Lost Soul

Nice info macro, thanks mate

Have you had a read of Charles Poliquins theory/study on this?

He links caffeine to cortisol, cortisol to body fat

food for thought on ECA and other caff based thermogenics people use when dieiting

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Macro

there may be some support for his theory with caffiene ALONE, but see also the increase in T levels (and suppressing cortisol is quite easy )

Int J Sport Nutr Exerc Metab. 2008 Apr;18(2):131-41.Links
Dose effect of caffeine on testosterone and cortisol responses to resistance exercise.Beaven CM, Hopkins WG, Hansen KT, Wood MR, Cronin JB, Lowe TE.
Horticulture and Food Research Institute of New Zealand, Hamilton, New Zealand.

INTRODUCTION: Interest in the use of caffeine as an ergogenic aid has increased since the International Olympic Committee lifted the partial ban on its use. Caffeine has beneficial effects on various aspects of athletic performance, but its effects on training have been neglected. PURPOSE: To investigate the acute effect of caffeine on the exercise-associated increases in testosterone and cortisol in a double-blind crossover study. METHODS: Twenty-four professional rugby-league players ingested caffeine doses of 0, 200, 400, and 800 mg in random order 1 hr before a resistance-exercise session. Saliva was sampled at the time of caffeine ingestion, at 15-min intervals throughout each session, and 15 and 30 min after the session. Data were log-transformed to estimate percent effects with mixed modeling, and effects were standardized to assess magnitudes. RESULTS: Testosterone concentration showed a small increase of 15% (90% confidence limits, +/- 19%) during exercise. Caffeine raised this concentration in a dose-dependent manner by a further small 21% (+/- 24%) at the highest dose. The 800-mg dose also produced a moderate 52% (+/- 44%) increase in cortisol. The effect of caffeine on the testosterone:cortisol ratio was a small decline (14%; +/- 21%). CONCLUSION: Caffeine has some potential to benefit training outcomes via the anabolic effects of the increase in testosterone concentration, but this benefit might be counteracted by the opposing catabolic effects of the increase in cortisol and resultant decline in the testosterone:cortisol ratio.

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Lost Soul

Nice one macro

I hate when pubmed stuff finishes off with these lines

What do you like for cortisol control for natural trainers long term and PCT/after PCT for steroid users?

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miles2345

everyone is different there isnt a rule

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thestudbeast

cortisol is only an issue with testosterone is low, they use exogenous testosterone so.................

Lost Soul

and naturals?

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thestudbeast

should avoid strong adrenal stimulants, caffines double edged as it increases insulin sensitivity if taken every day which will in turn lower cortisol in the long run.

Controling the hormone thats making them fat is a better idea than a stimulant.

Lost Soul

For sure...its just getting that over to those who enjoy grenade, EPH, T5 and so on

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Macro

there is very mixed data on caffeine and insulin sensitivity. Also keep in mind that training, which none of these studies take into account, has a significant impact on the metabolic effects of many compounds. Since using caffeine with and without exercise produces very different effects on plasma levels of things like FFA's, insulin, blood glucose, etc...

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Kezz

I use T5's every day and the fat is flying off me!!

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Macro

that is a very high dose ephedrine stack, there is not much benefit exceeding the 10:1 caffeine to ephedrine ratio. thats just over 3:1. Though should be fine, just perhaps a little taxing on the CNS.

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thestudbeast

Yes the short term studies tend to say one thing and long term another, still I get my caffine though green tea. With the info available I'd say either use caffine everyday in moderate amounts or not at all.

Macro

green tea (egcg in particular) has many benefits with respect to glucose clearance and insulin sensitivity.

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