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Old 10-04-2004, 11:42 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Thumbs up Carbohydrates and blood sugars. Dieting and carbohydrates and misunderstandings.

First off this article is for people that want to lose weight and have a problem with carbohydrates and spiking blood sugars. This article is not complete but I will finish later as it is a long read.

What about grains? Well, 8000 years ago, there were no grains, bread or pasta.
Agriculture is a very recent (by evolutionary standards) invention.
We regularly eat large quantities of dense, highly processed carbohydrates such as grains and grain based products like pasta. Because we haven’t evolved to a stage where we can eat excessive amounts of these high density carbohydrates without adverse biochemical consequences, our bodies aren’t able to operate properly. We gain excess weight, suffer from diabetes, heard disease and a host of other ills, feel sluggish, and generally perform at a sub-par level.

Much of the information we received over the years about losing weight is simply wrong.
Over the past 20 years, this misinformation has been responsible for making us fat-phobic. We consume only foods low in fat in a attempt to remain or get thin.
What has been the payoff for our fat obsession? Has our dedication to low fat lifestyle turned us into a nation of lean healthy people?
NO! In fact the exact opposite has resulted. Over the past 20 years the US population (as well as most countries that eat a western diet) has experienced a consistent increase in excess body fat. Obesity over the last ten years has reached widespread levels in the U.S. despite the public actually consuming less fat than before.
In November of 1998, the U.S. Surgeon General declared an epidemic on obesity in America.

THE FOOD PYRAMID………..I don’t think you guys in the UK have this but I am sure there are similar things judging by your diets.

The food pyramid was not designed by the medical establishment. It was designed by the US Agricultural Department. Now the Agricultural Department job is to sell agricultural products.
The current “Healthy” diet consists of about sixty-five percent carbohydrates, fifteen percent fat, and twenty percent protein. These numbers are shown in this pyramid. As you see, we have been told to eat almost eleven servings a day of breads, cereal, rice, and pasta. They are at the basis of the pyramid. These products are refined carbohydrates. They are manmade carbohydrates.
Was this diet ever tested in the human population prior to being recommended by the US government? Surprisingly, the answer is no. This diet came out in the late sixties in response to the rising epidemic of heart disease. For some reason people still think this is healthy eating habits.
The American Heart Association decided that since fat is a key component for one of the risk factors for heart disease, then Americans should start eating less saturated fat. The problem is that there are more types of fat than just saturated fat. The government assumed we were not smart enough to just cut out saturated fats, so it urged us to cut out all fat. Fat was labeled as the enemy.
Fat is a source of calories. When you cut out fat, you have to replace those calories with something else. The replacement was carbohydrates, because carbohydrates often don't have any fat. The vacuum formed by reducing all the fat in our diets was taken up by carbohydrates.
When this diet was created in the late sixties, twenty-five percent of the adult population was obese. We have now hit the fifty percent mark.
Dietary Fat Does Not Make You Fat!
The solution to this apparent riddle might surprise you, but the explanation is simple. Eating fat in the proper amounts does not make you fat. I will take this one step farther. Eating fat does not make you fat. This sounds like nutritional heresy, but there’s scientific proof. In the 1950’s, Kekwick and Pawan at the University of London in England published a landmark study. They put patients on a diet that was low in calories (1000) but high in fat. In fact, fat supplied 90 percent of the total calories. What happened? Those patients lost significant amounts of weight. When the same patients were put on a high-carbohydrate diet (90% of the calories form carbs) with the same number of calories, there was virtually no weight loss.
There is one industry that has devoted a lot of money to the understanding what fattens animals up. The cattle and hog industry. They know the fastest way to fatten animals up to get the most profit. How do they do this? By not allowing the cattle to roam and graze and feed them lots and lots of low fat, complex carbohydrates, in the form of grain.
What is the fastest way to fatten us up just like cows? Eat lots of low-fat processed carbohydrates.
I am not against carbohydrates just the processed man made ones. Fresh fruits and vegetables are better than breads and pasta’s any day.

Eating carbohydrates stimulates insulin secretion. Since your body has a limited capacity to store carbohydrates, doesn't know when its next meal might be, and has an unlimited ability to store food as fat, insulin does just that. Insulin turns the excess carbohydrates into fat! Dietary fat, on the other hand, does not stimulate insulin secretion. By eating the proper ratio of low-density carbohydrates, dietary fat, and protein, you can control your insulin production.
INSULIN-STIMULATING CARBOHYDRATE CONTENT
Since a carbohydrate restricting Diet is about insulin control, you have to realize that not all carbohydrates affect insulin equally. Every complex carbohydrate must be broken down into simple sugars and will eventually enter the bloodstream as glucose, which in turn will have a stimulatory effect on insulin secretion. Fiber (both soluble and insoluble) cannot be broken down into simple sugars, and therefore it will have no impact on insulin. Taking this into account
If a carbohydrate source (such as pasta) has very little fiber content, then virtually all of its listed carbohydrate content will be insulin-stimulating carbohydrate. On the other hand, if a carbohydrate source is rich in fiber (such as broccoli), then its insulin-stimulating carbohydrate content will be significantly reduced. This means that more volume of fiber-rich carbohydrate source must be consumed to have the same impact on insulin secretion as a much smaller volume of low-fiber content carbohydrate.
You can quickly see that you would have to eat a tremendous volume of broccoli (approximately 12 cups) to have the same impact on insulin as eating a relatively small amount of cooked pasta. This is why starches and grains are considered high-density carbohydrates, whereas fruits are medium-density carbohydrates, and vegetables are low-density carbohydrates. The Atkins and Zone Diets relies heavily on low-density carbohydrates, so large volumes of food must be consumed in order to have an appreciable impact on insulin. This is also why high-density carbohydrates are used in moderation on the Zone Diet because very small volumes can stimulate excess insulin production

The glycemic index is a measure of the entry rates of various carbohydrate sources into the bloodstream. The faster their rate of entry, the greater the effect on insulin secretion. There are three factors that affect the glycemic index of a particular carbohydrate. The first is the amount of fiber (and especially soluble fiber) a carbohydrate contains; the second is the amount of fat found in the carbohydrate source (the more fat consumed with the carbohydrate, the slower the rate of entry into the bloodstream); the third is the composition of the complex carbohydrate itself. The greater the amount of glucose it contains, the higher the glycemic index; whereas the more fructose a carbohydrate contains, the lower the glycemic index. This is because fructose cannot enter into the bloodstream without first being converted into glucose, a relatively slow process that takes place in the liver.
With time the glycemic index soon became the new fashionable guideline to determine which carbohydrates to eat. However, the glycemic index had significant experimental problems in dealing with low-density carbohydrates, such as vegetables.

The difficulties arose because determination of the glycemic index requires that a sufficient intake of carbohydrate (usually 50 grams) be consumed. But it is simply too difficult to consume this amount of carbohydrate from most vegetables at a sitting. For instance this would require consuming about 16 cups of steamed broccoli. As a result, nearly all the glycemic index work has been done with grains, starches, and some fruits, and virtually nothing is known about the glycemic index of low-density vegetables that are the backbone of the Zone and Atkins Diets.
Ultimately, a healthy diet is obtained through insulin moderation, which can best be achieved by primarily consuming low-density carbohydrates that also have a low-glycemic index. That means eating a lot of vegetables.
Even though the glycemic index of each of these carbohydrates (1 cup pasta and 1 cup broccoli) are about the same, 1 cup of pasta generates 20 times the insulin response as 1 cup of broccoli. And a single apple generates about 6 times the insulin response as the 1 cup of broccoli.
And you can also understand why many of the carbohydrates found in traditional grain-based vegetarian diets are likely to dramatically increase insulin levels. For example, white rice generates a tremendous amount of insulin response compared to the same volume of oatmeal or barley because rice has a greater glycemic load. Likewise, most breakfast cereals will have the same impact on insulin as a Snickers bar, since their glycemic loads are approximately the same. Meanwhile cooked vegetables represent a very low glycemic load, which is why they are a critical component of the Zone and Atkins Diets.

But remember that the more processed a food, the higher the glycemic load. This is why boiled beans have a much lower glycemic load than the same volume of canned beans. And when you make any bean (like black beans) into a soup, the glycemic load skyrockets because the prolonged cooking breaks down the cell walls of the bean making it easier for the body to digest it into simple sugars for absorption.
Carbs before bed?
If you eat a carbohydrate rich snack before bed, you’ve done everything in your power to inhibit growth hormone release. Why? Because you raised insulin levels, and insulin retards the secretion of growth hormone from the pituitary gland.
At this point this article is incomplete and am going to post anyway but I will add to it later when I get a chance. I wanted to go into carbohydrate addictions but will have to add that later.
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Old 10-04-2004, 11:51 PM   #2 (permalink)
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great stuff hackskii! More of those please! Lets make it a sticky...
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Old 10-04-2004, 11:52 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hackskii
Over the past 20 years, this misinformation has been responsible for making us fat-phobic. We consume only foods low in fat in a attempt to remain or get thin............


Dietary Fat Does Not Make You Fat!

Man,i say that till i go blue in the face.

As for the second bit of the quote, i think ill get it tattooed to my forehead!
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Old 11-04-2004, 03:20 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Hey guys this is a copy and past but good information to back up over consumption of carbohydrates.
Insulin Resistance:
Other than the genes you inherited, there are two primary causes of insulin resistance:
1) a long-term diet that has been high in carbohydrates and
2) nutritional deficiencies.
Your body breaks down carbohydrates into sugar (glucose) which then enters your blood stream. The more carbohydrates consumed, the higher your blood sugar goes, the more insulin your body produces to keep those blood sugar levels in a normal range. Insulin's job is to push the sugar out of your bloodstream and into the cells.
On the surface of the cells in your body are insulin receptors, which act like little doors that open and close to regulate the inflow of blood sugar.
After many years of consuming a high-carbohydrate diet, your cells have been bombarded with so much insulin that these doors begin to malfunction and shut down.
With less doors open, your body needs to produce even more insulin to push the glucose into the cells. More insulin causes even more doors to close and as this vicious cycle continues, a condition called "insulin resistance" sets in.
The insulin resistance can get so bad that your body can no longer produce enough insulin to push the blood sugar into the cells. The blood sugar then rises out of control with the result of type 2 diabetes. Diabetes is simply an extreme case of insulin resistance.
The key point for you to understand is that your energy, wellness and longevity are primarily dependent on improving the sensitivity of your cells to insulin - how well your cells open and close the doors and clear sugar from the blood.
What's the Bottom line?
Since type 2 diabetes is really a severe case of insulin resistance, the solution to your condition and to help prevent diabetes is to find a way to increase the sensitivity of your cells to insulin and help your body get the sugar out of the blood and into the cells so it can be metabolized and turned into energy. (This inability to metabolize sugar is one of the reasons why most people who are insulin resistant often feel tired and fatigued.)
The Deadly Effects of Excess Insulin!
Your "metabolism" is the food processing and energy production system of your body. It is made up of extremely fine-tuned internal processes.
Insulin is the master hormone of your metabolism. When it is out of balance and your insulin levels are consistently elevated, a long list of deadly complications are created:
* Heart Disease
* Hardening of the Arteries
* Damage to Artery Walls
* Increased Cholesterol Levels
* Vitamin & Mineral Deficiencies
* Kidney Disease
* Fat Burning Mechanism Turned Off
* Accumulation & Storage of Fat
* Weight Gain
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Old 11-04-2004, 03:25 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Thanks for that mate, it was good reading that was somthing that i was trying to get info about.

cheers

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Old 24-03-2006, 01:42 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Insulin

Insulin deals with more than glucose, it is a hormone of nutrient storage,which includes ALL the nutrients including fat and amino acids.

Insulin is an ANABOLIC hormone that stimulates the biosynthetic pathways, with the key tissues being adipose (fat), the liver and MUSCLE.

It promotes glucose uptake into muscle to replenish the largest store of glycogen in the body (and muscle glycogen stays in the muscle, this includes heart muscle, and increases the uptake of amino acids into muscle, which are used to make protein, which is the basic building block of muscle.

Insulin is released in a pulsatile fashion, every 11-15 minutes with a half life of 2-6 minutes NO MATTER WHAT YOU EAT.

Fasting levels of insulin are about 20-100 pmol/l
Postprandial (feeding) ae 350-580 pmol/l

Insulin release is not only triggered by hyperglycaemia (high levels of glucose in the blood), but by certain amino acids and the gut hormones VIP, GIP and CCK.

Insulin also triggers other anabolic hormones to be released.

Insulin promotes CELL GROWTH.


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Old 24-03-2006, 01:58 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Insulin resistance is usually a disorder of the elderly or obese. It basically means there is too much body for the amount of insulin produced. A drop in weight of 10-15% usually corrects this.

As for the cell surface receptor 'damage', I had thought that it was hydrogenated fats that 'block up' the glucose receptors.

There are 5 categories of glucose receptors, some are tissue specific, called GLUT 1 through 5.

GLUT 4 is stored in the cytoplasm of the cell and is transported to the cell surface under the influence of insulin and increases the uptake of glucose by 6-10 x.

GLUT 1 and 3 are always present on the cell surface, (GLUT 1 is on RBCs or red blood cells).

I do have loads more info on GLUT receptors, I love my cell and molecular biology.

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Old 24-03-2006, 05:55 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Old 14-05-2006, 08:10 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hackskii

What about grains? Well, 8000 years ago, there were no grains, bread or pasta.
Agriculture is a very recent (by evolutionary standards) invention.
We regularly eat large quantities of dense, highly processed carbohydrates such as grains and grain based products like pasta.

Structure and evolution of cereal genomes
Andrew H Paterson
, John E Bowers, Daniel G Petersony,
James C Estill
 and Brad A Chapman

The cereal species, of central importance to our diet, began to
diverge 50–70 million years ago. For the past few thousand
years, these species have undergone largely parallel
selection regimes associated with domestication and
improvement. The rice genome sequence provides a
platform for organizing information about diverse cereals,and together with genetic maps and sequence samples from other cereals is yielding new insights into both the sharedand the independent dimensions of cereal evolution. New dataand population-based approaches are identifying genes that
have been involved in cereal improvement. Reducedrepresentation sequencing promises to accelerate gene discovery in many large-genome cereals, and to better link the under-explored genomes of ‘orphan’ cereals with
state-of-the-art knowledge.
Current Opinion in Genetics & Development 2003, 13:644–650


BAC
bacterial artificial chromosome

CBCS
Cot-based cloning and sequencing

EST
expressed sequence tag

SNP
single-nucleotide polymorphism

STS
sequence-tagged site


Introduction
The cereal crops, which provide about half of the caloriesin our diet, represent a relatively recent branch of the plant family tree. Although the angiosperm (floweringplant) lineage is thought to be
200 million years old,cereals such as maize (Zea), rice (Oryza), sorghum (Sorghum),and wheat (Triticum) diverged from a common
ancestor only
50–70 million years ago [1]. Approximately
10,000 years ago, humans began to select cereals
for traits including non-shattering, determinate growth,
increased seed number, size, and carbohydrate content,
and reduced dormancy
[2]. Although these ‘domestication’
efforts were ostensibly independent and occurred on
different continents — maize in America, sorghum in
Africa, wheat in the Near East, and rice in both Africa and
Asia—the possibility that mutations in some correspondinggenes may have been selected (e.g. see
[3,4]) is ageneral reflection of the many structural and functional parallels that appear to have persisted since the divergence of these lineages.


Just part of the article as it would bore the tears out of anyone who didn't love evolutionary biology. Humans were eating cereal grains before 8000 years ago. They would have started to cultivate them as they figured out HOW to, and as they were eating them already.

There was something bugging me about that 8000 years thing, as I knew from studying evolutionary botany that the angiosperms evolved far before that, in fact one theory of the demise of the dinosaurs is the rise of the angiosperms. Well a contributing factor!

x
x
x
T

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Old 14-05-2006, 08:35 PM   #10 (permalink)
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So % of energy is today's percentages

TABLE 1 Food and food types found in Western diets generally unavailable to preagricultural hominins1
Food or food groupValue

Dairy products% of energy2
Whole milk1.6
Low-fat milk2.1
Cheese3.2
Butter1.1
Other2.6
Total10.6
Cereal grains
Whole grains3.5
Refined grains20.4
Total23.9
Refined sugars
Sucrose8.0
High-fructose corn syrup7.8
Glucose2.6
Syrups0.1
Other0.1
Total18.6
Refined vegetable oils
Salad, cooking oils8.8
Shortening6.6
Margarine2.2
Total17.6
Alcohol1.4
Total energy72.1
Added salt, as sodium chloride9.63

1 Data adapted from references 22-24.
2 In the US diet.
3 Salt from processed foods, table salt use, and cooking; in g/d.
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Old 14-05-2006, 08:37 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Part of another article

American Journal of Clinical Nutrition, Vol. 81, No. 2, 341-354, February 2005
© 2005 American Society for Clinical Nutrition

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

COMMENTARY

Origins and evolution of the Western diet: health implications for the 21st century1,2
Loren Cordain, S Boyd Eaton, Anthony Sebastian, Neil Mann, Staffan Lindeberg, Bruce A Watkins, James H O’Keefe and Janette Brand-Miller
1 From the Department of Health and Exercise Science, Colorado State University, Fort Collins (LC); the Departments of Radiology and Anthropology, Emory University, Atlanta (SBE); the Department of Medicine and UCSF/Moffitt General Clinical Research Center, University of California, San Francisco (AS); the Department of Food Science, RMIT University, Melbourne, Australia (NM); the Department of Medicine, Lund University, Sweden (SL); the Department of Food Science, Lipid Chemistry and Molecular Biology Laboratory, Purdue University, West Lafayette, IN (BAW); the Mid America Heart Institute, Cardiovascular Consultants, Kansas City, MO (JHO); and the Human Nutrition Unit, Department of Biochemistry, University of Sydney, Australia (JB-M)

2 Address reprint requests to L Cordain, Department of Health and Exercise Science, Colorado State University, Fort Collins, CO 80523. E-mail: cordain@cahs.colostate.edu





Cereals
Because wild cereal grains are usually small, difficult to harvest, and minimally digestible without processing (grinding) and cooking, the appearance of stone processing tools in the fossil record represents a reliable indication of when and where cultures systematically began to include cereal grains in their diet (
7). Ground stone mortars, bowls, and cup holes first appeared in the Upper Paleolithic (from 40000 y ago to 12000 y ago) (29), whereas the regular exploitation of cereal grains by any worldwide hunter-gatherer group arose with the emergence of the Natufian culture in the Levant 13000 BP (30). Domestication of emmer and einkorn wheat by the descendants of the Natufians heralded the beginnings of early agriculture and occurred by 10–11000 BP from strains of wild wheat localized to southeastern Turkey (31). During the ensuing Holocene (10000 y ago until the present), cereal grains were rarely consumed as year round staples by most worldwide hunter-gatherers (32, 33), except by certain groups living in arid and marginal environments (32, 34).

In Table 1, it is shown that 85.3% of the cereals consumed in the current US diet are highly processed refined grains. Preceding the Industrial Revolution, all cereals were ground with the use of stone milling tools, and unless the flour was sieved, it contained the entire contents of the cereal grain, including the germ, bran, and endosperm (35). With the invention of mechanized steel roller mills and automated sifting devices in the latter part of the 19th century (35), the nutritional characteristics of milled grain changed significantly because the germ and bran were removed in the milling process, leaving flour comprised mainly of endosperm of uniformly small particulate size (35, 36). Accordingly, the widespread consumption of highly refined grain flours of uniformly small particulate size represents a recent secular phenomenon dating to the past 150–200 y (35).

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Old 15-05-2006, 10:28 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Am loving the advice from both Scott & Tatyana! Trying to take this all in and getting most of it, but turning it into diet?

Starting just over a year ago, trying to get the perfect diet and workouts it seems the more i read the more my brain struggles!

Trying to gain muscle mass I currently eat 50%Carbs, 30%Protein, 15%Fats. Obviously everyone has there own opinion on diet but this is the percentages ive decided on from my research!

A diet of 50% Carbs equats to 1800-2000calories! I just dont see how I can get this many good carb cals?

To get the protien I need I use carbs as a base, such as bread, pasta, rice, pitta & protein shakes to supplement extra protien! (A palm size of carbs, fist size of protein!)!

But these carbs still spike my insulin levels, so how can i get good protein & carbs without these foods!

6 Meals a day is my usual! sometimes 8 sometimes 4! I guesse im asking for someone to tell me the perfect diet, make it easy for me so i have no options! This is the way! But i know its never that simple!

I appreciate any advice/comments, i beleive learning/education is the key to sucess more than anything else!
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Old 15-05-2006, 11:17 PM   #13 (permalink)
My name is EARL
 
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Ok one thing that both Scott and I DO agree on (we are getting better at the tag team thing), refined carbs are not really eating CLEAN.

SO if you are used to eating loads of white bread and pasta, switch to brown first (proper brown, NOT fake colored brown).

I am going to have to go to Tescos and get some names of decent breads, I only have it a week after a comp as cheats now. AND an occasional peshwari naan with a cheat meal.

RICE, brown basmati has the lowest GI.

I am also big on the underutilised whole grains, AND I am going to have to check this out as it was a bit I saw in wikipedia, it says NOT really grains like