quick question an IGF

[BIG-UNC]

been doing abit of reading about this stuff in general

apperently it is very potent being stacked with test

it also says that taking nolva reduces/lowers the levels of our own IGF, so first questio is

would it be more benefitial to not do nolva during PCT and just use clomid with maybe some clen for anti-catabolic purposes obviously as taking the nolva is gonna reduce any production of IGF during this phase

also if you suffer from gyno symptons during a test cycle and your running IGF with it would we be better off not using the nolva to combat this, do any of the AI's reduce the levels of IGF?

i guess my main question is if we do use nolva at any time with IGF would we have to increase the amount of IGF to still get the same gains with no nolva present

ive read this back to myself acouple of times and i think ive put it down correctly for you to understand my question......hope so anyway

[the_gre8t_1ne]

I would still take nolv PCT to be honest, as it may lower IGF Values, but you will be taking it so would not make any difference, thats kinda like doing a test cycle, which lowers and stops test production, but ur not concerned at the time as ur taking so much of it, u get me?

[BIG-UNC]

i get yo mate yeah

but i meant if your not doing any IGF with your pct

you get me? lol

Originally Posted by the_gre8t_1ne

I would still take nolv PCT to be honest, as it may lower IGF Values, but you will be taking it so would not make any difference, thats kinda like doing a test cycle, which lowers and stops test production, but ur not concerned at the time as ur taking so much of it, u get me?

[the_gre8t_1ne]

LOL, i will be next cycle

[BIG-UNC]

if our own IGF and/or test was low then wouldnt we be catabolic? (during pct) < added

is this why people add an anti-catabolic to their pct?

[the_gre8t_1ne]

Originally Posted by BIG-UNC

if our own IGF and/or test was low then wouldnt we be catabolic?

is this why people add an anti-catabolic to their pct?

huh? u mean low during PCT?

[BIG-UNC]

yes mate sorry

Originally Posted by the_gre8t_1ne

huh? u mean low during PCT?

[the_gre8t_1ne]

well the point of PCT is to get natty test levels back to normal, so you do standard PCT protocal to do that, and IGF is good during PCT as it helps increase test levels while maintaining ur gains, with the added benefit of getting leaner so i have been lead to understand

[BIG-UNC]

ok then,put it another way would you get any leaner off the IGF if nolva wasnt in your pct?

[the_gre8t_1ne]

yeah would make no difference

[hackskii]

Leave that nolvadex in the PCT.
Do the clomid and nolvadex together there is good reasons for this.
If you are worried about it at all take some HGH with your PCT, actually HCG, HGH, clomid and nolvadex make a crackin PCT, probably the best.

Yes nolva will lower IGF-1 but your hypothalamus and pituitary glands are shutdown, the object is to get the nuts online first then while the nuts are comming online (this takes the longest) then the pituitary and hypothalmus will be stimulated by nolva and clomid.
Clomid is a agonist and antagonist of estrogen so in theory it is great for firing up the hypothalamus but can supress the pituitary (from what I have read), this is where the nolvadex comes in, it allows this to not happen.

A good PCT should take around 45 days to get all the HPTA rollin good. Without PCT you might take anywhere between 6 to 18 months to recover.

You can take the IGF-1 with the cycle or with PCT.
Thing is with IGF-1 it can cause hyperplasia, where as steroids cause hypertrophy the diffrence is one builds bigger muscles and the other builds more muscles. I dont think I explained that right, but you get the idea.
Hyperplasia=IGF-1
Hypertrophy=steroids

So either way really.
Working out raises all of those test, IGF, GH, so anywhere around 35 to 45 minutes of intense training in the gym makes this happen naturally.

I noticed I thought I got a bit leaner during IGF-1 use, during my PCT.
But just run the clomid and nolvadex as planned.
Nolva actually can improve lipid profile, as you know gear use can hammer your lipid profile so there is some plusses and minuses.

Another thing, testosterone raises IGF-1 and not the other way around. HGH also raises IGF-1 as well.
HGH if taken with HCG can benefit testicular recovery and function making PCT more productive, not only that but put you in positive nitrogen ballance during your pct which is a good thing and some good fat loss which also is a good thing.


So, either way you choose is fine.

[BIG-UNC]

what would be the perfect pct hacksii?

and doses!

[Tinytom]

I never use IGF for PCT.

Whats the point? IGF + Test = massive gains

IGF has about 5 weeks of activity before the receptors shutdown.

I don't see the point of running anything PCT apart from test stimulating drugs and maybe 5iu of insulin PWO.

Your body grows in spurts and so therefore I beleive it's best to stack everything at once, train heavy and eat loads for a short period which will spur your body into new growth.

You cannot grow all year round and I don't see the point of trying to bridge steroid courses with IGF, GH Slin etc. I just accept that I'm going to lose some size between courses and concentrate on thickening my physique with cardio and more reps with a lighter weight.

Have different goals throughout the year and you'll benefit more physique wise.

That being said - I know others get good results from bridging. This is just my opinion.

[John]

and id say it makes sense, your about as good as the board has to offer, so your doing something right Tom.

[the_gre8t_1ne]

Originally Posted by Tinytom

I never use IGF for PCT.

Whats the point? IGF + Test = massive gains

IGF has about 5 weeks of activity before the receptors shutdown.

I don't see the point of running anything PCT apart from test stimulating drugs and maybe 5iu of insulin PWO.

Your body grows in spurts and so therefore I beleive it's best to stack everything at once, train heavy and eat loads for a short period which will spur your body into new growth.

You cannot grow all year round and I don't see the point of trying to bridge steroid courses with IGF, GH Slin etc. I just accept that I'm going to lose some size between courses and concentrate on thickening my physique with cardio and more reps with a lighter weight.

Have different goals throughout the year and you'll benefit more physique wise.

That being said - I know others get good results from bridging. This is just my opinion.

That is sound advise m8, I know you dont beleave in it, but wont things like hgh/slin/igf help in maintaning your gains with the possiblity of getting a little leaner, while thickining your phsyique with less weight and hiher reps? (refering to the hgh/igf)