adesign

What are some other good forms of fat that I can include? No trans fatty fats and I find it hard to eat too much bacon unless its a sandwich!

Currently my daily intake at average is 5 eggs for breakfast, chicken breast for next meal, maximuscle protein shake, more chicken, mince beef, protein shake and I use coconut oil for my frying and dipping food into plus I use cell mass pwo. I train 5 days a week with circuit training taking up one of those days and I use hydroxycut hardcore (3 pills) in the mornings otherwise I wont have energy to leave the house!

Im around 5ft 5. Currently at 92kg which ~18%bf. My weight hasn't really adjusted in the last 5 weeks but Im going down belt holes which is what im using as the indicator of progress.

I have been following this diet for just over 6 weeks now but my energy levels are so low. My strength is still increasing but just constantly feel drained. Im pretty positive this is down to the lack of fats? Would more fats also increase my likely hood of staying in ketosis? My carbs intake is at 15grams a day from the protein shakes and the occasional onion added with my foods.

My target is to get cut to the point of clearly visible abs but when I feel Im closer to that I will change to a TKD so I can keep it going as a lifestyle. Im hoping to get to this level by around the end of sept, do you think this is feasible? I guess thats not really a neccasary question because im just going to stick to it till im satisfied.

Im suffering from alot of headaches, drinking around 5L of water a day so is that down to the hydroxycut? I have never suffered from headaches in my life. Also I am urinating around 3 times an hour but I feel dehydrated still most of the time which I feel is odd.

If you need me to weigh out the exact weights of what Im eating please let me know. I am extremely determined to meet my goals so will do anything that is neccassary.

Lost Soul

I cant help but think this is a little off

15g of carbs? you can get away with far more and stay in ketosis
As for fats, olive oil, fish, flax, butter, seeds...all of this would have been outlined in any keto book you would have read.
Maximuscle shakes suggests that homework hasnt been done TBH.
Keto diets are not for everybody and TBH cycled ones and 5 weight sessions per week do not go hand in hand...In fact you are not even cycling carbs as I have just read...you are just trying to stay ketogenic in the form of an SKD

SKDs are not for weight trainers and I dont even think you are in ketosis as your protein intake is massive and nothing else

it seems more of a low carb, low fat non ketogenic diet thats high catabolic and brain fog is probably coming from a lack of either glucose or ketones

Start using carbs and cycling them in and out

People are taking on diets getting them wrong and they are not even required

At your weight/BF a simple calorie deficit is fine from all food groups

adesign

I just had my stats taken again today. Im now 90kg and 20.7%bf (according to the hand held machine) this was done at around 7pm which I know is not the best time and I was moderately hydrated.
This leaves me to believe LS is right in that I am just in a catabolic state (although today keto sticks say I have traces of ketones in my system). This has surprised me a lot as I am doing a lot of cardio and weight sessions. What do you think is causing this (if it is accurate) the lack of fats? Its also strange in that my strength is still increasing at a noticeable degree.
About the Maxi muscle protein shake assumption, my mum got that for me (good exam results) I normally use the 90+ but that is all totally irrelevant to any of my points or questions.
Im happy with not cycling atm. Unless I vitally need those carbs for the anti catabolic effect?
I have done this type of plan before and managed to get to around 10%bf but I admittedly had also lost a shed load of muscle mass. I really do not want that to happen again and it hasn't been till this week (being the 6th).

I have just found a good resource http://www.mynchen.demon.co.uk/index...togenic%20diet so will be reading through all of that tonight to gain a better insight. In the mean time I appreciate any thoughts! Im also going to make a blog from tomorrow with some shots so that others can learn from my trial and error.

Pscarb

here is a basic plan that can be adjusted if you feel the need...

meal 1 - 6 whole omega eggs
meal 2 - 2 scoops low carb protein drink/10 almonds
meal 3 - 200g chicken breast/salad consisting of lettuce/red onion/mushrooms/celery/cucumber(all negative foods with low carbs)
meal - 4 same as meal 2
meal - 5 same as meal 3
meal - 6 200g salmon/ green veg

hope this helps mate

adesign

That's brilliant thank you. Do you think the amount of cardio im doing should be continued/increased/decreased with the aim of decent fat loss whilst maintaining muscle mass? Alongside the diet you stated?
Also a quick side track question. I know I must have at least 9 hours of sleep a night. Does it matter at what time I achieve this sleep? As during non term time I work part time till early hours and part time freelancing I get to sleep at different times but always get at least 9 hours.

cwoody123

looks just like my diet!

Lost Soul

TBH I think you have gone way over the top on what is required
Ketosis is not required to lose weight
carbs are required to hold onto muscle
You cannot weight train on SKDs
Paul has put an SKD above, if you adopt that (which is a good plan) you must cycle carbs OR target them on training days

You cannot train in ketosis and I dont think 20 odd % BF requires it to get lean

I get to 6% with between 50 and 300g carbs a day cycled and would never leave them out

adesign

Okay so I shall follow the above CKD meal plan but turn it into a TKD by simple carbs before and after training? http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/sclark86.htm Indicates that I need 65 grams for my stats on a TKD. So I'll call that 50g as it says lower for weight loss.

I have been able to train in ketosis. I would be able to train harder without it but im making noticeable strength gains whilst in it (guess that's because I have only started training consistently again recently) . It also keeps me motivated doing a form of keto as im continuously aware of it. If I just did a cal deficit I will most likely fall off the rails! If you get me? Does this all sound solid enough for my goals so far? I am going to go find out whats the best way to get those carbs in for the TKD but if you know whats best I'd like to hear.

Thank you again.

Lost Soul

you stay in ketosis on 100g a day once there a TKD will be far higher that 65 grams per day.
I cannot support this mate, I just cant...I see too many people adopting diets they just dont need to do

You need to address your relationship with food mate...this is done away from diet forums too

adesign

What exactly is wrong with this approach then. If was upped to around 200g of carbs then would I still be seeing the same progress? Is your disagreement with the amount of carbs in the TKD I was going to follow or just the fact I wish to do a form of keto over a standard cal deficit diet? I dont feel I have bad relationship with food as of such, I aint really bothered about what I eat any more in terms of enjoyment. When I said off the rails I meant in the way of keep track of every cal I take.

Lost Soul

1 if you are scared to go off the rails then you have issues with eating
2 you dont need to count calories to lose weight
3 if you are 20% bodyfat you dont even need to think to lose fat let alone run an SKD
4 ketosis will remain in place on 100g of carbs per day
5 carbs and glycogen are needed for weight training, ketones are not suitable
6 you dont need to fear carbs

end of the day mate ketogenic diets are for a few people

1 inuslin insensitive people
2 bodybuilders who have a metabolism to suit them (used in the final stages of dieting)
3 sedentry folk

I cant imagine you are any of those TBh and I think you need to look away from fad and look at fact, logic and sense

TKDs break ketosis for training, you are not trying to stay there, you disrupt it and return shortly afterwards.

carb cycling out of ketosis is far better in terms of body composition (for most) energy levels, strength, sexual functioning, micronutrient intake (and as a result healt) and enjoyment of life

Pscarb

meal 1 - 6 whole omega eggs
meal 2 - 2 scoops low carb protein drink/10 almonds
meal 3 - 200g chicken breast/salad consisting of lettuce/red onion/mushrooms/celery/cucumber(all negative foods with low carbs)
meal - 4 same as meal 2
meal - 5 same as meal 3
meal - 6 200g salmon/ green veg

sorry mate it looks nothing like your diet the diet above has quality protein in every meal along with good fats plus their are 6 meals, yours has only 3meals and 2 snacks....nothing like your diet mate.....

adesign

Okay so its established that a 'normal' diet is best for me, CKD is best keto, but if I have the appropriate amount of carbs in a TKD that brings me out of ketosis for the training that will also be acceptable? I like that plan Pscarb gave see, suites my appetite. So I'd like to give that plan a try for 12 weeks and then go from there.

Currently I am now doing a 5 day split(3x10, 1xfailure) with:
Chest/Tri's
Shoulder/Back
abs/Biceps
Legs

10 mins of HIIT training after each session. Plus maybe an hours worth of hill walking if my gym partner cant make it or the weather is too nice.

I also just started doing circuit training once a week.

What do you think of this? Over training? More/less cardio?

Please help me solidify my training/diet as much as possible towards my aims. I am willing to do almost anything that is needed tbh but would be very happy if I could stick to the mentioned eating plan. If that is adequate how many carbs do you suggest?

My current sizes(at the biggest part of each) incase it is helpful are:

Mass: 90KG
Bicept: 15.6"
Chest: 42.2"
Abs: 41.8"
Thighs: 29"
Calfs: 17"

Currently benching 110kg for 10 on squat.
80kg for deadlift (still working on getting the form exact)
DB Shoulder press at 50kg for 10
80kg for 10 on bench press.

This has all been in ketosis I believe.

I know that I need to read up a lot more so if you have some relevent book suggests I will dive right in! Input of any form is always appreciated!

Con

PMSL i nearly choked on my oats reading that

adesign

Another question and bump. I have read conflicting articles on pre work out carbs. Some are saying take slow release carbs 2-3 hours before and others are saying fast release 30mins before. What do you guys reckon?