (this also drives libido back into the ground—and we don’t want that, do we?).

All this is meant to get my guys through recovery as fast as possible (the real goal, yes?). So far, all of them who have tried it have reported they are recovering faster than when they have tried other protocols.

demon · 06-01-2004, 10:46 PM

I think I'll bookmark this, so that I can find it when I'm doing my next cycle!

**robdog** · 07-01-2004, 12:23 PM

how do you bookmark something

**Great White** · 07-01-2004, 12:30 PM

Can either subscribe to the thread or i think he means add to favourites in his web browser

Paul

**hackskii** · 07-01-2004, 01:33 PM

Add favorite to my browser. I have a folder called steroids. Go figure!

**Great White** · 07-01-2004, 04:34 PM

demon · 07-01-2004, 10:15 PM

Yeah, I just meant I was going to add to my favourites in IE.

**hackskii** · 08-01-2004, 12:13 AM

Yes, I would copy and paste it into your word, works or wordpad and save it onto your desktop. Nice and handy...I am lazy so I think like that. I save articles so if I cant get online and want to read, it is local. Unless I get a hard drive crash or something like that. I did have a chick rip off all my stuff once cuz she thought I was cheating on me but that is another story all in itself.

Demon, are your nuts still small?

demon · 08-01-2004, 04:25 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by hackskii
Yes, I would copy and paste it into your word, works or wordpad and save it onto your desktop.

And if you use word, you can password-protect the file, which is handy if you're worried about privacy and people finding out you take steroids.

Quote:

Demon, are your nuts still small?

I think so hackskii. They're not tiny, but I think they are smaller than they were. Maybe I'm just being paranoid!

**hackskii** · 08-01-2004, 06:02 PM

I would be willing to say that if you think they are smaller then they might be. I notice that I check them guys all the time and when they are not feeling like they are fat then I take iu of hcg and in a day no more than 2 they are fat again.

06-01-2004, 01:02 AM	#1 (permalink)
hackskii UK-Muscle Moderator Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Sunny Southern California U.S.A. Posts: 23,632	Dr.'s Post cycle recovery and worth reading. This might be the way to go Or should I say grow This is on another thread but I feel this might not be seen otherwise. I advise my AAS patients to use small amounts of HCG (250IU to 500IU) two days each week, right from the beginning of the cycle. This serves to maintain testicular form and function. It makes more sense to me to keep the horse in the barn, so to speak, then to have to chase it across three counties later on. I am also a big fan of maintaining estrogen within physiological ranges. Both therapies have been shown to hasten recovery. Any more than 500IU of HCG per day causes too much aromatase activity. Some feel aromatase is actually toxic to the Leydig cells of the testes. You are then inducing primary hypogonadism (which is permanent) while treating steroid-induced secondary (hypogonadotrophic) hypogonadism (which is temporary--hopefully). If 250IU or 500IU on two days each week isn’t enough to stave off testicular atrophy, then I recommend using it more days each week (as opposed to taking larger doses). In fact, I wouldn’t mind having a guy use 250IU per day ALL THROUGH the cycle. Those that have tell me they thus avoid that edgy, burned-out feeling they usually get. They also say they simply feel better each day. Subjective reports, to be sure, but they are hard not to appreciate. Especially when HCG is so inexpensive. The testes are then ready, willing and able to again produce testosterone at the end of the cycle. LH levels rise fairly rapidly, but endogenous testosterone production is limited by lack of use. I also want to make sure a SERM, such as Clomid or Nolvadex, is at effective serum dosage (around 100mg QD for Clomid, 20-40mg QD for Nolvadex) when serum androgen levels drop to a concentration roughly equal to 200mg of testosterone per week. That is when androgenic inhibition at the HP no longer dominates over estrogenic antagonism with respect to inducing LH production. Of course, if the fellow has been doing Clomid or Nolvadex all along the way (and I now prefer Nolvadex over Clomid, due to the possibility of negative sides from the Clomid), he is all set to simply continue it at the end (no need to switch from one to the other). BTW, I see no evidence of any benefit in using BOTH SERM’s at the same time. I used to think a couple of weeks of the SERM was enough; now I like to see an entire month after the last shot of AAS (and migration of long to short esters as the cycle matures). Tapering the SERM is probably a good idea during the last week, as well. I want my patients to stop taking HCG within a week after the end of the cycle. The testosterone production it induces will further inhibit recovery, as will using Androgel, or any other testosterone preparation, while in recovery. There is no escaping this, as there is no such thing as a “bridge”. Just because you are not inhibiting the HPTA for the entire 24 hours does not mean you are not suppressing it at all. IOW, you can’t “fool” the body—it is smarter than you are. I like Arimidex during the cycle (in fact, consider use of an AI while taking aromatisables a necessity) but it ABSOLUTELY should not be used post cycle (even though it has been shown to increase LH production) because the risk of driving estrogen too low, and therefore further damaging an already compromised Lipid Profile, is too great (this also drives libido back into the ground—and we don’t want that, do we?). All this is meant to get my guys through recovery as fast as possible (the real goal, yes?). So far, all of them who have tried it have reported they are recovering faster than when they have tried other protocols. __________________ "Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away." - George Carlin Scott To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

06-01-2004, 10:46 PM	#2 (permalink)
demon Looking Freaky Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Northern Ireland Posts: 809	I think I'll bookmark this, so that I can find it when I'm doing my next cycle! __________________ DEMON "We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence then, is not an act, but a habit." - Aristotle

07-01-2004, 12:23 PM	#3 (permalink)
robdog UK-Muscle Moderator Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Home!! Posts: 5,685	how do you bookmark something __________________ To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. 25% off for UKM members (discount code UKM25)

07-01-2004, 12:30 PM	#4 (permalink)
Great White Sexy Moderator Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 9,272	Can either subscribe to the thread or i think he means add to favourites in his web browser Paul __________________ Welcome to Uk-Muscle.co.uk "I was born perfect, and just like the great white shark, have never had to evolve!" To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. - Hardcore Bodybuilding & Powerlifting Community! To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. - Bodybuilding & Sports Video Sharing Community!

07-01-2004, 01:33 PM	#5 (permalink)
hackskii UK-Muscle Moderator Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Sunny Southern California U.S.A. Posts: 23,632	Add favorite to my browser. I have a folder called steroids. Go figure! __________________ "Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away." - George Carlin Scott To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

07-01-2004, 04:34 PM	#6 (permalink)
Great White Sexy Moderator Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 9,272	Lol __________________ Welcome to Uk-Muscle.co.uk "I was born perfect, and just like the great white shark, have never had to evolve!" To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. - Hardcore Bodybuilding & Powerlifting Community! To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. - Bodybuilding & Sports Video Sharing Community!

07-01-2004, 10:15 PM	#7 (permalink)
demon Looking Freaky Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Northern Ireland Posts: 809	Yeah, I just meant I was going to add to my favourites in IE. __________________ DEMON "We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence then, is not an act, but a habit." - Aristotle

08-01-2004, 12:13 AM	#8 (permalink)
hackskii UK-Muscle Moderator Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Sunny Southern California U.S.A. Posts: 23,632	Yes, I would copy and paste it into your word, works or wordpad and save it onto your desktop. Nice and handy...I am lazy so I think like that. I save articles so if I cant get online and want to read, it is local. Unless I get a hard drive crash or something like that. I did have a chick rip off all my stuff once cuz she thought I was cheating on me but that is another story all in itself. Demon, are your nuts still small? __________________ "Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away." - George Carlin Scott To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

08-01-2004, 06:02 PM	#10 (permalink)
hackskii UK-Muscle Moderator Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Sunny Southern California U.S.A. Posts: 23,632	I would be willing to say that if you think they are smaller then they might be. I notice that I check them guys all the time and when they are not feeling like they are fat then I take iu of hcg and in a day no more than 2 they are fat again. __________________ "Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away." - George Carlin Scott To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

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