Keto vs Low cal diet - UK-Muscle Body Building Community

jas uk · 06-01-2005, 05:36 PM

Which do you use and why?I have tried reducing cals but have heard that the keto diets have instant loss mainly due to water but still its pounds a week,is this true?
cheers
jas

**hackskii** · 06-01-2005, 05:55 PM

Well, it really depends on the person.
Some lose really well on the Ketogenic diets and some dont.

They only way to know for sure is to try it out.
My favorite diet is the Zone (which is not really a diet but a way of eating counting your macronutrients).
This is based on the 40/30/30 which is 40% carbs, 30% fats and protein for total calories.
Based on eating between 5-7 meals a day not taking in over 500 cals max in a meal.

Now, I have done Atkins too and this works well for me too. Im on this right now.
Atkins or ketogenic diets are good for people that retain water and actually good for type2 diabetes and for people who suffer from epelipsy.

Many diets work and what works for one does not work for all. Best thing to do is make a eating plan and stick with it for about a month. If it does not work the try another approach.

But always exercise while dieting as this will maintain lean muscle mass and aid in fat loss.
Keep the protein about 150 grams a day to help keep lean muscle mass.
Drink lots of water.
Eat within 30 minutes apon awakening in the morning.
Never go longer than 5 hrs without eating.

**big** · 06-01-2005, 07:15 PM

Experiment. What works for me might not work for you. I tried keto twice and did horribly both times. Other people have great results from it.

For me the ideal diet is extremely high protein and relatively low carb. I find that my metabolism has increased greatly from eating far more protein.

**Pscarb** · 08-01-2005, 06:28 PM

agreed...

a high protein low carb and low to medium fat(EFA's) diet works for me in general but when i diet for shows i drop the Carbs to less than 50g per day and watch the fat just fall off...well something like that...

jas uk · 10-01-2005, 11:42 AM

thanks for replies guys

Gridlock · 10-01-2005, 03:10 PM

At the end of the day every diet works by reducing calories, keto diets work because you lose the calories from the carbohydrates and in diets like atkins you their are certain mechanisms that reduce your hunger/cravings. If you count the calories on an "eat all you like" diet you will find that you are eating less an that is why you are losing weight.

Mens fitness magazine did and interesting article recently where to prove the above point they made a diet where you can eat as much as you like of any food that begins with an M or an F but nothing else. the people doing it automatically cut their calorie intake to about 1350cals a day just because they were restricted in their choices.

I think the key thing with a diet is that It is comfortable enough to stick with (there is no point in following a really strict diet if it makes you ill or deprives you so much that you crack on the fourth day and have a curry blow out!)

Also I tend to cycle different diets doing each for 1-2 months then trying a different one - this not only stops me from getting bored but also you can shock the body by constantly shaking things up - after too long on any diet your body gets used to it and it stops working well.

winger · 10-01-2005, 03:47 PM

Keto diets all the way, unless your one of the rare ones that eats carbs and your insulin dosn't spike. For me, I eat to big of meal or eat to many carbs, blood sugar gets elevated and that spikes insulin and then you store fat. Its all about insulin, expecially for 25% of us.
Now if you get into ketosis you will loose more fat than any diet there is.

To get into ketosis you can not consume more than 20 grams of carbs a day. If you still cant get into ketosis then you need to up the fat.
Restricting calories only slows down the metabolism and you dont want that. You will loose at first and hit a major platou and soon put it all back on.

**hackskii** · 10-01-2005, 05:34 PM

Cutting more than 500 cals a day can slow down the metabolism as much as 15-35%
When you go off the diet with a slow metabolism then you will gain weight till the metabolism speeds back up resulting is weight gain.

Everyone is diffrent so no approach will suit all. As said above trial and error and you will have it nailed.

Gridlock · 11-01-2005, 12:02 PM

^^^bump^^^^

There are two things about dieting that make it about 10 times harder,

1)what hackski said - as soon as you cut calories your metabolism slows down!
2)Your body will burn muscle as well as fat!

another thing is when you have alot to lose like me 2lbs a week loss, which is supposedly the healthiest range, is just soul destroying!

Gridlock · 11-01-2005, 12:05 PM

when people say that keto/atkins diets went badly for them, do they mean they didn't lose weight, the diet is to hard to stick to or the side effects were too bad to cope with?

winger · 11-01-2005, 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gridlock

when people say that keto/atkins diets went badly for them, do they mean they didn't lose weight, the diet is to hard to stick to or the side effects were too bad to cope with?

I think they are not used to cutting carbs. If the diet is done right you can eat anything you want, except carbs. Big omlete for breakfast with bacon. It is the bomb in my opinion.

jas uk · 11-01-2005, 11:03 PM

today had
2 egg 2bacon
2eggs 50g ham 100g chicken 50g cheese little tomatoe /cucumber
3 egg 200g mackerel
1 egg 50g cheese
could of ate more

**hackskii** · 12-01-2005, 01:20 AM

Well, it is only restricted for carbs.
Keto is good if you can do it and loose.
Modified diets are ok if keto diets are not for you.
All diets restrict carbs.....................Hmmmmmmmm
The best diet I have ever seen is the Zone Diet by Barry Sears.
ChefX mimics this diet and this diet has been around sinse 1996.

winger · 12-01-2005, 02:51 AM

I had a typo in there and I changed it.

If the diet is done right you can eat anything you want, except high glycimic spinking carbs.
High fiber green veggies, packed with nutrients and berries as many as you can eat.

**big** · 12-01-2005, 06:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gridlock

when people say that keto/atkins diets went badly for them, do they mean they didn't lose weight, the diet is to hard to stick to or the side effects were too bad to cope with?

I lost weight fine. The side effects were fine. The diet was extremely easy to stick to. But I lost a LOT of strength. I was getting weaker each session. I'm pretty sure I ended up in a very catabolic state. The weight I lost was both fat and lean mass.

Unless you're either extremely huge or are lowering your bodyfat below 8%, you should not lose any strength or lean mass on a cutting diet. I fall into neither of those categories, yet I lost plenty of strength and mass on ketosis (and I WAS in ketosis according to the ketostix).

I now cut with extremely high protein, moderate fats and timed carbs. This, combined with lots of low intensity cardio works for me.

I appreciate that ketosis works for a lot of people, but I tried it twice, and lost strength and mass both times (I admit that fat loss happened too of course). That should NOT happen to a 220lb guy on any cutting diet... Screw that!

06-01-2005, 05:36 PM	#1 (permalink)
jas uk Newbie Trainer Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 87	Keto vs Low cal diet Which do you use and why?I have tried reducing cals but have heard that the keto diets have instant loss mainly due to water but still its pounds a week,is this true? cheers jas

06-01-2005, 05:55 PM	#2 (permalink)
hackskii UK-Muscle Moderator Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Sunny Southern California U.S.A. Posts: 23,714	Well, it really depends on the person. Some lose really well on the Ketogenic diets and some dont. They only way to know for sure is to try it out. My favorite diet is the Zone (which is not really a diet but a way of eating counting your macronutrients). This is based on the 40/30/30 which is 40% carbs, 30% fats and protein for total calories. Based on eating between 5-7 meals a day not taking in over 500 cals max in a meal. Now, I have done Atkins too and this works well for me too. Im on this right now. Atkins or ketogenic diets are good for people that retain water and actually good for type2 diabetes and for people who suffer from epelipsy. Many diets work and what works for one does not work for all. Best thing to do is make a eating plan and stick with it for about a month. If it does not work the try another approach. But always exercise while dieting as this will maintain lean muscle mass and aid in fat loss. Keep the protein about 150 grams a day to help keep lean muscle mass. Drink lots of water. Eat within 30 minutes apon awakening in the morning. Never go longer than 5 hrs without eating. __________________ "Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away." - George Carlin Scott To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

10-01-2005, 03:10 PM	#6 (permalink)
Gridlock A diamond in the rough Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,229	At the end of the day every diet works by reducing calories, keto diets work because you lose the calories from the carbohydrates and in diets like atkins you their are certain mechanisms that reduce your hunger/cravings. If you count the calories on an "eat all you like" diet you will find that you are eating less an that is why you are losing weight. Mens fitness magazine did and interesting article recently where to prove the above point they made a diet where you can eat as much as you like of any food that begins with an M or an F but nothing else. the people doing it automatically cut their calorie intake to about 1350cals a day just because they were restricted in their choices. I think the key thing with a diet is that It is comfortable enough to stick with (there is no point in following a really strict diet if it makes you ill or deprives you so much that you crack on the fourth day and have a curry blow out!) Also I tend to cycle different diets doing each for 1-2 months then trying a different one - this not only stops me from getting bored but also you can shock the body by constantly shaking things up - after too long on any diet your body gets used to it and it stops working well. __________________ To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. Last edited by Gridlock; 10-01-2005 at 03:12 PM.

10-01-2005, 03:47 PM	#7 (permalink)
winger UK-Muscle Male Animal Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Southern California, USA Posts: 10,332 Blog Entries: 1	Keto diets all the way, unless your one of the rare ones that eats carbs and your insulin dosn't spike. For me, I eat to big of meal or eat to many carbs, blood sugar gets elevated and that spikes insulin and then you store fat. Its all about insulin, expecially for 25% of us. Now if you get into ketosis you will loose more fat than any diet there is. To get into ketosis you can not consume more than 20 grams of carbs a day. If you still cant get into ketosis then you need to up the fat. Restricting calories only slows down the metabolism and you dont want that. You will loose at first and hit a major platou and soon put it all back on. __________________ To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. Last edited by winger; 10-01-2005 at 03:50 PM.

10-01-2005, 05:34 PM	#8 (permalink)
hackskii UK-Muscle Moderator Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Sunny Southern California U.S.A. Posts: 23,714	Cutting more than 500 cals a day can slow down the metabolism as much as 15-35% When you go off the diet with a slow metabolism then you will gain weight till the metabolism speeds back up resulting is weight gain. Everyone is diffrent so no approach will suit all. As said above trial and error and you will have it nailed. __________________ "Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away." - George Carlin Scott To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

06-01-2005, 07:15 PM	#3 (permalink)
big UK-Muscle Moderator Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: The only side effect of steroids is GREATNESS Posts: 5,450	Experiment. What works for me might not work for you. I tried keto twice and did horribly both times. Other people have great results from it. For me the ideal diet is extremely high protein and relatively low carb. I find that my metabolism has increased greatly from eating far more protein.

08-01-2005, 06:28 PM	#4 (permalink)
Pscarb UK-Muscle Moderator and NABBA Champion Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 10,522	agreed... a high protein low carb and low to medium fat(EFA's) diet works for me in general but when i diet for shows i drop the Carbs to less than 50g per day and watch the fat just fall off...well something like that...

10-01-2005, 11:42 AM	#5 (permalink)
jas uk Newbie Trainer Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 87	thanks for replies guys

11-01-2005, 12:02 PM	#9 (permalink)
Gridlock A diamond in the rough Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,229	^^^bump^^^^ There are two things about dieting that make it about 10 times harder, 1)what hackski said - as soon as you cut calories your metabolism slows down! 2)Your body will burn muscle as well as fat! another thing is when you have alot to lose like me 2lbs a week loss, which is supposedly the healthiest range, is just soul destroying! __________________ To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

11-01-2005, 12:05 PM	#10 (permalink)
Gridlock A diamond in the rough Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,229	when people say that keto/atkins diets went badly for them, do they mean they didn't lose weight, the diet is to hard to stick to or the side effects were too bad to cope with? __________________ To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

11-01-2005, 11:03 PM	#12 (permalink)
jas uk Newbie Trainer Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 87	today had 2 egg 2bacon 2eggs 50g ham 100g chicken 50g cheese little tomatoe /cucumber 3 egg 200g mackerel 1 egg 50g cheese could of ate more

12-01-2005, 01:20 AM	#13 (permalink)
hackskii UK-Muscle Moderator Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Sunny Southern California U.S.A. Posts: 23,714	Well, it is only restricted for carbs. Keto is good if you can do it and loose. Modified diets are ok if keto diets are not for you. All diets restrict carbs.....................Hmmmmmmmm The best diet I have ever seen is the Zone Diet by Barry Sears. ChefX mimics this diet and this diet has been around sinse 1996. __________________ "Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away." - George Carlin Scott To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

12-01-2005, 02:51 AM	#14 (permalink)
winger UK-Muscle Male Animal Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Southern California, USA Posts: 10,332 Blog Entries: 1	I had a typo in there and I changed it. If the diet is done right you can eat anything you want, except high glycimic spinking carbs. High fiber green veggies, packed with nutrients and berries as many as you can eat. __________________ To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.