CARDIO AT NIGHT - Page 3 - UK-Muscle Body Building Community

**Jimmy** · 21-01-2005, 04:35 PM

there is no need to hammer it tyson

also, keep the seat high which will take the pain off the quads

**Pscarb** · 21-01-2005, 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by turbo

I wouldnt do cardio just after my workout as im so knackered by then i just wouldnt have the energy or strength to do any cardio. As a result i always try to do my cardio on non-weights days to ensure i have maximum energy for my workout and give me change to recover fully from my cardio session.!

you are knackered just after your workout because you have used all of your available energy lifting the weights so when you do the Cardio the only energy really that is going to fuel your Cardio is your fat stores just because you have no energy doesnt mean it isnt a good time to do cardio....

Quote:

Originally Posted by turbo

The "body only burns fat after 20mins of cardio" is something ive heard quite a few times and may well be scientifically proven. But, in practise ive not found this. If i only do cardio for 20mins it certainly will burn loads of fat off me!!! I think its more linked to how hard you do the cardio. If your only going to mince along at a slow pace then after 30mins its not going to have much of an effect, but if your running like your a rapist on the run, then i think 30mins will nearly kill you and certainly start shifting that fat!

it has been proven many times...if the fat falls of you after only doing 20min of cardio that is great but for long term fat burning it is better to walk at a steady pace of 3.5-4mph on a incline this taps into your fat cells much more effeciantly than running like an idiot for 20mins(the more you sweat does not determine how much fat you lose as some guys sweat more than others)..doing cardio between 65%-70% of your max heart rate burns more fat than going full out at Max heart rate for 20min....

but what you have to understand what works for you does not mean it will work for others for you to only do 20min cardio and the fat falls off of you i would say you have a fast metabolism....

also doing cardio on non training days means that you never get a break from training(weights/cardio)and you might fall into the overtraining syndrome....

turbo · 21-01-2005, 05:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pscarb

you are knackered just after your workout because you have used all of your available energy lifting the weights so when you do the Cardio the only energy really that is going to fuel your Cardio is your fat stores just because you have no energy doesnt mean it isnt a good time to do cardio....

it has been proven many times...if the fat falls of you after only doing 20min of cardio that is great but for long term fat burning it is better to walk at a steady pace of 3.5-4mph on a incline this taps into your fat cells much more effeciantly than running like an idiot for 20mins(the more you sweat does not determine how much fat you lose as some guys sweat more than others)..doing cardio between 65%-70% of your max heart rate burns more fat than going full out at Max heart rate for 20min....

but what you have to understand what works for you does not mean it will work for others for you to only do 20min cardio and the fat falls off of you i would say you have a fast metabolism....

also doing cardio on non training days means that you never get a break from training(weights/cardio)and you might fall into the overtraining syndrome....

So what about the idea that you need to have a carbs/protien drink within 30mins of finishing your training. Surely if i do cardio after my weights i`ll miss that window of opportunity. Not only that, i`ll be so knackered anyway my half hearted attempt at cardio would risk me injuring myself?

With regards to overtraining. Surely as long as your not hitting the same muscle groups more than twice a week and your diet is good you wont be over training? For example, i have a 3 day split and do cardio 2 mornings on my non weight days. That means i get 2 whole days off to recover. Also, for example, if im having a jog on a tuesday morning, im not hitting the weights until wednesday evening, giving me more than a whole day between them, which in my opinion is enough time to recover.

I think the "but what you have to understand what works for you does not mean it will work for others" is the key thing here. As always, id suggest trying different things and seeing what works for you.

Another suggestion to try is HIIT cardio, thats also very effective.

SportDr · 21-01-2005, 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pscarb

it has been proven many times...if the fat falls of you after only doing 20min of cardio that is great but for long term fat burning it is better to walk at a steady pace of 3.5-4mph on a incline this taps into your fat cells much more effeciantly than running like an idiot for 20mins(the more you sweat does not determine how much fat you lose as some guys sweat more than others)..doing cardio between 65%-70% of your max heart rate burns more fat than going full out at Max heart rate for 20min....

but what you have to understand what works for you does not mean it will work for others for you to only do 20min cardio and the fat falls off of you i would say you have a fast metabolism....

also doing cardio on non training days means that you never get a break from training(weights/cardio)and you might fall into the overtraining syndrome....

What Pscarb said. Additionally:

What percentage of calories used comes from something called respiratory exchange ratio (RER).
RER is the volume of Co2 produced divided by the volume of O2 consumed. As you work harder, your oxygen demand increases until your oxidative metabolism can no longer supply your muscles with enough to function, they then become anearobic and work without oxygen present. At this point the RER is high so 100% of energy comes from carbohydrate. At low intensity (as in walking) RER is low so almost 100% of energy will come from fat.

Thing is, when you work at a lower intensity you have to work for longer or regardless of the fact you utilised only fat as an energy source you will have used less calories. THe recommendation is to walk for at least 30 minutes preferably 45-hour for any benefit.

A 20 minute run may burn only carbs, but it will burn many more calories than the equivalent at a walking pace.

HTH

SD

**Pscarb** · 21-01-2005, 05:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by turbo

So what about the idea that you need to have a carbs/protien drink within 30mins of finishing your training. Surely if i do cardio after my weights i`ll miss that window of opportunity. Not only that, i`ll be so knackered anyway my half hearted attempt at cardio would risk me injuring myself?

you need the drink when you have totally finished your workout to help with recovery see as you will be incorperating some muscle groups when performing cardio then you have not stopped training so you have your Drink after your cardio..
as for being knackered and doing a half assed attempt if you want to lose weight then you should have the focus and determination to do the cardio.....

Quote:

Originally Posted by turbo

With regards to overtraining. Surely as long as your not hitting the same muscle groups more than twice a week and your diet is good you wont be over training? For example, i have a 3 day split and do cardio 2 mornings on my non weight days. That means i get 2 whole days off to recover. Also, for example, if im having a jog on a tuesday morning, im not hitting the weights until wednesday evening, giving me more than a whole day between them, which in my opinion is enough time to recover.

if you are training Mon\Wed\Fri then you recover when you are resting and that is when you grow but if on your rest days you do cardio at such a pace that you are shattered then you are not resting therfore their is a chance you could go into overtraining i am not saying it is a certainty i am saying it is a possability and should be mentioned.

turbo · 21-01-2005, 05:35 PM

Interesting stuff. So if your having a run on an empty stomach first thing in the morning like myself, where does it get the carbs from?

turbo · 21-01-2005, 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pscarb

you need the drink when you have totally finished your workout to help with recovery see as you will be incorperating some muscle groups when performing cardio then you have not stopped training so you have your Drink after your cardio..
as for being knackered and doing a half assed attempt if you want to lose weight then you should have the focus and determination to do the cardio.....

if you are training Mon\Wed\Fri then you recover when you are resting and that is when you grow but if on your rest days you do cardio at such a pace that you are shattered then you are not resting therfore their is a chance you could go into overtraining i am not saying it is a certainty i am saying it is a possability and should be mentioned.

Surely its better to do the cardio though when you are more focus`d and are less worn out? I guess it depends on what you are trying to achieve. I know plenty of people who if they are having a weights workout will not push themselves quite as hard if they know they have a cardio session left to do after they finish the weights. Therefore their weights session will be less intensive - which is probably acceptable if the only aim is to loose fat and not build muscle.

With regards to overtraining, surely again its a timing thing. As i said, if im having a cardio session for 30mins on a tuesday morning, then resting all day tuesday & all day wednesday before having a weights workout wednesday evening then its not really overtraining for me. But, i agree its a possibility for some. - just as the possibilty of doing the cardio on a non-weights day will work for some people better than doing it straight after a workout.

All good points though, and all of these are things the original poster needs to think about and try before deciding which is the best for them / their lifestyle.

**Pscarb** · 21-01-2005, 08:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by turbo

Interesting stuff. So if your having a run on an empty stomach first thing in the morning like myself, where does it get the carbs from?

your missing the point mate for most doing cardio in the morning or at anytime for that matter is to burn Cals and ultimatly burn Fat if you aint got any Carbs then the energy your body produces will come from fat however the 20min minimum still applies as your body always has some carbs stored.....

as for guys who take it easy weight training so they can complete their cardio are idiots....whe i diet for a show and i am staying in a hotel then my cardio is done after a workout and beleive me when i work out it is always 100% does that make the cardio harder hell ya!!! but where is the fun if it is easy......;)

winger · 21-01-2005, 11:10 PM

Nice thread. Pscarb wouldn't cardio after a workout further deplete the glycogen and nitrogen storage so needed to rebuild? I understand that cardio after a workout puts you that much closer to the fat burning stage, but I want as much as I can get out of my workout. So I eat right after I train.
If doing cardio after I train and then I eat, am I still going to be in the fat burn stage for 3 times my minutes?
Do you see the peradox?

**hackskii** · 21-01-2005, 11:17 PM

Well if it takes about 30 minutes to tap in to burning fat instead of carbs then It would make sence to workout first then do cardio second.
Would you not slip into the fat burning stage faster for your cardio?
Also if it was between 65%-70% of your max heart rate for cardio that would not kill you after a workout with weights.
So if you lifted for 40 minutes and then did cardio for 20-30 minutes would not that be mostly fat burning?

Ive always read that after a resting fast (sleep) doing cardio burns the most amount of fat.
Also test levels are highest and cortisol is lowest early in the morning.

If you cant do that then cardio after weights taps into fat burning quicker.

But on a good diet, I got away from doing cardio all together and did only weights and lost alot of fat.

**big** · 21-01-2005, 11:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hackskii

So if you lifted for 40 minutes and then did cardio for 20-30 minutes would not that be mostly fat burning?

Yes, that would seem logical.

However, I know that after lifting with intensity for 40 minutes, there's no way in hell I can do 20-30 mins of cardio!

Also, I wonder if doing the cardio after lifting would actually really be burning more fat than doing it first thing in the morning, or would it just be hampering your ability to recover from your weights session? I would have to lean towards the latter personally.

I tend to do extremely low intensity cardio (walking) most days for about 45 minutes, at a completely different time to lifting. I find this gives a nice boost to my metabolism, plus it's probably quite good for my heart.

winger · 21-01-2005, 11:22 PM

Ok then, if I dont take in carbs and my body is using ketones for fuel, and I do cardio now what? Do I instantly go into fat burn?

**hackskii** · 21-01-2005, 11:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by winger

Ok then, if I dont take in carbs and my body is using ketones for fuel, and I do cardio now what? Do I instantly go into fat burn?

Some of the protein you eat will convert to carbs so you will burn some carbs but not alot because there wont be many available.
You would either burn ketones or free fatty acids.

winger · 21-01-2005, 11:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by big

I tend to do extremely low intensity cardio (walking) most days for about 45 minutes, at a completely different time to lifting. I find this gives a nice boost to my metabolism, plus it's probably quite good for my heart.

I do too. I train at lunch and do cardio after work. Well for the last 2 1/2 weeks.

When I started back doing cardio, my poopoo's were better. Ok I know to much info, but it is true. I think the body just works better. Infact I think the body was made to move and not be so sedentary.

**Pscarb** · 21-01-2005, 11:45 PM

ok the main point for Cardio is to burn fat(although i am sure someone will come up with a diffrent reason....lol) i refer bact to my first post on this thread the best time (and it has been proven many times and no i don't have the studies)to do cardio to burn fat is first thing in the morning...
but if you cannot do this then the next best time is after training now the 30-45min Window of oppertunity you have all spoken about is started when all activity of muscle fibers has stopped otherwise if you train bi's before chest does that mean you miss out on the rebuilding of the biceps....
it takes alot of muscle fibers to do cardio even at a walking pace of 3mph which should the min....so once you have finished your cardio then take your drink and you will still be within the "Window"...

as for being able to do cardio after you train because you have no energy PLEASE!!!!! when i diet for a show i train with 100% intensity and then do 45min cardio at 4mph all on 50g of carbs if you aint got the focus to do it you won't succeed.....

21-01-2005, 04:35 PM	#31 (permalink)
Jimmy UK-Muscle Moderator Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Forest gym crawley Posts: 4,489	there is no need to hammer it tyson also, keep the seat high which will take the pain off the quads

21-01-2005, 05:35 PM	#36 (permalink)
turbo Getting HUGE! Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 1,123	Interesting stuff. So if your having a run on an empty stomach first thing in the morning like myself, where does it get the carbs from?

21-01-2005, 11:10 PM	#39 (permalink)
winger UK-Muscle Male Animal Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Southern California, USA Posts: 10,402 Blog Entries: 1	Nice thread. Pscarb wouldn't cardio after a workout further deplete the glycogen and nitrogen storage so needed to rebuild? I understand that cardio after a workout puts you that much closer to the fat burning stage, but I want as much as I can get out of my workout. So I eat right after I train. If doing cardio after I train and then I eat, am I still going to be in the fat burn stage for 3 times my minutes? Do you see the peradox?

21-01-2005, 11:17 PM	#40 (permalink)
hackskii UK-Muscle Moderator Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Sunny Southern California U.S.A. Posts: 24,337	Well if it takes about 30 minutes to tap in to burning fat instead of carbs then It would make sence to workout first then do cardio second. Would you not slip into the fat burning stage faster for your cardio? Also if it was between 65%-70% of your max heart rate for cardio that would not kill you after a workout with weights. So if you lifted for 40 minutes and then did cardio for 20-30 minutes would not that be mostly fat burning? Ive always read that after a resting fast (sleep) doing cardio burns the most amount of fat. Also test levels are highest and cortisol is lowest early in the morning. If you cant do that then cardio after weights taps into fat burning quicker. But on a good diet, I got away from doing cardio all together and did only weights and lost alot of fat.

21-01-2005, 11:22 PM	#42 (permalink)
winger UK-Muscle Male Animal Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Southern California, USA Posts: 10,402 Blog Entries: 1	Ok then, if I dont take in carbs and my body is using ketones for fuel, and I do cardio now what? Do I instantly go into fat burn?

21-01-2005, 11:45 PM	#45 (permalink)
Pscarb UK-Muscle Moderator and NABBA Champion Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 10,963	ok the main point for Cardio is to burn fat(although i am sure someone will come up with a diffrent reason....lol) i refer bact to my first post on this thread the best time (and it has been proven many times and no i don't have the studies)to do cardio to burn fat is first thing in the morning... but if you cannot do this then the next best time is after training now the 30-45min Window of oppertunity you have all spoken about is started when all activity of muscle fibers has stopped otherwise if you train bi's before chest does that mean you miss out on the rebuilding of the biceps.... it takes alot of muscle fibers to do cardio even at a walking pace of 3mph which should the min....so once you have finished your cardio then take your drink and you will still be within the "Window"... as for being able to do cardio after you train because you have no energy PLEASE!!!!! when i diet for a show i train with 100% intensity and then do 45min cardio at 4mph all on 50g of carbs if you aint got the focus to do it you won't succeed.....