AussieMarc

Just thought I would move the debate in here instead of hijacking the poor soul's thread in the Getting Started section I believe it was.

Lets kick it off shall we?

My beliefs is that you do indeed need an average amount of carbs in your diet, not only to keep your glycogen at a high but also to include important fibre, minerals, and vitamins found in fruits and vegies. A lack of fibre in your diet can actually cause constipation. There was an extreme case where an instructor from my course is actually a doctor. He had a patient that was so constipated from the lack of fibre in his diet for a whole 2 or 3 weeks. He ended up having a peice of squishy brown stuff come out of his mouth because it was so clogged up. He ended up spewing it out as your body would to get it out whatever way possible. High fibreous foods encourage bowel movement and I would encourage that as much as possible..

Now on another issue entirely - losing weight. Low carb (aka Atkins etc) diets have the idea that you depleat your body of glycogen (an important energy source) to start using another source of energy - Fat. Yes this is true, but if you deplete your body of carbs you will not have the most sufficient energy source in your body, yes the adherementioned - glycogen.

IMO << Smiley says its alright!

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Magic Torch

I thought we had a diet section?

Really who would have thought that? I thought it just turned your **** a funny colour

I dont really get this thread?

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Pscarb

Who decides what is considered Moderate or Low when it comes to carbs?

To say that you HAVE to eat a moderate amount of carbs is wrong!!
We are all different and what works for one does not work for others..take me for example i diet using Low carb days of 0g and these make up most of the week because i know my body and know that by replacing Cals lost from Carbs with Cals from Essential Fats i feel fine and because i use Fibre supps and eat alot of Veg then constipation is not a problem..
i know of some bodybuilders who eat 3x as much carbs as i do on the low day and suffer more does that mean they eat Moderate or Low carbs?

now i do agree with the fact that the Atkins diet is no good for long term health but do work for fat loss..

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AussieMarc

It is preventing the hijack of a thread in the getting started section. Just tried to move it here and shoot it off with a sort of opening argument :P

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AussieMarc

As said in my last post mate.. This is just moving the argument to this thread rather then a hijack.. Sorry I wasn't exactly clear on what i meant - For the average joe who is trying to lose weight, a low carb diet is / is not the best idea. It's in reference to the other thread mate...

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Pscarb

i understand why you have started the thread mate and i am pleased you have...

but still even from a average Joe piont of veiw who decides what is Low and what is a Moderate amount of carbs?? this is a question to all...

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AussieMarc

Sorry for the misunderstanding.. Moderate - a fairly balanced diet with equal carbs as there are protein and fats. Low - a low carb diet (like atkins or equivilent) where there is a considerable low amount of carbs in the diet.

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Pscarb

yes but as i have said before what works for one does not work for others....

Their are 2 guys both are 200lbs both train at a gym 4 times per week.

Man A has a high metabolism and can maintain his current weight by eating 3500cals per day most of this being made up from Carbs
200g Protein
500g Carbs
the rest from fats

Man B has a slower metabolism and to maintain his body weight he need only 2200cals
200g protein
200g Carbs
70g Fats

so these two guys are the same weight but what Man B calls high carbs ManA considers it moderate..
where as what ManB considers moderate ManA considers low.....

so my point is no one can say that Low carb diets don't work for the average Joe because no one can determine what is Low carb....

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Magic Torch

Ok cool I just found it in the general section and I was a bit lost!

Though my thought would be that a low carb diet could benifit weight lose, but this would only be a temp change. The term diet is used wrong IMO, as people 'go on a diet' to lose weight for the summer hols or a wedding, but then after the weight is lost they will revert back to eating a high carb diet, and gain the weight back. For me my diet is the way I eat not what I eat and I belive ppl who 'deit' for weight lose should be educated to eat healthy rather than fad diets that they wont use long term. I vary my diet between bulking and cutting but my carb levels stay high as I have a high meta rate so I need my carbs to keep my energy up, but my protien levels change.

It is all dependant on the person.

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crazycacti

I'm 225 lbs atm and cutting...

I'm eating around 2000 - 2100 cals a day and only loosing between 1lb to 1 1/2 lbs per week - averaging about 1 lb

I'd say thats a pretty low metabolism...

I wouldn't like to go any lower than 250g protein when dieting - and i'd like really to keep it up to 300g

300g protein = 1200 cals

i only have 900 left and i feel that low fat isn't too good for you so lets say i eat 60g fat

60g fat = 540 cals

I've got 360 cals left to come from carbs... which is only 90g

some people might also say 90g carbs with 60g fat isn't too good and the fat ratio should be higher because your carbs are pretty low...

i normally hit 50g of carbs a day atm with 250-300g protein and the reast of the cals in good fats and feel fine on it - 2 twice a week i'll have a high carb day with one being very high carb and low fat to reset myself

IMO my carbs look low because my cals are too low to have a high/moderate carb diet - just like Paul says in a previous post - people who have to eat more can afford more carbs

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Insulin Spikes? Glycemic Index? Just ask Timmy Smooth...

'Well I've just downed 4 Iceland sausage rolls and my arms are shaking like an epilectic on a bucking bronco.'

Tatyana

Basic stuff taken from Burn the Fat Feed the Muscle

1 g carbs = 4 kcals

1 g protein = 4 kcals

1 g fat = 9 kcals

After sorting out your daily intake, you have to work out the percentage of each of the macronutrients

So for carbohydrates:

Very High carbs = 65-7-% +

High carbs = 55-60 %

Moderate carbs = 40-50 %

Low carbs = 25-30%

Very low carb (ketogenic) = 5-15 % or 30- 70 grams carbs per day

Pscarb

This would only suit only a few people thoughb ecause i would consider 40-50% carbs very high and 25-30% moderate.

So like i keep saying there is no one rule that fits all the best rule that applies is to start with something like above then adjust accordingly and be flexable.

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Tatyana

I think that most people will lose fat by adding regular exercise (resistance AND cardio) to their routine and by 'cleaning up' their diets. A 'clean' diet means that you've mastered all the nutritional basics like eating small frequent meals, controlling portion sizes, cutting down on saturated fats, avoiding sugar, drinking plenty of water and eating lean protein at every meal.

Moderate carbohydrate restriction will usually speed up fat loss, but a very low carbohydrate diet is not the ultimate answer to permanent fat loss. At it's worst it is unhealthy and causes muscle loss. At best it is a temporary tool that should only be used for short periods for specific fat loss goals (such as preparing for a bodybuilding comp).

The flaw in the very low carbohydrate approach is the assumption that EVERYONE is carbohydrate sensitive. Research has estimated that only 30-30% of the population is carbohydrate sensitive and only a fraction of this 20=30 % is SERIOUSLY carbohydrate sensitive.

The best way to look at a very low carbohydrate/moderate to high fat/high protein diet is as THE LAST RESORT for those with EXTREME difficulty losing fat the conventional way.

'The bodybuilder's diet' is usually a high carbohydrate. low fat moderate protein (ratio 60-30-10). However, I have found that if losing fat and achieving it in a healthy way, WITHOUT losing muscle or energy, then a diet of 50-55% carbohydrates, 30% protein and 15-20% fat is a good starting point.

I find that my ratios are often more 30-40 % carbs, 40-60 % protein, and less than 20 % fat. I am still experimenting at what works best for me, I think I have cut out too many whole grains, and my carbs have been mainly veg (including potatoes).

hackskii

40/30/30 carbs/fats/proteins is the best in my opinion.
Evedence also proves this.
Have a book right in front of me and I have dieted this way myself.

That is righ 40% carbs and 30% fats work very well for controlling insulin.

You can lose all the weight you want without cardio.

You can have a high carb diet and have it calorie restricted and still not lose fat.
Why?
Because you wont control the storage hormone insulin.

Do you have to do cardio to lose weight?
Nope.
What about the fat guy 100 plus pounds overweight. Is cardio the answer? Nope.
This can result in injury.

Why is it that morbidly obese people are put on a low carb diet to lose weight as fast as possible for surgery?
Agin to lose the fat as fast as possible.

When you go to a low carb diet your body uses Free Fatty Acids for fuel and ketones.
Oh wait what was that?
FFA and ketones, also your fat stores.

Only 25% of the people can take in as many carbs as they want and not spike insulin.
What does this say for the other 75% of the people?
Oh man I guess that means me.
Yah, drop the carbs, control insulin and you will be healthier, happier and less fat.
I love this subject as I have studied this for 10 years and put into practice.

Keto diets are fine for fat loss. Proven to actually lower cholesterol.
Yes this is right, lower cholesterol. It actually hammers down triglycerides too due to the loss of fat stored from carbohydrates due to the responce from insulin.

Did you know that the fat you store is worse for you than the fat you take in?
Triglycerides worse than other fat?

30% fat in your diet is totally healthy as long as you are not high carb.

You can go high carb and be healthy, you can go high fat and be healthy, you can not go high fat and high carb and be healthy.
Why?
Due to the high triglycerides.
It is not even the fat but the fat stored from the overproduction of insulin.

Low carb diets are healthy and you can have alot of vegetables too with this.

Cups of broccoli contain very little carbs and you would be totally full before you reached anywhere near moderate carbs.
Is this healthy?
Sure it is.

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Scott


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Pscarb

Yes this is very true but we are talking about Low or Moderate carb intake not a general diet....

Why would you experience muscle loss when you lower Carbs? if you raise both protein and good fats you will not lose muscle this applies to the average trainer not just competitive bodybuilders.
if you are losing muscle when using low carbs or carb cycling then you have not thought about the protein and fats side of your diet.

As i have said before what is considered for one as low is considered to another as moderate or even high...and the flaw with what you have said above is that you assume HARDLY ANYONE is carb sensitive just because you can eat carbs does not mean everyone can.

Please tell me why this is the last resort i know plenty of people from bodybuilders to housewifes that use a low carb or carb cycling philosophy year round with great results most of these people find that they feel great and more healthy when they lower their carbs.