SiRSKiNBAD

Hi

Im really looking for sum help , I having a lot of trouble trying to lose fat from my tummy and chest .

I train 4 times a week and my diet is pretty good but I just cant seem to trim of fat .

Has any1 had similar problems ??

I really wanna trim down for the summer .

Any help or diet tips would be really helpful .

Thankz

hackskii

Post your diet and we can have a look at it.

Personally if you are just going to diet down and lose some fat then I would try the atkins aproach. It is fast and you can lose alot of fat on it.

Some guys on the board like this approach and some dont. If you want more information then Private Message me and I will type it up for you.

Lorian

And some like a half-way house between the two

Certainly look at reducing your carb intake, expecially in the evenings. Essentially you want to be consuming the majority of your carbs earlier in the day. You also want to have simple carbs immediatley post-workout.

As hackskii said, post a sample daily diet and people will be able to help more




L

Musclehed

Firstly, do you know how many calories ur eating a day, do you know your maintance calories. Law of energy balance, you eat less than mainance (e.g 500 kcals less) U WILL LOOSE WEIGHT. And are you doing the follwing things.

(As lorain said P+C in morning and 2 meals after w/o. P + F the rest of the time

• Eat protein in every meal and eat about six meals a day.
• Don't eat meals high in carbs alone.
• Don't eat fat and carbs together in substantial amounts.
• In some meals, eat protein with carbs, but very little fat (less than 5 grams).
• In other meals, eat protein with fat, but very little carbs (less than 10 grams).

Protein — Eggs, dairy sources including cottage cheese and plain yogurt, lean meat sources including salmon, tuna, chicken, beef; protein powders such as milk protein isolates and whey/casein blends.

Carbohydrates — Vegetables (all types), mixed beans, fruit, oatmeal, whole grain breads.

Fats — Fish oil (in salmon or as a salmon/fish or isolated EPA/DHA supplement), flax oil, mixed nuts, olive oil. (make sure your getting enough of these)

Hope some of this helps, sorry if you know all this too, and i sound like a condescending ****

Dave

hackskii

I know I am going to get some flack form some of the guys on the board but here is a brief overview of the Atkins aproach.

What basically the Atkins diet is about is using fat for fuel instead of carbs for fuel. So to tip into the fat burning stage you basically have to starve the body of carbs and in about 2 to 3 days you will slip into ketosis and burn massive amounts of fat. The diet is nice as you don’t go hungry and can eat rather large portions of food. Simply by cutting back on the carbs the body will start using more fat than carbs.

This is done by restricting the carbs to 20 grams per day. That is not a lot as 1 small apple equals that @ 22 grams of carbs. So you have to be careful not to go over or you will slip out of ketosis. Now you still can lose weight going higher than the 20 grams but the fat loss is not as fast.
You might crave carbohydrates for like the first few days but then you wont and your energy level will go through the roof.
You should have more energy and feel pretty good.

One of the problems with Atkins is you will need to take some vitamins as most of your minerals and vitamins come from carbs. Not a problem take some supplements and you will be ok.

You can lose about 12 lbs in 2-3 weeks. Even for stubborn losers you can lose pretty easy.

Pretty much you can eat all the eggs, meat, cheese, chicken, fish, and stuff like that you want. As long as you are getting fat in your diet you will burn fat.
You can lose more fat than if you did not eat anything. That’s right even fasting. Oh the weight will be the same but your muscle mass will be lower and body fat higher on fasting than on the Atkins. Sounds good huh?

Here is why it works. Most people think fat stores as fat. This is just wrong, carbohydrates store as fat because carbs raise blood sugars and raised blood sugars trigger a response for insulin and insulin is a storage hormone.
You can slow down insulin’s response from carbs by adding a fat to it. Oh, not only does fat not store as fat but suppresses insulin. So you can slow down carbs spiking blood sugars by adding fats, protein, and fiber.
Insulin will lock the body out from tapping into stored fat. Not only carbs store as fat but insulin’s response will stop you from burning your own fat. So this is kind of a catch 22 if you are trying to lose body fat.

Another thing, if you eat carbs before you go to bed and the insulin is there the pituitary gland wont produce HGH while you sleep.
The pituitary gland produces GH the first couple hours of sleep (REM sleep). Insulin stops the pituitary gland from producing GH.

When going off of Atkins you simply add carbs slowly like 5 grams a week and use the lower glycemic index carbs and you will be just fine. On Atkins you wont be able to eat pasta, sugar, white flower, white rice and crap like that. No chips and stuff as they are high on the glycemic index and also are high in hydrogenated oils (man made fats) those are vary bad.

So drop the carbs to 20 or less a day (total).
Drink lots of water.
Eat all the protein you want
Up the fat.
Take some vitamins.

Panthro

personally i dont think the atkins diet is that good for BBing.. low carbs, yes, almost zero, no!

and another great post from musclehead!

hackskii

I did not say it was good for body building. Body building is just that building the body. But fat loss is fat loss and that is how the thread started. This is quite helpfull for the guys that have a problem losing weight eating carbs or insulin resistant.

If you want to bulk up or are a bicycle racer then I would say eat the carbs.
But if you want to lose body fat and other diets have failed then by all means consider Atkins aproach. There are some people that do have problems with blood sugars and keeping insulin in check for these individules is a must.

Musclehed

Come on lets see your diet, in my experience when people think their diet is 'pretty good' there can be some fundamental flaws.

I am going to have to side with Panthro with this debate (and not just because of nice comment - cheers). I am not a fan of zero carb diets for long periods of time (I loose LBM without stong prohormones). I much rather see a diet that represents more of a lifestyle approach rather than just a "quick-fix" diet;

1. Multiply lean body mass in kg by 22.

2. Next add 500 to this number and this gives the resting metabolic rate.

3. Next, multiply this number above by an activity factor (somewhere between 1.2-2.1). This gives the resting metabolic rate plus activity factor number.

4. Then take the resting metabolic rate and multiply this by 0.10 or 0.15.

5. Add this last number to the number you got when you multiplied your resting metabolic rate by your activity factor in order to determine daily maintenance calorie level.

Then get the maintenance number and take 85% of this number (4160 multiplied by 0.85). This gives us about 3500 calories. This would be what I would need to be eating every day.

you MUST continually recalculate your numbers as you lose weight!!!!

eat the first half of your meals (3 meals) as protein plus carbs, and the last half of your meals (3 meals) as protein plus fat

As far as foods, the guidelines are to stick with only low glycemic carbs (except for the post workout period where you should slam something like protein/dextrose/malto). Acceptable carbs are fruits, vegetables, beans, oatmeal, and a small amount of whole grain bread. As far as protein, stick to the slower digesting proteins like milk protein blends that contain both whey and casein and whole food proteins. For fat sources, a small amount of saturated fat should be eaten while the bulk of your diet should contain polyunsaturated fats (fish oil, flax oil, flax seeds) and monounsaturated fats (olive oil, canola oil, nuts). Below is an example of a 3400-3500 calorie Don’t Diet program using the Taper idea:

Meal #1
8 oz. cottage cheese
1 banana
1 scoop of Protein
1 cup of oatmeal (before cooked)

Meal #2
1/2 cup of oatmeal (before cooked)
2 scoops of Protein
1 piece of flax bread
1 piece of fat free cheese

Meal #3 (post workout)
protein/dextrose/malto

Meal #4
7 egg whites
2 whole eggs
1/2 cup vegetables
2 slices of fat free cheese
2 teaspoons of flax oil

Meal #5
1 can of tuna fish
Salad
1 oz mixed nuts
2 teaspoons flax oil

Meal #6
1 can of sockeye salmon (3 times per week, eat 8 oz extra lean beef instead, but take a few concentrated EPA/DHA capsules with this meal when you don’t eat fish)
Salad
1 oz mixed nuts

If you do the above the laws of energy balance with force you to loose FAT (1-2lbs a week). And you can even add muscle as you stil have PWO nutrition in check. If you learn to do this it truely is a life style and a lot easier to stick to than a zero carb diet

BTW/ All the above is from beradi (nutritional genious), I would love to claim credit but hey

Musclehed

btw if u follow the above guidelines but dont x 0.85 but add 500 kcals instead it make for a great bulking diet.

Man Im soooo bored of revision

Panthro

Very very true! Ive seem some diets that people think are 'pretty good' and they are awful! lol..

great post mate. some good info there. not seen those calculations before, im going to have a play with them..

as for revision.. it is a nightmare.. only one exam to go then its over.. till november.. only another 5 years or so of exams left..

hackskii

I know formulas and equations work good in math but everyones metabolism is diffrent. There is no way I could eat that much food and lose weight.
I like to keep the cals down to like 500 per meal.
The first meal would have me bogged down and it is too low on the protein.
I feel that the 40-30-30 aproach is the best (for me).
That is 40 percent of the total cals from carbs, then protein, then fats.
Had great success with this some years ago.

Lets break down your first meal
Meal #1
8 oz. cottage cheese= Protein = 15 g, Carb = 6.7 g, Fat = 1.3 g
1 banana= 26.5 grams of carbs.
1 scoop of Protein= 22-25 grams of protein and 4 grams carbs
1 cup of oatmeal (before cooked)= 54 grams carbs and 10 grams protein and 5 grams fat.

Total:
99.5 grams carbs.--------396 total calories
42 grams protein.--------168 total calories
6.3 grams of fat.---------27 total calories
591 total calories. This is a good meal.
Now if I read these numbers right the fat is too low the carbs are too high and the protein is about right.
Also bananas are high on the GI so people that have problems with carbs should avoid those and maybe select berries instead.

Dont get me wrong I am not picking on the diet as it is not bad but it could be imporved. I feel that the ratios are not quite right.

robdog

i have to agree with musclehed that dieting should be a lifestyle thing rather than a quick fix. the diet jimmy worked out for me is good and most importantly managable which means unlike a fad diet i can stick to it for the forseable future rather than lose loads of weight realy quick on a fad diet then as soon as i eat normaly again put it all back on. a good healthy balance is the key imo which includes protein, fat and carbs.

Musclehed

The above meal examples were used for Beradi him self. I think he is 96kg (5% BF), and when bilking goes up to 8% fat WOWW, which no prohormones or AAS. That truely is the power of nutrition. So for for you average person (maybe not Hacskii- being 220lbs) the food would be less. But basically stick to what works for you.

Yeah Panthro I got one more to go too, wooo, Main group chemistry, not too bad. taking some physiology/nutrition optional modules next year, looking forward to it. I find it easier to eat well during revsion though (less nights out), I get to the gym more too, mainly to avoid work, and the uni gym is empty. No metrosexuals doing 20 reps of isolation bicep curls for 8 reps (badly), with the 5kg dumbells.

where the hell is SiRSKiNBAD anyway

Musclehed

BTW, my rebuttal Hackskii

- fat is too low

As I have said before I never mix carbs and fat. I realise low GI will not effect insulin so its ok in that situation. So he has high G.I and low fat.. no probs

- carbs are too high

I find in the first meal of the day (and PWO) this is the time you can up the carbs, since you have been fasting for 8 hours (unless ur a old school guy who sets his alarm to down a protein shake). SO when you BREAK this FAST (cleva), your body generally uses the carbs very efficiently. I believe the other P+C meals are a little lower in carbs.

- bananas are high on the GI so people that have problems with carbs should avoid those and maybe select berries instead

Fair point, but once again I feel it should be fine with it being in your first meal for a energy boost for the day.

winger

I think the best diet is one that you can stick with. I think Beradi's diet is good but 2 meals of oats is a bit much. Get rid of the bannana and low fat cheese and suppliment it with a low insulin spiking carb. I will make it easy for ya. Go here and you can eat anything that falls bellow the number 50.
http://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/showthrea...ghlight=winger
I like the 40-30-30 myself. Anyone can train but diet is way harder. If it was so easy why isn't every body at the gym have 5% bodyfat.
Here is an easy ratio to help you keep the 40-30-30 (zone diet).
9 g carbs
7 g protein
1.5 g fat
We will call this one block of food. For my lean muscle mass I eat 19 blocks a day.

Breakfast, 5 block meal

45g carbs
35g protein
8g fat

Snack, 2 blocks

18g carbs
14g protein
3g fat

Lunch, 5 block meal

Snack, 2 blocks

Dinner, 5 blocks.

This is 3 meals and 2 snacks. In order to come up with the correct amount of blocks for an individual you need to find out your lean muscle mass. Here is a calculator for your bodyfat very nice. This is for men. The women is on the left.
http://www.drsears.com/drsearspages/bodyfatcalmale.jsp
This is not my diet it is from a book called Enter the Zone by Barry Sears.
Here is a summary of The Zone Diet. Good reading I didn't want to copy and past because if the thread looks to long then people will blow it off.
I know you are going to say that you aren't getting enough protein. I did this diet and so did Hackskii about 10 years ago and both of use went from about 22% bf to 10% bf without cardio. All of our lifts stayed the same. Infact in the begging I required less sleep. Check out the link.
http://www.drsears.com/drsearspages/toolssummary.jsp