Mack

Cheers.. I think the PsiCarb post is where i got the idea from! Carb cycling does seem better in terms of allowing carb-up days. I haven't had a problem going sans carbs for the week but thinking long term it may be a better option. Haven't had a **** in 24 hours on this keto thing... I'm like a 4 a day man usually! I'll see where I'm at on the weekend and then make a decision about what to do next week. I have upped my fats with the EPA fish oils, so this in conjunction with dropping the milk from my protein shakes should bring me toward ketosis.

I train 5 days a week and understand weight loss with carb cycling is more effective with only a 3 day routine because of the no carb days when you don't train? So for me that would be 5 days of post-workout carbs (maltodextrin, dextrose..) and a 40/30/30 meal in the evening... I don't think that would leave anytime for Zero carb days or carb-up days unless I extend it to a 9 day diet cycle. Any ideas on that?

Durk

You don't want any more than 'trace' on your keto sticks, and the colour change is so slight, hard to detect with the naked eye sometimes.

If your keto sticks turn bright purple, that is a state of ketoacidosis, which is dangerous.

Your body will start using ketone bodies as fuel, so that is why you don't excrete a lot of them.

Also, milk is FULL of carbs that will slow the body going into ketosis.

PSCarb is right, this type of diet is really only a comp diet technique, and not really suitable for most people in the long run.

People often get quite a bit of rebound after doing ketosis, or muscle loss if they don't do a re-feed or have a high carb day.

Pscarb

you do not want to run zero carb days this is very bad for muscle building or even maintaining muscle...

Mack

I'm now in my second day of ketosis. I think upping the fats tipped me over.

hackskii

Well, there is probably more than one reason you are not getting into ketosis.
For one I would drop the skim milk, skim milk is very low in fat and higher in carbs than regular milk, so drop that, and yes this by itself can keep you out of ketosis as the lactose is a carbohydrate.

Second it could take a bit longer than a couple or few days, keto diets are really telling the body to turn from being a sugar burner to a fat burner, keeping in some carbs will short cut this even more.

Third, you probably are not taking in enough fats, on keto diets there is no set requirements for fats, or which ones for that matter, so up the fat and drop the milk.

I know many guys dont like keto diets, I do but that is just me, many people including myself fend very well on them as I dont get hungry and start binge eating. Ketogenic diets I feel I have unlimited energy on, more than carbohydrates in the mix. This is probably due to spiking of blood sugars and insulin which will store the meal.

You will lose alot of water on a keto diet, that is ok, but you will have to add in some fiber as keto diets are known to have problems with bowel movements.
As paul suggested 1 gram of carbs holds 3 grams of water, 1 gram of fats hold .5 grams of water, this is a huge diffrence.

One other problem with keto diets is after long periods of time you tend to have elivated cortisol, magnolia root helps block cortisol as well as the ones over the counter products.

For the stubbern guys that find dieting hard, keto diets are good for them, keto diets are not pre-contest diets but more for the people that dont train.

Test the first pee in the morning, this is where you will get your most accurate measurement on keto sticks.

Good luck

hackskii

This rarely happens with keto diets, unless you are an alcoholic or diabetic where ketoacidosis is something to worry about.
Keto diets have been studied for almost 150 years and I can give refrences if you like on that.

Pscarb

Scott all types of milk in the UK have 5g of carbs per 100ml in the states you can probably buy low carb and low fat milk though...

hackskii

Sorry Paul, I dont know how much 100ml is off hand.......
When we make refrences to a glass of anything it is 8oz. unless you are talking beer then it is 12oz......How confusing eh?
We deal in oz. in the States, I know it is a bit arcaic but.......

If you drop your carbs below 20g a day, up the fats, to some extent you will get into ketosis.

Pscarb

agreed on the ketosis mate this is why i mentoined that drinking milk was not the way to go

Mack

I'm between 13 stone 10 and 14 stone at the moment, so in total I have lost about half a stone since I started looking at my diet. I found the first week of experimenting with keto wasn't that effective with little weight loss... although admittedly that was down to necking skimmed milk protein shakes a couple times a day. After cutting that out and taking EPA fish oil tablets (1000MG) with meals I eventually hit mild ketosis at the end of the week (Day 5-6).

At the weekend I had some carbs as I felt I needed a break, but didn't go overboard. I understand thats supposed to do something with thyroid levels. So I'm giving it another go this week... started off with a protein shake with water and had a 5 egg scrambled eggs with smoke salmon so far today. My aim is suppose is initially to cut down to 13 stone dead.

Does anyone recommend the amount of fish oil EPA to take? I have a large tub of the stuff and although the RDA is like 3000MG I get the impression I shoulds exceed this dose?

Also, I like to have some grated cheddar with my eggs.. not alot, but just enough. What's your opinion on this with a Keto? Should be alright?

Also, what sort of carlorie intake should I aim at? I'm 5'10" and circa <14 stone and hitting the gym 5 times a week and started introducing 20 mins HIIT cardio after my workouts.

[EDIT] cheers - sorry for all the questions... I'd like to see 13 stone by christmas day if possible and hold onto the limited muscle I've managed to put on my once skinny frame =)

hackskii

Cheese on keto diets are just fine, fish oils are ok too and generally 6-12 a day is pretty much average, more if you suffer from inflammation.

Thing with keto diets is this, on a keto diet you get your energy from fats, that is not a problem due to fats are actually more efficient than carbs (hence why some feel so good on keto diets due to stable blood sugars), it basicly tells the body to burn fat for fuel, this is one reason why it works so well for some as it taps into fat stores for fuel.

Many that do resistance training use carbs to re-supply glycogen stores, this can be done but you have to modify that diet on a certain day for about 2 meals.
If you do glycogen loading, then the protein drops and so does the fats as you are taking in carbs for about 2 meals.
This will re-feed the glycogen stores and also keep the thyorid firing and also cortisol at bay as insulin is anabolic and cortisol is catabolic.

Durk

I would experiment with the amount of carbs............

I go into ketosis with 50-70 g of carbs/day.

dudeson

I usually try to carb cycle as much as I can, not just for dieting purposes. It seems like a good way for me to avoid gaining fat while putting on muscle. I would do higher carb days when doing heavy presses 3 or 4 low days then a medium day when I would do my legs. This was a very easy to stick with, and once I started throwing in regular cardio, I actually would burn fat. So, it seems carb cycling is the way to go, but for now I am really trying to focus on losing body fat so the keto diet seems to be helping a lot.

Gains

Bang-on. If you want lasting results you have to make lasting changes.

kaz28

Carb cycling if fab! I am following the one Pscarb posted. Works fab for me, put on weight but body fat levels have dropped already. Energy levels are good also. I would definatly recommend carb cycling over this one anyday (not that I have tried the keto one). Just wanted to put my 2pennies worth in.