wes

i have added 12lbs in the last 4 weeks. my goal is to add another 12lbs in the next 4 weeks. After that i plan to loose fat and keep muscle in a 2-3 weeks period. my current diet is below

breakfast - cereal & whey shake with milk (60g protein)
mid morning - chicken & rice (30g protein)
lunch - chicken & rice(30g protein)
dinner - chicken or beef (30g protein) with veg & potatoes or pasta
after dinner - high calorie shake (50g protein 1250 calories)
evening - lean burger (20g protein) or low fat rice pudding(14g protein) & high calorie shake (50g protein 1600calories),

on workout days, i dont have the breakfast shake. instead i have a whey shake (30g protein) before the gym. then straight after i have another with (60g protein). how do i change this diet to lean out. i was thinking of using a fat burner.

any suggestions welcome

Tinytom

1250 calorie shake!!!

thats a lot to have in the evening. I'd have that first thing.

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wes

1250 after dinner 1600 in the evening

Tinytom

oh that's alright then LMAO

1250 cals is too much for one shake, especially after a meal.

Only 50g of that is protein which means that 1050 cals are coming from other sources. Even with 200g of carbs you're still left with 250 cals presumably from fat.

Not the best thing to have at any time. Just a recipe for getting fat not building muscle.

If anything I would split that shake up into 2 servings.

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wes

ok correct me if i'm wrong but i thought the idea was to have lots of calories & lots of protein. You put on muscle & fat then you get rid of the fat and keep the muscle. If i get rid of the shake where do i get the calories from.

Tinytom

why do you want to put on fat?

Muslce should be your goal.

Old style ways of bulking up with loads of calories are outdated.

High protein and moderate carb intake is the best way.

Protein is the only thing that builds muscle, if you are fatter you have more insulin receptors on your fat cells and you can get even fatter, higher muscle:fat ratio gives more receptors on the muscles you can get bigger.

Getting fat is a lazy man's way of bulking up and completely ineefective at building muscle.

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wes

I don't want to put on fat. I just thought it was part of bulking up. After bulking, you burn the fat to show the muscle. Anyway, if you you look at my diet i'm Consuming 280g protein, more than 1.5 times my body weight, 75g fat, less than 0.5 times my weight and 380g carbs. It seems to be working for me. Now any cutting advice for me?

Tinytom

OK mate

Post some pics of you and I'll advise.

Unless you are using GH and T3 that diet you outlined is a recipe for fat storage and no bulking does mean putting fat on.

Yes a competitive bodybuilder will gain fat in the off season but thats from a competition perspective. They will always stay at about 10-12% bodyfat in the off season (if they are at the top of their game)

Sorry but that diet is not a good one. You're talking about having a 1250 and 1600 calorie shake AFTER a meal. The body can simply not accomodate that as useful fuel and will store it as fat.

I think if you cut out the 'high calorie shakes' and had a protein shake of 40g protein and minimal fat/carbs you'd get better results.

Rest of your diet looks OK to me.

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LondonGeezer

thats the weight gainer 1200 isn't it.. lol ive got that stuff 1250 calories p/shake..its mad 4 massive scoops (or three).

cut that out if u dont want to get fat becos u will with that stuff.. just take a look at my belly lollll.

why not use a protein whey blend 100% whey.. £28-32.99 tub and its 29.4g scoop p/serving and u get 24g protein out of that..

wes

Yeah its mammoth 2500. First time i tried it i had a snooze on the couch afterwards. Anyway, i've finished the tub now but i'll take the advice and change. I'll add in another two high protein low carb shakes instead.
Thanks.

Five-O

not so m8, let me put it this way, im nearly sure you've put a lot of fat and water on in 4 weeks (if you haven't then i apologise) but your eating far too many calories to do any good, the best way to bulk is by eating slightly above your maintenace cals, gettin rid of stubborn fat can be hard and time consuming and basically your wasting time. As a natural trainer a lot of ppl will be lucky to put on 8-10lbs a yr if there an intermediate or advanced trainer, it can come on pretty quickly if your new to lifting and youngish but you gonna gain tons of fat and very little muscle with that diet in a short space of time. Muscle takes time to grow unless where chemically enhanced whereby the process is speeded up, as for cutting, you need plenty of lean protein (food ideally, noty shakes) add in there quality fats like fish oils/peanut butter and flax oil/almonds, when cutting you need to regulate your carb intake and stick to low GI ones like Brown rice/wholewheat pasta/oats/oatmeal

sample

meal 1: 6egg white 2 whole eggs/1 cup oats

meal 2: shake/almonds or flax/PB

meal 3: Lean protein/brown rice or pasta

Meal 4: PWO - shake with dextrose 50g pro/75-100g dex

Meal 5: same as meal 3

Meal 6: before bed is important: casein protein or some lean protein with some fats in there like PB/flax/ salmon would be good here


You could also do with 3 portions of veg in there somewhere, this isn't gospel and a few will prolly disagree but with cardio in there and maybe a fatburner you should lose weight and retain muscle, you need to work out your cals for cutting, slightly below maintenace for this to work

wes

Thanks for the reply five 0. I stopped going to the gym june 2005 because of 2 broken bones in my hand. I only started back properly about 10 weeks ago. so you could say i'm new. Thanks for the diet tips. My plan is to cut the carbs, increase the protein and start the cardio along with a fat burner. The advice i get from most people is that you won't build bigger muscle with just protein. Lots of calories are needed. But your way does sound logical. What does just above maintenance mean, 100, 200 extra cals.

Five-O

you want to be gunning for 500 cals above your maintenance cals, say if you need 3000calories a day to just keep at the same weight, then you need 500 calories more to roughly gain 1lb a week (in theory)

you need to make up your mind whether cutting/bulking b/c unless your using gear then your gonna drop weight and only gain a small amount of muscle if any at all. If cutting and doing cardio and using a fatburner then id eat maintenance calories as the extra cardio and fatburner will do the rest, you can cut and not do any cardio if your one of the lucky ones, my m8 cuts without cardio and looks awesome, he just drop his calories. So much can be done with calorie manipulation

What ppl mean by not being able to build muscle with protein alone is correct, its the quality carbs we eat that make us look fuller and gain bodyweight, to obviously add bodyweight your gonna need to eat over your daily maintenance calories, that doesn't mean eating over by 1,000's b/c its possible unless you've a metabolism like a furnace that you'll put on fat. I think IMO its best to clean bulk - id rather put on 6-8lbs a year rather than double that and have to **** around cutting down the fat

If you want any more advice by all means PM me b/c i could end up going on forever here! there's also from what ive seena wealth of experience on this board, its always best to ask around and get the best opinions. All the best

Five-O

Cutting carbs will possibly make you look flat so your gonna have to see what amount suits you best, keep your meals either protein/fat or protein/carbs - try not to mix all 3

Tinytom

You won't build muscle with just protein but that is the only thing that builds it.

Therefore your goal should be

1. A surplus of protein 1.5-2g per lb bodyweight per day

2. Adequate carbs for energy to fuel workouts

3. Good balance of fats to stabilise hormone levels.

Following this simple rule of thumb will facilitate gains but only trial and error will determine your levels.

For me the levels are

1. 350g protein a day

2. 300g carbs a day

3. 10+ g of supplemental fats per day

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BIG-UNC

good posts gents!

very very helpful!!