Paul1

Up to now I have been using a blended protein for my shakes throughout the day and a whey and dex mix for PWO.

What are your thoughts on using a blended protein with either Dex/WMS as a PWO shake, is there any pro's or con's?

Cheers

Paul

Conrad

what do you mean by a protein blend?...concentrate and isolate blend? blend of different protein powders? or are you just refering to a protein blended with wms or dextrose?

as far as mixing wms or dextrose with your PWO shake, both are ideal. WMS is preferable since its a complex carb and unlike dextrose (a simple carb source) it wont lead to a big insulin spike. Despite being a complex carb it has a really rapid rate of absorption (most complex carbs like scots oats digest really slowly...this isnt ideal for post workout since you want you carbs to absorb quickly and help get your whey protein, creatine, aminos and whatever else you use in you shake into your muscles). Maltodextrin is also a good alternative. Its cheaper because although its a complex carb it behaves like dextose and glucose in so far that it causes a insulin spike. However ive recently read that when taken with whey its has a lower gycemic level...so worth it if you dont want to spend on wms. hope this helps

Paul1

When I say protein blend I mean Whey, Egg white and Ceasin, a sort of timed released protein shake to use in between meals.

What I was trying to say is would it be more beneficial to use a blend of proteins with a carb source or just whey and a carb source PWO.

I understand that whey is absorbed very quickly and PWO is when you need it the most, however my recconing behind it is since I have my meal around 1Hr after training, by the time your whey is running out 30 - 40 min), the egg white is kicking in and you will never be out of protein.

I would eat sooner but I just can't face food too soon after training

Cheers

Paul

leeston

personally I would opt for a straightforward hydrolysed whey (isolate or concentrate) protein power.

Use the 'mixed' protein for later in the day or at night.

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Boditronics Ltd

Guys Take a look at this Artcle and Study , Latest Research Suggests a Blend is actually best for PWO .. THats Why we designed Express Whey with 40% Micellar Casein 60% Whey ...

quote:

Understanding protein digestion and its relationship to amino acids and protein synthesis for muscle growth will further your knowledge for choosing the right protein supplement for your athletic needs. As mentioned earlier, one of the most important values of protein is the nitrogen it contains, the amino acids in the protein you eat are the primary transporters delivering nitrogen to your body�s cells. The rate that these amino acids are absorbed in the gut plays a major role in the synthesis of muscle and the fate of the nitrogen they are delivering. Muscle growth is about retaining more protein in the muscle cells. Moderate increases in amino acid levels will inhibit muscle breakdown, higher increases in amino acid concentration will stimulate protein synthesis. So in simple terms, we want to increase the number of amino acids in the bloodstream and keep them there as long as possible. Whey protein is marketed by many companies as the best source of protein ever � the end all. Their stance is based on the scientific fact that whey protein is digested and absorbed at a very rapid rate, therein lays the rationale, that it makes the amino acids more readily available. It has been described many times as a virtual downpour of amino acids into the system. However, yes � in fact whey does provide the amino acids into the bloodstream very rapidly � it fails to keep these little critters around very long. Fast in � fast out. In 1997 researchers published a study titled Slow and Fast Dietary Proteins Differently Modulate Postprandial Accretion (Boirie Y, et al. Proceedings of the National Academy of Science 94(26):14930-35). This research reports that whey protein is burned (oxidized) almost as much as it is used for protein synthesis, metabolically that means it is digested and absorbed too quickly, so there isn�t much time for it to be utilized for protein synthesis, so the liver uses this extra shower of amino acids for energy.

Now lets look at casein. The major claim put forth by marketers slamming casein as a protein source relates to its slow digestion � unlike whey�s rapid digestion and absorption. You are told with fancy graphs and lengthy ads (advertorials) that slow digestion is bad. On the other side of the fence, you have been told that fast is better. Then the casein group tells you slow is better. So who is right? Well, casein does digest at a slower rate, meaning that it definitely takes longer for it to be absorbed and utilized. You see, casein dissolves relatively poorly in water and it takes more time to be digested in the gut and it releases amino acids at a much slower pace into the bloodstream � a sprinkling of amino acids over an extended period of time as it has been referred to. Slow in � longer in. Which is better? Who is right and who is wrong? They are both wrong. Neither source is superior to the other; they each offer benefits and drawbacks as a stand-alone source of protein. A combination of the two is actually what is better. Look at it this way; we want to maintain a positive nitrogen balance to promote lean mass gains right?~ T. Giles

Also supported by study

quote:

The effects of protein and amino acid supplementation on performance and training adaptations during ten weeks of resistance training. J. Strength Cond. Res. 20(3):643-653. 2006.-

Kerksick, C.M., C.J. Rasmussen, S.L. Lancaster, B. Magu, P. Smith, C. Melton, M. Greenwood, A.L. Almada, C.P. Earnest, and R.B. Kreider.

The purpose of this study was to examine the effects of whey protein supplementation on body composition, muscular strength, muscular endurance, and anaerobic capacity during 10 weeks of resistance training. Thirty-six resistance-trained males (31.0 +/- 8.0 years, 179.1 +/- 8.0 cm, 84.0 +/- 12.9 kg, 17.8 +/- 6.6%) followed a 4 days-per-week split body part resistance training program for 10 weeks. Three groups of supplements were randomly assigned, prior to the beginning of the exercise program, in a double-blind manner to all subjects: 48 g per day (g.d(-1)) carbohydrate placebo (P), 40 g.d(-1) of whey protein + 8 g.d(-1) of casein (WC), or 40 g.d(-1) of whey protein + 3 g.d(-1) branched-chain amino acids + 5 g.d(-1) l-glutamine (WBG). At 0, 5, and 10 weeks, subjects were tested for fasting blood samples, body mass, body composition using dual-energy x-ray absorptiometry (DEXA), 1 repetition maximum (1RM) bench and leg press, 80% 1RM maximal repetitions to fatigue for bench press and leg press, and 30-second Wingate anaerobic capacity tests. No changes (p > 0.05) were noted in all groups for energy intake, training volume, blood parameters, and anaerobic capacity. WC experienced the greatest increases in DEXA lean mass (P = 0.0 +/- 0.9; WC = 1.9 +/- 0.6; WBG = -0.1 +/- 0.3 kg, p < 0.05) and DEXA fat-free mass (P = 0.1 +/- 1.0; WC = 1.8 +/- 0.6; WBG = -0.1 +/- 0.2 kg, p < 0.05). Significant increases in 1RM bench press and leg press were observed in all groups after 10 weeks. In this study, the combination of whey and casein protein promoted the greatest increases in fat-free mass after 10 weeks of heavy resistance training. Athletes, coaches, and nutritionists can use these findings to increase fat-free mass and to improve body composition during resistance training.
PMID: 16937979 [PubMed - in process]
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=AbstractPlus&list_uids=16937979&query_hl=1&itool=pubmed_docsum

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Ultrasonic

Boditronics - interesting post. I am aware of the Kerksick et al study but have not been able to get hold of the full paper, just the abstract you have posted. Have you been able to read it? The abstract doesn't say if the protein was taken as a PWO drink, or at some other time of day, and I'd be very interested to know which was the case. If it is taken immediately PWO it would also be interesting to know when their next meal was. This does though seem a very important study since it's the first one I've come across publishing the effects of long term protein supplementation.

To my mind, whether having caesin in a PWO drink is a good idea or not depends very much when your next meal will be. For most people here I expect they normally have a proper meal about 60-90 minutes after their PWO drink, in which case caesin would IMHO seem a bad idea. The reason being it will still be in the stomach when the meal is eaten and will slow absorption of the nutrients from this meal.

For what little it's worth what I do is the following. I work out typically 18:00 to 19:00, have a PWO drink at 19:00, a meal at 20:30, and then a protein drink which is a 50:50 mix of whey and caesin at 23:00 just before I go to bed.

Paul1

Thanks for the info Wurzel, great stuff!!

Conrad

sry Paul...lost you earlier....ive been using boditronics mass attck for a while... has a similar blend of whey and micellar casein to express whey and ive found that really helped me to start bulking. Also invested in some micellar casein from reflex. Would recommend the blend to ensure growth...deffers worked for me.