Help needed with next phase of cardio - UK-Muscle Body Building Community

Keyser Soze · 20-07-2006, 12:32 AM

Hi all,

As some of you already know my goal is to burn the maximum flab off my 44" waist for the minimum loss of muscle mass. A few months back I could barely do 10 minutes on the rower, a friend advised me to get that up to an hour by adding a few minutes every workout, with a 1 minute rest every 3-5 minutes. I have done this, but I've lost contact with him, so I I don't know how to progress from here. I'm clueless about this heart rate thing, but I find myself starting strong, and slowing very gradually throughout the hour.

Now, from what I hear this HIIT thing is pretty damn good at burning flab and actually helps when bulking too.

Ok - what do I need to do, cardio-wise, to get from here to that 32" waist I dream about?

1) What device can display my heart rate and where in the UK do I buy it - if I need it?

2) What do I need to do to graduate from here to HIIT? My guess would be to start phasing out the rest periods at the beginning of my workout until I'm not resting at all, but I don't know - you guys are the experts!!

3) I hear drinking coffee before cardio is good - is this true, and is there anything else (that's safe!) I can do to make the cardio burn more fat?

Thanks in advance for the solutions!

KS

**big** · 20-07-2006, 12:34 AM

Just fix your diet dude.

Cardio is for your heart and fitness levels.

Diet is for your bodyfat.

The exception is if you're at (say) 8-10% bodyfat and want to get lower, in which case you need all the help you can get.

Keyser Soze · 20-07-2006, 01:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by big

Just fix your diet dude.

Cardio is for your heart and fitness levels.

Diet is for your bodyfat.

The exception is if you're at (say) 8-10% bodyfat and want to get lower, in which case you need all the help you can get.

Man, my diet isn't bad, I made a mistake putting this in the diet section.

Could you or the mods please move this out to the bodybuilding section?

That'd be appreciated,

KS

leeston · 20-07-2006, 11:30 AM

I will leave the cardio side to the other guys has I do very minimal.

However, I am aware that you can monitor your heart rate via a watch. The prices range from about £20 - 150. They can be basic as a simple watch with the sensor on the back (against your wrist) or wirelessly via a belt on your waist. You can get them at Boots, Argos and similar places.

Stone · 20-07-2006, 12:28 PM

How have you calculated your calorie intake for cutting?

What cardio are you doing at the moment? Does time allow you to do 2 cardio sessions a day? For example half hour to fourty five mins brisk walk/jog on empty stomach after waking then half an hour to fourty five mins in early evening same pace as morning.

Also, cardio 'and' an organised diet will shed that fat a hell of alot quicker than just have a super strict diet.

44" waist is pretty big and I assume your obviously a very big guy so I wouldnt recommend HIIT for now.

Peg · 20-07-2006, 03:30 PM

Good post, Stone!

Understanding Your Training Heart Rate
by: Vicki R. Pierson, ACE Certified Personal Trainer

Your training heart rate zone is a critical element in exercise. Taking your pulse and figuring your heart rate during a workout is one of the primary indicators in ascertaining the intensity level at which you and your heart is working. There are many ways to measure exercise intensity. The Karvonen Formula is one of most effective methods used to determine your heart rate. The Ratings of Perceived Exertion and Talk Test methods are subjective measurements that can be used in addition to taking a pulse.

The Karvonen Formula
This is a heart rate reserve formula and it’s one of the most effective methods used to calculate training heart rate. The formula factors in your resting heart rate, therefore, you’ll need to determine your resting heart rate by doing the following:

Prior to getting out of bed in the morning, take your pulse on your wrist (radial pulse) or on the side of your neck (carotid pulse).

Count the number of beats, starting with zero, for one minute. If you don’t have a stop watch or a second hand in your bedroom, you can measure the time by watching for the number to change on a digital alarm clock. Find your pulse and start counting when the minute number changes the first time, stop counting when it changes again.

To help assure accuracy, take your resting heart rate three mornings in a row and average the 3 heart rates together.
Another element in finding your training heart rate zone is determining the intensity level at which you should exercise. As a general rule, you should exercise at an intensity between 50% - 85% of your heart rate reserve. Your individual level of fitness will ultimately determine where you fall within this range. Use the following table as a guide for determining your intensity level:

Beginner or low fitness level . . .50% - 60%
Average fitness level . . . . . . . . 60% - 70%
High fitness level . . . . . . . . . . . 75% - 85%

Now that we’ve determined and gathered the information needed, we can pull the information together in the Karvonen Formula:

220 - Age = Maximum Heart Rate
Max Heart Rate - Rest. Heart Rate x Intensity + Rest. Heart Rate = Training Heart Rate

For example, Sally is 33 yrs old, has a resting heart rate of 75 and she’s just beginning her exercise program (her intensity level will be 50% - 60%.) Sally’s training heart rate zone will be 131-142 beats per minute:

Sally's Minimum Training Heart Rate:
220 - 33 (Age) = 187
187 - 75 (Rest. HR) = 112
112 x .50 (Min. Intensity) + 75 (Rest. HR) = 131 Beats/Minute

Sally's Maximum Training Heart Rate:
220 - 33 (Age) = 187
187 - 75 (Rest. HR) = 112
112 x .60 (Max. Intensity) + 75 (Rest. HR) = 142 Beats/Minute

Periodically, take your pulse during your exercise session to gauge your intensity level.
Typically, the easiest location for taking a pulse is on the side of your neck, the carotid pulse. Be sure not to press too hard on the carotid artery or you’ll get an inaccurate reading.

Count the number of beats, always beginning with zero, for 6 seconds (then multiply by 10), or for 10 seconds (then multiply by 6) to get the number of times your heart is beating per minute.

If your pulse is within your training heart rate zone, you’re right on track! If not, adjust your exercise workload until you get into your zone.

Stone · 20-07-2006, 09:49 PM

are those silver bits on the cardio machines accurate for reading bpm?

Peg · 20-07-2006, 10:26 PM

I'm not sure as I've never used them. I've just always taken my carotid pulse myself.

KS: Did you see this thread in this forum?
Cardio heart rate

wiseguy83 · 20-07-2006, 11:24 PM

1) What device can display my heart rate and where in the UK do I buy it - if I need it?dont worry to much about heart rate just keep the diet clean and drop yer carbs as the day goes on try not to take any carbs in after 7.30pm dont get to technical with all that sh1t just train hard.

3) I hear drinking coffee before cardio is good - is this true, and is there anything else (that's safe!) I can do to make the cardio burn more fat?yes it worked for me i drank 3 cups a day of black coffee have one half hour befor cardio with a couple of fat-stripers do cardio early mornin on empty belly for 30-45mins and repeat befor bed.forget heart rate just keep bangin the cardio in with the weight training and diet hard you will soon see yourself comming down each week.remember they dint have all these fancy machines years ago and them bodybuilders back then had nice small taperd waists keep it simple.good look mate.

**hackskii** · 21-07-2006, 12:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by big

Just fix your diet dude.

Cardio is for your heart and fitness levels.

Diet is for your bodyfat.

The exception is if you're at (say) 8-10% bodyfat and want to get lower, in which case you need all the help you can get.

Spot on here Big....................
Diet for fat loss, works by far the best.

Stone · 21-07-2006, 09:18 AM

Dont know about you guys but I would rather keep my calories up and do cardio rather than do minimal cardio and keeping cals very low. I mean cardio doesnt only use fat for energy whilst you are doing but it also rasies your metabolic rate for hours after so the combination of both is crucial.

Especially having a 44 inch waist, no doubt hell be able to sweat some of that water weight off through cycling, walking etc

You dont have to do such intense cardio, thats where peoples mistake is. Its the pace which is important as well, the difference between the 'fat burning' stage and cardiovascular stage. The best thing I would recommend is to brisk/walk or jog changing speed or incline every 3-5 mins, do this for 45mins 3 x a week, along with am cardio and an organised diet, which Keyser has already mentioned he has got and please, just trust me, the weight will come off in the matter of a few months!

Its up to you though, plenty of sound advice has come from the other guys, but speaking as ex chubby lad, this is what worked.

Peg · 21-07-2006, 11:43 AM

I agree with you Stone, just as you said is what I did. I prefer the higher calories, I don't feel like I'm starving myself even if there foods 6X a day. Portion control was key for me to maintain and build better eating habits all around and still lose weight. The cardio helped we overcome any bumps in the road.

**hackskii** · 21-07-2006, 07:45 PM

If diet got you into the mess you are in (overweight), why not use diet to get you out of the very mess you got your self into with diet?

It makes no sense to me to try to run off what food put on.
Walking for a half hour might burn 200 calories.
One slice of pizza is more than that.
1 soda would be that high.

Funny thing about cardio is it does not burn the fat people think it does.
Resistance training on the other hand will burn more fat for longer than cardio, up to 3 days fat burning with resistance training.

Not only that but resistance training raises HGH and testosterone, cardio does not unless the intensity is very high.

Look at long distance runners compared to sprinters.
I dont fall for that fat burning zone actually.

I lost 25 lbs and 6.5" on my waist with diet alone and zero cardio. I did do resistance training though.

Shoot for 1-2 lbs a week and this is diet controlled.

Captain Hero · 21-07-2006, 08:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hackskii

If diet got you into the mess you are in (overweight), why not use diet to get you out of the very mess you got your self into with diet?

It makes no sense to me to try to run off what food put on.
Walking for a half hour might burn 200 calories.
One slice of pizza is more than that.
1 soda would be that high.

Funny thing about cardio is it does not burn the fat people think it does.
Resistance training on the other hand will burn more fat for longer than cardio, up to 3 days fat burning with resistance training.

Not only that but resistance training raises HGH and testosterone, cardio does not unless the intensity is very high.

Look at long distance runners compared to sprinters.
I dont fall for that fat burning zone actually.

I lost 25 lbs and 6.5" on my waist with diet alone and zero cardio. I did do resistance training though.

Shoot for 1-2 lbs a week and this is diet controlled.

Top post. Not only that but Im sure I have heard male marathon runners have a lot less testosterone than a sprinter would.

also heard that Vince Gironda wasnt down with doing any kind of running for cardio, but Cookie will probably clarify this.

Keyser Soze · 23-07-2006, 09:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stone

Dont know about you guys but I would rather keep my calories up and do cardio rather than do minimal cardio and keeping cals very low. I mean cardio doesnt only use fat for energy whilst you are doing but it also rasies your metabolic rate for hours after so the combination of both is crucial.

Especially having a 44 inch waist, no doubt hell be able to sweat some of that water weight off through cycling, walking etc

You dont have to do such intense cardio, thats where peoples mistake is. Its the pace which is important as well, the difference between the 'fat burning' stage and cardiovascular stage. The best thing I would recommend is to brisk/walk or jog changing speed or incline every 3-5 mins, do this for 45mins 3 x a week, along with am cardio and an organised diet, which Keyser has already mentioned he has got

It's not as well-organised as I need, it seems - I should be calorie counting, but at the mo I don't have a clue as to how many cals I take in, how many I need, how many constitutes a deficit of 2Ibs a week, what proportion of cals are coming from protein/fats/carbs, all I'm doing is eating oats in the morning, and turkey breast/veg/salad every 2.5 hours after...and for all I know I could be taking in FAR too much oats/turkey!!!

I've got to button this whole business down and start counting, I fear I've been oversimplifying it this whole time and inadvertantly overeating, just a small tweak but it makes the difference between an excess of 100 cals and a deficit of 500...

Quote:

and please, just trust me, the weight will come off in the matter of a few months!

Don't doubt it for a second mate, I did a quick cut in December and the waistline receded so fast about 3 people noticed by the end of week 2, but haven't repeated it.

This is going to stop - the fat is coming off, one way or the other.

KS

20-07-2006, 12:32 AM	#1 (permalink)
Keyser Soze Banned Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Harrow, London, England. Posts: 729	Help needed with next phase of cardio Hi all, As some of you already know my goal is to burn the maximum flab off my 44" waist for the minimum loss of muscle mass. A few months back I could barely do 10 minutes on the rower, a friend advised me to get that up to an hour by adding a few minutes every workout, with a 1 minute rest every 3-5 minutes. I have done this, but I've lost contact with him, so I I don't know how to progress from here. I'm clueless about this heart rate thing, but I find myself starting strong, and slowing very gradually throughout the hour. Now, from what I hear this HIIT thing is pretty damn good at burning flab and actually helps when bulking too. Ok - what do I need to do, cardio-wise, to get from here to that 32" waist I dream about? 1) What device can display my heart rate and where in the UK do I buy it - if I need it? 2) What do I need to do to graduate from here to HIIT? My guess would be to start phasing out the rest periods at the beginning of my workout until I'm not resting at all, but I don't know - you guys are the experts!! 3) I hear drinking coffee before cardio is good - is this true, and is there anything else (that's safe!) I can do to make the cardio burn more fat? Thanks in advance for the solutions! KS

20-07-2006, 03:30 PM	#6 (permalink)
Peg Getting HUGE! Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 1,467	Calculating Heart Rate Good post, Stone! Understanding Your Training Heart Rate by: Vicki R. Pierson, ACE Certified Personal Trainer Your training heart rate zone is a critical element in exercise. Taking your pulse and figuring your heart rate during a workout is one of the primary indicators in ascertaining the intensity level at which you and your heart is working. There are many ways to measure exercise intensity. The Karvonen Formula is one of most effective methods used to determine your heart rate. The Ratings of Perceived Exertion and Talk Test methods are subjective measurements that can be used in addition to taking a pulse. The Karvonen Formula This is a heart rate reserve formula and it’s one of the most effective methods used to calculate training heart rate. The formula factors in your resting heart rate, therefore, you’ll need to determine your resting heart rate by doing the following: Prior to getting out of bed in the morning, take your pulse on your wrist (radial pulse) or on the side of your neck (carotid pulse). Count the number of beats, starting with zero, for one minute. If you don’t have a stop watch or a second hand in your bedroom, you can measure the time by watching for the number to change on a digital alarm clock. Find your pulse and start counting when the minute number changes the first time, stop counting when it changes again. To help assure accuracy, take your resting heart rate three mornings in a row and average the 3 heart rates together. Another element in finding your training heart rate zone is determining the intensity level at which you should exercise. As a general rule, you should exercise at an intensity between 50% - 85% of your heart rate reserve. Your individual level of fitness will ultimately determine where you fall within this range. Use the following table as a guide for determining your intensity level: Beginner or low fitness level . . .50% - 60% Average fitness level . . . . . . . . 60% - 70% High fitness level . . . . . . . . . . . 75% - 85% Now that we’ve determined and gathered the information needed, we can pull the information together in the Karvonen Formula: 220 - Age = Maximum Heart Rate Max Heart Rate - Rest. Heart Rate x Intensity + Rest. Heart Rate = Training Heart Rate For example, Sally is 33 yrs old, has a resting heart rate of 75 and she’s just beginning her exercise program (her intensity level will be 50% - 60%.) Sally’s training heart rate zone will be 131-142 beats per minute: Sally's Minimum Training Heart Rate: 220 - 33 (Age) = 187 187 - 75 (Rest. HR) = 112 112 x .50 (Min. Intensity) + 75 (Rest. HR) = 131 Beats/Minute Sally's Maximum Training Heart Rate: 220 - 33 (Age) = 187 187 - 75 (Rest. HR) = 112 112 x .60 (Max. Intensity) + 75 (Rest. HR) = 142 Beats/Minute Periodically, take your pulse during your exercise session to gauge your intensity level. Typically, the easiest location for taking a pulse is on the side of your neck, the carotid pulse. Be sure not to press too hard on the carotid artery or you’ll get an inaccurate reading. Count the number of beats, always beginning with zero, for 6 seconds (then multiply by 10), or for 10 seconds (then multiply by 6) to get the number of times your heart is beating per minute. If your pulse is within your training heart rate zone, you’re right on track! If not, adjust your exercise workload until you get into your zone. Last edited by Peg; 20-07-2006 at 03:38 PM.

20-07-2006, 10:26 PM	#8 (permalink)
Peg Getting HUGE! Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 1,467	I'm not sure as I've never used them. I've just always taken my carotid pulse myself. KS: Did you see this thread in this forum? Cardio heart rate Last edited by Peg; 20-07-2006 at 10:35 PM.

20-07-2006, 12:34 AM	#2 (permalink)
big UK-Muscle Moderator Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: The only side effect of steroids is GREATNESS Posts: 5,511	Just fix your diet dude. Cardio is for your heart and fitness levels. Diet is for your bodyfat. The exception is if you're at (say) 8-10% bodyfat and want to get lower, in which case you need all the help you can get.

20-07-2006, 11:30 AM	#4 (permalink)
leeston Any more chicken and I will start clucking!! Join Date: May 2006 Location: Birmingham, West Midlandshire Posts: 2,400	I will leave the cardio side to the other guys has I do very minimal. However, I am aware that you can monitor your heart rate via a watch. The prices range from about £20 - 150. They can be basic as a simple watch with the sensor on the back (against your wrist) or wirelessly via a belt on your waist. You can get them at Boots, Argos and similar places.

20-07-2006, 12:28 PM	#5 (permalink)
Stone Gym Addict Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 213	How have you calculated your calorie intake for cutting? What cardio are you doing at the moment? Does time allow you to do 2 cardio sessions a day? For example half hour to fourty five mins brisk walk/jog on empty stomach after waking then half an hour to fourty five mins in early evening same pace as morning. Also, cardio 'and' an organised diet will shed that fat a hell of alot quicker than just have a super strict diet. 44" waist is pretty big and I assume your obviously a very big guy so I wouldnt recommend HIIT for now.

20-07-2006, 09:49 PM	#7 (permalink)
Stone Gym Addict Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 213	are those silver bits on the cardio machines accurate for reading bpm?

20-07-2006, 11:24 PM	#9 (permalink)
wiseguy83 Banned Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 273	1) What device can display my heart rate and where in the UK do I buy it - if I need it?dont worry to much about heart rate just keep the diet clean and drop yer carbs as the day goes on try not to take any carbs in after 7.30pm dont get to technical with all that sh1t just train hard. 3) I hear drinking coffee before cardio is good - is this true, and is there anything else (that's safe!) I can do to make the cardio burn more fat?yes it worked for me i drank 3 cups a day of black coffee have one half hour befor cardio with a couple of fat-stripers do cardio early mornin on empty belly for 30-45mins and repeat befor bed.forget heart rate just keep bangin the cardio in with the weight training and diet hard you will soon see yourself comming down each week.remember they dint have all these fancy machines years ago and them bodybuilders back then had nice small taperd waists keep it simple.good look mate.

21-07-2006, 09:18 AM	#11 (permalink)
Stone Gym Addict Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 213	Dont know about you guys but I would rather keep my calories up and do cardio rather than do minimal cardio and keeping cals very low. I mean cardio doesnt only use fat for energy whilst you are doing but it also rasies your metabolic rate for hours after so the combination of both is crucial. Especially having a 44 inch waist, no doubt hell be able to sweat some of that water weight off through cycling, walking etc You dont have to do such intense cardio, thats where peoples mistake is. Its the pace which is important as well, the difference between the 'fat burning' stage and cardiovascular stage. The best thing I would recommend is to brisk/walk or jog changing speed or incline every 3-5 mins, do this for 45mins 3 x a week, along with am cardio and an organised diet, which Keyser has already mentioned he has got and please, just trust me, the weight will come off in the matter of a few months! Its up to you though, plenty of sound advice has come from the other guys, but speaking as ex chubby lad, this is what worked.

21-07-2006, 11:43 AM	#12 (permalink)
Peg Getting HUGE! Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 1,467	I agree with you Stone, just as you said is what I did. I prefer the higher calories, I don't feel like I'm starving myself even if there foods 6X a day. Portion control was key for me to maintain and build better eating habits all around and still lose weight. The cardio helped we overcome any bumps in the road.

21-07-2006, 07:45 PM	#13 (permalink)
hackskii UK-Muscle Moderator Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Sunny Southern California U.S.A. Posts: 24,337	If diet got you into the mess you are in (overweight), why not use diet to get you out of the very mess you got your self into with diet? It makes no sense to me to try to run off what food put on. Walking for a half hour might burn 200 calories. One slice of pizza is more than that. 1 soda would be that high. Funny thing about cardio is it does not burn the fat people think it does. Resistance training on the other hand will burn more fat for longer than cardio, up to 3 days fat burning with resistance training. Not only that but resistance training raises HGH and testosterone, cardio does not unless the intensity is very high. Look at long distance runners compared to sprinters. I dont fall for that fat burning zone actually. I lost 25 lbs and 6.5" on my waist with diet alone and zero cardio. I did do resistance training though. Shoot for 1-2 lbs a week and this is diet controlled.