Atkins advice please - Page 2 - UK-Muscle Body Building Community

ONE SMART COOKIE · 03-02-2005, 02:18 PM

Quote:

I'm with Pscarb I'm Anti-Atkins, I think it's an awful diet and before someone harps on about eskimoes I don't see many of them on bodybuilding stages

Probably because they have got more sense,lmao

Biker · 03-02-2005, 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ONE SMART COOKIE

Probably because they have got more sense,lmao

lol

**Pscarb** · 03-02-2005, 03:46 PM

Thanks Biker i knew someone would be padantic about what i said....

cookie ...
the old timers built muscle like many of us do now (with or without AAS/Supplements) but my comment was not about building muscle it was about building muscle whilst losing fat on a low carb diet of 20>g carbs per day....

i have said it before in this thread and i will say it again for those who just like to argue if it was possible to INCREASE muscle size whilst LOSING fat then every Competing Bodybuilder on the planet would gain the most muscle when dieting for a show and then there would be no reason for an "OFFSEASON".....

when you lose weight (Fat or Water) you will look more muscular that is a fact i have pics of me 1 week from my last show that shows me looking more muscular than before i dieted but i was 28lbs lighter.......i was not more muscular i was more defined there is a massive diffrence......

Pete the only way to tell if you have gained muscle but lost fat is by BF% for example if at the begining of the diet you weighed 200lbs at 10%BF and at the end you weighed 200lbs @ 5%bf that is when you can honestly say you have gained muscle and lost BF .........now if anybody can show me proof that they dieted using the Atkins or a low carb diet and stayed at the same weight throughout and lowered their BF% i would love to see it......

**robdog** · 03-02-2005, 04:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pscarb

when you lose weight (Fat or Water) you will look more muscular that is a fact i have pics of me 1 week from my last show that shows me looking more muscular than before i dieted but i was 28lbs lighter.......i was not more muscular i was more defined there is a massive diffrence......

......

My training partner is a prime example of this. he look alot bigger than he ever has when infact he is about a stone if not more lighter than he was previously.

Its all an illusion imo. Someone i respect once told me its not possible to gain muscle without gaining on the scales and vise verca for loosing fat and loosing on the scales.

Im not a fan of an all out Atkins diet but a good low carb diet isnt to bad for shedding fat.

**robdog** · 03-02-2005, 04:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Biker

I'm with Pscarb I'm Anti-Atkins, I think it's an awful diet and before someone harps on about eskimoes I don't see many of them on bodybuilding stages

lowering carbs and using better carbs is much better than taking no (well almost) carbs.

LMFAO at the Eskimoes!!!

Well not them in particular but that comment was funny.

winger · 03-02-2005, 05:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pscarb

like i said before you if you could ADD muscle(not retain muscle) and lose bodyfat at the same time on a restricted carb diet then when most BB's diet for shows they would gain muscle but in fact most lose a small amount over their dieting period...

i do agree though that the key to losing weight is to be smart with the carbs you choose..

First off I said the Atkins diet rocks. I am not on an Atkins diet.
I swithched the sh1t carbs for the good carbs and limiting the carbs by doing that.

**Pscarb** · 03-02-2005, 05:26 PM

in the quote you have taken where does it mention that i have said you have made that statement???
and you are taking this personelly why???

ONE SMART COOKIE · 03-02-2005, 05:49 PM

pscarb

They did gain muscle and "maintain" relativley low levels of bf whilst on low carbs granted they werent as ripped as todays monsters but ripper was a thing back then that you actually got marked down for,but they were a heck of a lot leaner than a lot of bbers you see nowadays in the offseason

As for your use of the term of season and bulking/gaining the original use of the term "offseason" refered to being "off gear" after the competitive season and in a lot of cases loosing weight,just look at old pics of arnold franco etal and see how much they used to loose,also mike christian and gary strydom were also great fans of loosing weight in the "off season" and eating their way back upto competitive weight hence its ability to keep the skin tight.

At the end of the day each to his own.

**hackskii** · 03-02-2005, 05:53 PM

I dont think he is taking it perosnally.
I think he is defending the keto approach for losing bodyfat and maintaining lean muscle mass.

Even ChefX book is lower in carbs and higher in fat than almost every other diet that I have seen for bodybuilding.
Does it work?........Ask Jimmy.

All bodybuilders drop carbs to diet down. They also drop fats too and this is where I think many bodybuilders make there mistake.

You say that you cant gain lean muscle mass without carbs, I say this statement is wrong.
The body needs fuel, this can come from many diffrent sources including protein which is what most of the muscle is made of. Like walking around canabolizing your own meat.

Fuel can come from FFA and fats.
Once the body switches from carbs for fuel to fat for fuel there is significant fat loss.
I have read many studies that high fat, low carb diets spare lean muscle mass better than other dieting approaches.

If you want the studies, I have no problem placing them in this thread but it will make for a long read. Dates, Dr's and percent of fat loss. All clinical studies.

I do think you can gain lean muscle mass on a high fat, low carb diet but it wont be as drastic.

When taking in protein and fats some does get converted into glycogen so you arnt totally void of carbs even when not taking them in.

I dont think he was taking it personal though PScarb, its not an arguement where one has to be right or wrong but what works for one does not work for all. The Ketogenic approcah works for some but not all.
So to say something is wrong this is infact wrong when you are talking in a generalized statement that encompases all.

**robdog** · 03-02-2005, 06:03 PM

I think you are all wrong. The kebab diet is the way to go!!!!!!

Dan Duchaines BodyOpus diet is a combination of 5 days keto followed by 2 days carb up so you get the best of both worlds. Even on this diet though although minimal Duchaine does say some muscle loss is inevitable even though it is a small amount.

There is no right or wrong way but at the end of the day as long as we reach our goals i aint bothered how anyone does it as long as i can have my cheat meals lmao!!!

Infact im real hungry today so i feel a special kebab coming on as when i start Diatia im gonna have to stick to it to the letter.

**hackskii** · 03-02-2005, 06:07 PM

Yah Baby!!!!

...................Right!!! ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^;)

ONE SMART COOKIE · 03-02-2005, 06:14 PM

Yeah rod but the bodyopus diet was altered to 5 low carb 2 high carb because duchaine realised most if not all bbers could follow his original diet which was over 10 days not 7 like in bodyopus.

me personelly i like higher fat diets cos they taste better,lmao,man who wants to eat fu5king rice and tuna or baked spud and chicken breast when you can have steak and a double cream sauce.

Make no wonder fat people are always happy,they eat all the best tasting food,roflmao

winger · 03-02-2005, 06:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pscarb

in the quote you have taken where does it mention that i have said you have made that statement???
and you are taking this personelly why???

Not personal mate.

If I have rubbed you wrong in any way I appologise. ;)

**robdog** · 03-02-2005, 07:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by winger

Not personal mate.

If I have rubbed you wrong in any way I appologise. ;)

Winger why would you be rubbing Pscarb?????

winger · 03-02-2005, 08:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by robdog

Winger why would you be rubbing Pscarb?????

I like short big guys.

03-02-2005, 05:26 PM	#22 (permalink)
Pscarb UK-Muscle Moderator and NABBA Champion Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 10,963	in the quote you have taken where does it mention that i have said you have made that statement??? and you are taking this personelly why??? Last edited by Pscarb; 03-02-2005 at 05:35 PM.

03-02-2005, 06:07 PM	#26 (permalink)
hackskii UK-Muscle Moderator Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Sunny Southern California U.S.A. Posts: 24,337	Yah Baby!!!!...................Right!!! ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^;)

03-02-2005, 03:46 PM	#18 (permalink)
Pscarb UK-Muscle Moderator and NABBA Champion Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 10,963	Thanks Biker i knew someone would be padantic about what i said.... cookie ... the old timers built muscle like many of us do now (with or without AAS/Supplements) but my comment was not about building muscle it was about building muscle whilst losing fat on a low carb diet of 20>g carbs per day.... i have said it before in this thread and i will say it again for those who just like to argue if it was possible to INCREASE muscle size whilst LOSING fat then every Competing Bodybuilder on the planet would gain the most muscle when dieting for a show and then there would be no reason for an "OFFSEASON"..... when you lose weight (Fat or Water) you will look more muscular that is a fact i have pics of me 1 week from my last show that shows me looking more muscular than before i dieted but i was 28lbs lighter.......i was not more muscular i was more defined there is a massive diffrence...... Pete the only way to tell if you have gained muscle but lost fat is by BF% for example if at the begining of the diet you weighed 200lbs at 10%BF and at the end you weighed 200lbs @ 5%bf that is when you can honestly say you have gained muscle and lost BF .........now if anybody can show me proof that they dieted using the Atkins or a low carb diet and stayed at the same weight throughout and lowered their BF% i would love to see it......

03-02-2005, 05:49 PM	#23 (permalink)
ONE SMART COOKIE cerca trova Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 2,020	pscarb They did gain muscle and "maintain" relativley low levels of bf whilst on low carbs granted they werent as ripped as todays monsters but ripper was a thing back then that you actually got marked down for,but they were a heck of a lot leaner than a lot of bbers you see nowadays in the offseason As for your use of the term of season and bulking/gaining the original use of the term "offseason" refered to being "off gear" after the competitive season and in a lot of cases loosing weight,just look at old pics of arnold franco etal and see how much they used to loose,also mike christian and gary strydom were also great fans of loosing weight in the "off season" and eating their way back upto competitive weight hence its ability to keep the skin tight. At the end of the day each to his own.

03-02-2005, 05:53 PM	#24 (permalink)
hackskii UK-Muscle Moderator Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Sunny Southern California U.S.A. Posts: 24,337	I dont think he is taking it perosnally. I think he is defending the keto approach for losing bodyfat and maintaining lean muscle mass. Even ChefX book is lower in carbs and higher in fat than almost every other diet that I have seen for bodybuilding. Does it work?........Ask Jimmy. All bodybuilders drop carbs to diet down. They also drop fats too and this is where I think many bodybuilders make there mistake. You say that you cant gain lean muscle mass without carbs, I say this statement is wrong. The body needs fuel, this can come from many diffrent sources including protein which is what most of the muscle is made of. Like walking around canabolizing your own meat. Fuel can come from FFA and fats. Once the body switches from carbs for fuel to fat for fuel there is significant fat loss. I have read many studies that high fat, low carb diets spare lean muscle mass better than other dieting approaches. If you want the studies, I have no problem placing them in this thread but it will make for a long read. Dates, Dr's and percent of fat loss. All clinical studies. I do think you can gain lean muscle mass on a high fat, low carb diet but it wont be as drastic. When taking in protein and fats some does get converted into glycogen so you arnt totally void of carbs even when not taking them in. I dont think he was taking it personal though PScarb, its not an arguement where one has to be right or wrong but what works for one does not work for all. The Ketogenic approcah works for some but not all. So to say something is wrong this is infact wrong when you are talking in a generalized statement that encompases all.

03-02-2005, 06:03 PM	#25 (permalink)
robdog UK-Muscle Moderator Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Home!! Posts: 5,813	I think you are all wrong. The kebab diet is the way to go!!!!!! Dan Duchaines BodyOpus diet is a combination of 5 days keto followed by 2 days carb up so you get the best of both worlds. Even on this diet though although minimal Duchaine does say some muscle loss is inevitable even though it is a small amount. There is no right or wrong way but at the end of the day as long as we reach our goals i aint bothered how anyone does it as long as i can have my cheat meals lmao!!! Infact im real hungry today so i feel a special kebab coming on as when i start Diatia im gonna have to stick to it to the letter.

03-02-2005, 06:14 PM	#27 (permalink)
ONE SMART COOKIE cerca trova Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 2,020	Yeah rod but the bodyopus diet was altered to 5 low carb 2 high carb because duchaine realised most if not all bbers could follow his original diet which was over 10 days not 7 like in bodyopus. me personelly i like higher fat diets cos they taste better,lmao,man who wants to eat fu5king rice and tuna or baked spud and chicken breast when you can have steak and a double cream sauce. Make no wonder fat people are always happy,they eat all the best tasting food,roflmao