-S-K-

I'll sum it up, 8 months ago -change of life - learned a lot - 17 st/28% to 13st/10.5% (roughly). - 18 years - 6ft 3 - 183lbs - Lifted properly for 6 months - Never bulked ever, just cut.

Anyway I'll include pics at the bottom of the post but what my goal is, is to pack on muscle mass, im determined and have the willpower so thats not a problem, and im doing whatever it takes really (naturally). Basically I've been told I've got potential due to body size etc. I also have a lot of natural strength so im not a weakling so thats not a problem. Im not skinny and I found it easy to lose fat. I've got a husky build even though it may not look like so from the pics, big chest as well.

My goals are really just to increase muscle mass, pack on the muscle, stronger, and then get leaner and defined. I know the best way is to bulk up but I've never done it before I do have know how on it but need help on the diet wise, that would be appreciated. What supplements, BCAA's, creatine, whey etc. I can train 6 days a week but the times vary on each day usually. I can manage to consume 6-7 meals per day, im not a fussy eater, and as said before I will do what it takes. Like said I want to pack on the muscle but not end up packing on the fat as well, minimize the fat, went through enough years of my life with that. Oh ya, I love lifting .

As a side note, I've looked around a lot of boards but a lot have a lot of noobs tbh. I was looking for some pro advice, I've already went through some threads and some of the members for example UK Muscle (owner of the site?) if thats his display pic is pretty much tanked up lol. So im pretty damn sure getting advice from all you guys here I can't go wrong. But yeah I'll take crits and what people think etc. I've been recommended a lot of bulking diets but so many are complicated, I'd rather just focus my attention on lifting and eating rather than worrying about this and that macros so much, been recommended this:

http://www.cutdietleanmass.com/

Also been recommended a lot more which I've read through but I'd rather get as much info as possible so I know really what im doing, so if you guys could give me infos, pointers, what you did etc that would be appreciated. It's just the diet side of bulking I pretty much get stuck on . Thanks.

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fozyspilgrims

Christ thats a slim waist. What do you lift? Good luck mate i am sure you will get some good advice.

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-S-K-

Thanks. Well my waist is quite small, so luckily I wear jeans/trousers etc roughly on the hips. Got a bit of podge on the front stomach but it's starting to even out, im just thinking in the long run it will be better for me to bulk rather than keep cutting.

Well I've pretty much been losing weight for 8 months, so you can imagine that my strength has dropped, luckily it hasn't dropped much . My bench has always been kind of low and it hasn't moved for obvious reasons but I usually do 85KG+ on 5x5 and 70KG+ on incline bench by 5x5. Squat I have to use the Smith Machine but im at 130KG 5x5 and Deadlift around 140KG 5x5, alough for everything I can lift slightly more but then my form ends up going so I only do what I can fully control.For other things on 5x5, bicep barbell curl 50KG, Skull Crushers 40KG, Lat Pulldown 124KG. Really like I said above I do have a lot of natural strength, pretty much born and bred on quality foods and nutrients, even though I was lazy in my early teens but I've changed that and ready to go. So ya if you guys can help me out it would be really appreciated. Want to get started about the 18th so it gives me time to trial my gym routines and find suitiable weights, get the supps and diet prepared. Cheers.

Bulk1

Hi SK,

I agree how you have started... by shedding the fat 1st... and then bulking! Some people will disagree but getting you fat % around 15% 1st is the way to go before bulking imo...as you will find it far faster and easier to cut again after bulking!! and still looking good whilst in the bulking stage...minimal fat.

Also... I know that counting daily cals to the letter can drive u crazy.... and probably not realistic... just try and get as close as you can.

I know what you mean about bulking without adding unwanted fat (everyone does!! But... you cant not add any fat. (many will tell you you can tho... but its 2 different methods to cut or bulk! If any...it will be VERY slow results without adding some fat) I know its not what you want to hear mate, but to bulk up you need to consume more calories/surplus to your requirements... this is the only way you can grow quickly even with taking any substance known to man to enhance growth.. You can limit how much unwanted fat you will gain tho!

But eating lean foods...(I'm sure u already know this) I may sound boring by saying this... but I only eat for nutrition... I almost never eat for fun. By doing this you'll be eating lean food while still making sure your getting your good fats.

But a Bulk diet in my opinion is not very long term... so its not like your going to put back on 2 stone of fat in this time! I would bulk strictly for say 10 weeks... then go on a cutting diet.. you will lose a bit of muscle whilst cutting but not much and will be back to being lean again easily enough as you wont have a lot of fat to shift say over the next few months cutting...with the fastest results.

Rest a much as you can... you dont want to be doing much cardio.. or over training.. (like you have been used to) why struggle to add more cals to your diet if your going to go and work them off again! I think you'll get your heart working hard enough during your weight training so I wouldn't worry about cardio during bulking.

The main thing I am trying to say is... no matter what anyone tells you... its very very simple.. Energy in verses Energy out.. determines whether u will gain....lose or maintain weight. (I know you were asking more about lean weight gain... but you still need more cals just make sure your eating lean meals and healthy fats)

Dont be scared by seeing your waistline increase an inch or 2.. that will come off quickly! Long term fat that has hung around for years is what takes longer to come off! Short term fat increase will drop off more quickly when your ready...so fret not..



To save me typing ...here's a guide to cals intake..



.................................................. .................................................. ..


For example, lets say you have decided to start your diet to gain weight with a daily caloric intake goal of 2,800 calories and a nutrient ratio percentage of 40-30-30. Your calculations would be:
Protein2,800 x 40%(.40) = 1,120 calories Carbohydrates2,800 x 30%(.30) = 840 calories Fat2,800 x 30%(.30) = 840 caloriesNow you know how many calories to consume from each nutrient. To find the grams necessary for each of these nutrients, refer to the nutrient pages where you learned how many calories were in each gram of each nutrient...
Divide the number of calories needed for each nutrient by that nutrient's caloric content per gram.
For the previous example, perform the calculations as follows:
Protein1,120 / 4 = 280 grams per day Carbohydrates840 / 4 = 210 grams per day Fat840 / 9 = 93.3 grams per day Now, you know exactly how many grams of each of the macronutrients you should shoot for every day. You won't be able to hit these goals exactly, you just want to try and come as close as possible.





.................................................. .................................................. .

As far as the workout... I train heavy and imo... (your bulking ...not shaping!) creatine really is worth trying....and it allows you to lift more weight than usual withought as much fatigue.. some people notice the benifits and some dont. I aim for 12-15 reps.. 3/4 sets.. and usually dont reach 12/15 on the 2nd set... which is training to failure... if you can train to 12/15 every set.. you lifting too light imo.

I use a 3 day split program... 1 min rest between sets.




p.s You have a great base to work from! I think u'll see fast results... specially at the start.

-S-K-

^Alrite thanks for that long informative post. First off I want to say that since im 13 stone roughly, what would be my daily caloric intake for bulking up to pack the muscle on. Really on the grams of protein etc I don't mind going up to however high it is and even over if needed. 10 Weeks of bulking so roughly 2.2 months and how long a cycle of a cut for how long? It's a pain I guess since I wouldn't want to lose muscle but if I did say HIIT and had the diet spot on then im pretty unlikely to catabolize due to the time doing CV work?

For the gym though I'd hit the weights hard and heavy, is there a problem doing it 6 days a week? obviously working body parts different each time?. I'll sort out the training regime after I've nailed the diet on the head as it's the hardest part imo.

Ok so basically for my weight im going to have to find out how many calories I should be taking in a day to make sure I will be gaining weight (hopefully mostly muscle) and having the right amount of nutrients which I can figure out from your example above. Then once I get that sorted I'll try figure out a diet based around that on say 6 meals per day? then for supplements what type of creatine? mono/ethyl? for protein is flavoured fine such as chocolate? I usually get my whey protein from myprotein.co.uk a tub of that, but was thinking of getting Gold standard whey. Any other supplements I should look into getting? such as BCAA's, fat burners etc? Like I said im willing to do what it takes . Cheers.

Bulk1

Just my own opinion but a good place to start is to work out your cal intake...you can start off by counting how many cals your currently consuming and then adding 3-500 each week until your happy your making progress.. (you will need to train too! lol) keep a track.. weigh yourself and measure to check your gains (or not) at the end of each week. Remember the importance or drinking plenty of water.. specially if you give creatine a try.

This forum is a great source of info.. read through the threads and you'll learn a great deal of useful advice on all aspects of training...with diets...training.. and the supplements that will help you.

Whey Protein is a certainty for immediate post workout (yes flavoured whey is fine just go with one that's recommended) ... look for one with plenty of added BCAA's (Like PHD Pharma or Boditronics) as they are the building blocks, you can try Creatine and see how you get on with it as I mentioned before. Any other miracle muscle BB'ing supplements will likely just be burning your cash away.

Its impossible to write everything down .. search the forum and if you cant find what you need.. post up your questions and there are plenty of knowledgeable peeps here to help you out....but it does take time to learn and experiment with what works best for you... everyone is different.

-S-K-

Im currently consuming like 2,000 per day but my diet wasn't really monitored at all I just eat around 3 meals per day with 3 whey protein shakes in skimmed milk and I lost weight from there, sure not the best way to do it properly etc. Should I bump it up to 2,500? or would there really be a problem bumping it up more or would that be to fast for your metabolism to adjust? No problem drinking a lot of water. For the whey with added BCAA's, this will do yeah?:

http://monstersupplements.com/store/...HAKER-CUP.html

This mean I won't have to bother with BCAA tabs? For creatine I've heard good things on BSN's no-xpload, worth it? Cheers.

Bulk1

2000 is really low. The average male maintenance calories level is 2500! let alone with any form or excercise! (if you were cutting... you would drop by approx 250 cals to 2250 for fat loss) aim for 1 - 1.5g of protein per Lb of lean mass...stick with lean meats and whey protein to meet your goals (the Pharma Whey you showed is what I am using at the moment, cookies flavour which is good) dont over use whey protein... get as much from real foods as you can... I only use Whey post w/o....unless I am in a situation I need a quick meal and cant get a real meal... whey suppliment is exactly what it says... a suppliment to real food.

You need to plan 5/6 well planned meals a day... increase your cals by 500 (2500) just to get back to maintenance levels...and adjust by approx 300 cals each week until your making gains.

You need to do some more research as it takes time to learn and understand what your really doing ...timing your meals... and many other things that are important to learn about.. take a few weeks to really understand how everything works.

AussieMarc

mate, No-Xplode is a pre-WO stimulant. contains nothing more than a hell of a lot of caffeine and a few other stimulant products. some people on this forum swear by it but others don't. depends on the person. forget about NO-Xplode until your buying the essentials.

the things i would class as "essential" -

WPI (Whey Protein Isolate)
Creatine
Amino Acids

oh and of course your fish oils in there as well. but these ones are relatively cheap. the other 3 are what will empty the wallet if you use them religiously.

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-S-K-

What creatine do you recommend? but also is creatine worth it? for example I've read up a lot on it and know there is so called dangers of it being hard on the kidneys or liver or causing certain problems? if im gonna get it, really want it to be the best of stuff. Can pick up Amino Acids from here pretty cheap:

http://www.myprotein.co.uk/bulk-powders/amino-acids/

But what do you recommend, if I get the PHD whey then it already contains levels of BCAA's. And ok I will increase my calorie intake to 2,500 and increase slightly each week till I start noticing gains or my weight increasing. On the whole if im eating 6 or so meals a day to keep the metabolism fast, for protein shakes should I keep them for pre and post workout? also is it worth buying some casein for before bed to give a slow continuous supply of protein to muscles? Cheers.

TH&S

I'd certainly be interested in seeing some of these lifts mate if you have time to video them. They are very impressive.

Pulling 150% of your bodyweight on the lat pulldown is no mean feat - as is curling 60% of your bodyweight

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D: 220 | B: 110 | S: 170 | Target: 550

TH&S

Where did the lose skin go from the 4st of weight loss mate?

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D: 220 | B: 110 | S: 170 | Target: 550

jonesy2411

yeah man those lifts are very impressive the lat pull down especially thats some heavy s**t, get some videos going if you can mate!

-S-K-

Tbh, the curl's I don't find impossible, I can do them with very good form. The lat pulldown I also use the v-type bar which also involves the biceps alough I really should stick to using the straight bar with a wide grip, but I'll try get some videos up.

-S-K-

You see the picture of my front, the area where the belly button is pretty much the lower abdomen is the affected area of loose skin. It doesn't look to bad because of how im standing but it does have looseness there and I can only hope it tightens itself up which it should due to my age and the skin should regain it's elascisity.

Their is marks around that area as well but thats the stretch marks, have quite a few of them.