clean bulking - UK-Muscle Body Building Community

**Jimmy** · 04-01-2005, 05:52 PM

So what are the benefits??

I was discussing this idea today with one of my mates and I feel it important to share here.

You see, we all gain in the early stages of a diet, which I put down to a regular intake of quality nutrients.

When we eat clean, moderate kcals we deplete glycogen slowly until we start to get hungry and thats when we start to eat all meals on the button.

Now lets say we wernt dieting for something as important as a show. We could at this point afford to squeeze another quality meal, yes??

I have been using this aproach with a few of the guys I help and it works.

My opinion is that too many people bulk on far too many kcals in the first place, leaving them too full to eat the whole meal or indeed miss a meal!!

Keep the kcals moderate and well balanced and we start to make every kcal work for us.

I see no reason why one cant bulk on quality food AND loose BF, in fact I have proven it with two of my guys!!

The problem is will power! When that hungry/week feeling sets in, its hard to eat chicken when mcvities is calling. A way round this is to have a cheat meal every 3 days, which helps curb the cravings and help keep sanity

**robdog** · 04-01-2005, 08:39 PM

Some good points made there mate. Also i was reading what you wrote on another fourm about how some bodybuilders get realy out of shape off season so have to diet so hard when the want to compete they cant take it and stop the diet.

**Jimmy** · 04-01-2005, 08:49 PM

Yes Rob.....if people were to eat clean they would gain mass and loose BF just as you have!!

winger · 05-01-2005, 02:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jimmy

Yes Rob.....if people were to eat clean they would gain mass and loose BF just as you have!!

This is true, but if you eat when you are hungry, it is too late. You will eat to much and elevate blood sugar and pump insuline and then store fat. If you eat when you are not hungry then you will minimise this.

powerU · 05-01-2005, 09:28 AM

I find a good method is to prepare meals in advance, then you simply eat what you've prepared, the quantities of which won't be dictated by your hunger.

Jock · 05-01-2005, 02:47 PM

I think it is possible but only for the very dedicated, the most bf I have ever added during bulking is probably about 1%, only because I ate only quality calories every 2 hours.

Sometimes I think people get confused, large amounts of calories are probably the most important factor when trying to bulk, but a lot of people just assume this is the ONLY factor when preparing a bulking diet, and they don't realise that QUALITY of calories consumed will have a large bearing on how much bf they gain.

I have gained muscle and lost fat on a cutting diet which consisted of about 375g of protein a day around 150g of carbs (60g of which where PWO) and around 140g fat, having said that I was using Test Prop, Tren, T3, ECA and Clen.

Gaining muscle and losing fat is possible but very hard, adding drugs into the equation makes things a hellavalot easier to accomplish, which is probably most people choose to use them.

Just my thoughts, Jock

philipebrown · 05-01-2005, 03:28 PM

hya gang

After starting training again after an excessive xmas on the drink and chocolate i have decided NOT to deit anymore (for the moment). I have realised that I have spent far too long dieting now and what is happening to me is that i am not eating enough to gain muscle but on the flip side i am going out and cheating too much on a weekend that i aint losing any fat either! so i am going to spend most of the early part of the year on a clean bulker, gradually increasing my carbs but sticking to brown rice potatoes and oats.

To shock my body back into things, i have started a new routine for a month which consists of nothing but squats, deadlifts and bench press 3 x week while upping my food and keepin it clean! so long as i maintain my bodyfat, i'll be happy so long as i can add some muscle.

Unfortunately in one way i am resigned to giving up the gear for at least 3 months as i had a bad acne problem from my last cycle which hasnt gone away and i have been put on a further 3 months of minocycline. I am now about 4 weeks clean off the gear.

So creatine, glutamine and lots of food it is from now on. Maybe till the summer.

PS. Happy new year to you all

**Jimmy** · 05-01-2005, 06:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jock

I have gained muscle and lost fat on a cutting diet which consisted of about 375g of protein a day around 150g of carbs (60g of which where PWO) and around 140g fat,

a perfect example of a clean bulker mate

winger · 06-01-2005, 02:40 AM

In my opinion a clean bulker does not include gear or drugs.
How could you really know what works when you are not natural?
I have an idea, learn what works for you without drugs and then introduce drugs.

Jock · 07-01-2005, 02:23 PM

I agree winger but in my experience adding drugs makes losing fat and gaining muscle at the same time a million times easier to accomplish.

If a newbie asks me "can I gain muscle and lose fat at the same time?" I will tell them not to bother. This is not because I don't believe it is possible... I have never disputed this, but it takes an extremley good understanding of diet/nutrition & training plus a bucketload of discipline, which lets face it, most newbies do not possess.

I reckon Jimmy hit the nail on the head when he outlined the need to have realistic goals in this thread: http://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/showthrea...ealistic+goals

I've tried losing fat naturally several times, each time with some success but also I had to sacrifice at least a little muscle, this was probably down to limitations in my diet which I'm prepared to admit.

The fact is the next time I cut I will do everything in my power to stop the loss of muscle mass, but to be honest I just don't want to run that risk, I'm probably insecure but if I can lose fat using meds such as ECA/Clen/T3 and gain even a little muscle using a low dose of test then I'm sold!

particleastro · 11-01-2005, 04:28 PM

Hay Jock I agree with you, it is impossible to lose fat and gain muscle at teh same time (under 'normal' circumstances). Depending on which way you look at it, some of us are lucky in that we start of quite thin and lean, and although it takes a lot of hard work and masticating, can gain muscle cleanly, albeit slowly. I have to admit I think I prefer a long slow gain and always looking lean than having to bulk and cut in cycles. And I agree, carbs seem to tast so much better after a couple of months of dieting...

04-01-2005, 05:52 PM	#1 (permalink)
Jimmy Super Moderator Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Forest gym crawley Posts: 4,300	clean bulking So what are the benefits?? I was discussing this idea today with one of my mates and I feel it important to share here. You see, we all gain in the early stages of a diet, which I put down to a regular intake of quality nutrients. When we eat clean, moderate kcals we deplete glycogen slowly until we start to get hungry and thats when we start to eat all meals on the button. Now lets say we wernt dieting for something as important as a show. We could at this point afford to squeeze another quality meal, yes?? I have been using this aproach with a few of the guys I help and it works. My opinion is that too many people bulk on far too many kcals in the first place, leaving them too full to eat the whole meal or indeed miss a meal!! Keep the kcals moderate and well balanced and we start to make every kcal work for us. I see no reason why one cant bulk on quality food AND loose BF, in fact I have proven it with two of my guys!! The problem is will power! When that hungry/week feeling sets in, its hard to eat chicken when mcvities is calling. A way round this is to have a cheat meal every 3 days, which helps curb the cravings and help keep sanity __________________ *To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.* 'Genetics is the science of heredity and variation in living organisms. Inheritance in organisms occurs by means of discrete traits, called genes.' Last edited by Jimmy; 04-01-2005 at 08:48 PM.

04-01-2005, 08:39 PM	#2 (permalink)
robdog Super Moderator Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Home!! Posts: 5,577	Some good points made there mate. Also i was reading what you wrote on another fourm about how some bodybuilders get realy out of shape off season so have to diet so hard when the want to compete they cant take it and stop the diet. __________________ To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. 25% off for UKM members (discount code UKM25)

04-01-2005, 08:49 PM	#3 (permalink)
Jimmy Super Moderator Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Forest gym crawley Posts: 4,300	Yes Rob.....if people were to eat clean they would gain mass and loose BF just as you have!! __________________ *To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.* 'Genetics is the science of heredity and variation in living organisms. Inheritance in organisms occurs by means of discrete traits, called genes.'

05-01-2005, 02:47 PM	#6 (permalink)
Jock LEAGUE LEGEND! Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: UK Posts: 3,020	I think it is possible but only for the very dedicated, the most bf I have ever added during bulking is probably about 1%, only because I ate only quality calories every 2 hours. Sometimes I think people get confused, large amounts of calories are probably the most important factor when trying to bulk, but a lot of people just assume this is the ONLY factor when preparing a bulking diet, and they don't realise that QUALITY of calories consumed will have a large bearing on how much bf they gain. I have gained muscle and lost fat on a cutting diet which consisted of about 375g of protein a day around 150g of carbs (60g of which where PWO) and around 140g fat, having said that I was using Test Prop, Tren, T3, ECA and Clen. Gaining muscle and losing fat is possible but very hard, adding drugs into the equation makes things a hellavalot easier to accomplish, which is probably most people choose to use them. Just my thoughts, Jock __________________ To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

05-01-2005, 03:28 PM	#7 (permalink)
philipebrown Looking Freaky Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: north east Posts: 924	hya gang After starting training again after an excessive xmas on the drink and chocolate i have decided NOT to deit anymore (for the moment). I have realised that I have spent far too long dieting now and what is happening to me is that i am not eating enough to gain muscle but on the flip side i am going out and cheating too much on a weekend that i aint losing any fat either! so i am going to spend most of the early part of the year on a clean bulker, gradually increasing my carbs but sticking to brown rice potatoes and oats. To shock my body back into things, i have started a new routine for a month which consists of nothing but squats, deadlifts and bench press 3 x week while upping my food and keepin it clean! so long as i maintain my bodyfat, i'll be happy so long as i can add some muscle. Unfortunately in one way i am resigned to giving up the gear for at least 3 months as i had a bad acne problem from my last cycle which hasnt gone away and i have been put on a further 3 months of minocycline. I am now about 4 weeks clean off the gear. So creatine, glutamine and lots of food it is from now on. Maybe till the summer. PS. Happy new year to you all __________________ "no, no, side chest franco, not front chest!........ ....and if you don't have it, don't hit it!" Arnold...from the making of pumping iron.

05-01-2005, 09:28 AM	#5 (permalink)
powerU Getting HUGE! Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Derbyshire Posts: 1,140	I find a good method is to prepare meals in advance, then you simply eat what you've prepared, the quantities of which won't be dictated by your hunger.

06-01-2005, 02:40 AM	#9 (permalink)
winger UK-Muscle Male Animal Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Southern California, USA Posts: 10,215 Blog Entries: 1	In my opinion a clean bulker does not include gear or drugs. How could you really know what works when you are not natural? I have an idea, learn what works for you without drugs and then introduce drugs. __________________ To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

07-01-2005, 02:23 PM	#10 (permalink)
Jock LEAGUE LEGEND! Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: UK Posts: 3,020	I agree winger but in my experience adding drugs makes losing fat and gaining muscle at the same time a million times easier to accomplish. If a newbie asks me "can I gain muscle and lose fat at the same time?" I will tell them not to bother. This is not because I don't believe it is possible... I have never disputed this, but it takes an extremley good understanding of diet/nutrition & training plus a bucketload of discipline, which lets face it, most newbies do not possess. I reckon Jimmy hit the nail on the head when he outlined the need to have realistic goals in this thread: http://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/showthrea...ealistic+goals I've tried losing fat naturally several times, each time with some success but also I had to sacrifice at least a little muscle, this was probably down to limitations in my diet which I'm prepared to admit. The fact is the next time I cut I will do everything in my power to stop the loss of muscle mass, but to be honest I just don't want to run that risk, I'm probably insecure but if I can lose fat using meds such as ECA/Clen/T3 and gain even a little muscle using a low dose of test then I'm sold! __________________ To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

11-01-2005, 04:28 PM	#11 (permalink)
particleastro Board Geek Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Egham Posts: 346	Hay Jock I agree with you, it is impossible to lose fat and gain muscle at teh same time (under 'normal' circumstances). Depending on which way you look at it, some of us are lucky in that we start of quite thin and lean, and although it takes a lot of hard work and masticating, can gain muscle cleanly, albeit slowly. I have to admit I think I prefer a long slow gain and always looking lean than having to bulk and cut in cycles. And I agree, carbs seem to tast so much better after a couple of months of dieting... __________________ "I may not make the cover of the Rolling Stone, but at least I know my life's my own..."