hackskii

The most efficient fuel in the body is not carbohydrates the most efficient source of fuel in the body is fat. It is a slower more efficient source of fuel.
Sufficient fuel?
Again this is fat.
Lets look at it like this way. You can store 400 grams of carbs in the muscle and 70 grams in the liver. That is 470 total carbs and that equates to just 1880 calories. Just one lb of fat equals 3500 calories almost double the stored carbohydrates.
Most people have enough fat to run over 20 marathons.

Atkins was a cardiologist and ran the numbers and found cholesterol levels dropped.
Very little muscle loss at all in fact I have articles which were clinical and show the opposite is true. Let’s just use the Eskimos as just one example of how false that above statement is.
Eskimos are very low carb and have zero problems in fact have lower cardio vascular problems, less depression and no cavities in their teeth.
This is just your opinion based on no proof other than what you believe, which is wrong by the way.

25% of people can eat carbs with not problems with insulin.
The other 75% of the people are sensitive to carbs at different levels.
25% of the United States is very sensitive.
Most people are insulin resistant.
Do some more research or your numbers are backwards.

Last resort?
Why is it so effective and safe?
Again there is no eveidence to support that it is unhealthy.
Look at the Paleolthic Diet and tell me that these people were not in fact healthier than we were now.
Again your argument is based on your opinion and not fact related in any way shape or form.


This diet with just 10% fat in it is unhealthy.
Low fat diets will yield low testosterone. Not my opinion but fact. Low fat diets are not good for you and just because you look good on stage does not make you healthy.

Still think your high carb low fat diet is healthy Tatyana?

"The low-fat high-carbohydrate diet, promulgated by the National Cholesterol Education Program, the National Institutes of Health, the American Heart Association...and the Department of Agriculture food pyramid...may well have played an unintended role in the current epidemics of obesity, lipid abnormalities, type II diabetes and metabolic syndromes. This diet can no longer be defended by appeal to the authority of prestigious medical organizations or by rejecting a growing medical literature that the much-maligned low-carbohydrate high-protein diet may have a salutary effect on the epidemics in question."
-- from the abstract of "The Diet-Health Hypothesis: A Critique" by Sylvan Lee Weinberg, MD, MACC in The Journal of the American College of Cardiologists, Vol, 33, pp. 731-33, 2004.


A diet high in carbohydrates can result in elevated levels of triglycerides and bad cholesterol, which can lead to heart attacks, strokes, diabetes and other serious problems. Very low-fat diets are associated with a rise in triglycerides and a decrease in "good" carbohydrates--a potentially deadly combination.

Pscarb

In a recent copy of MD they wrote about a sudy where male Test levels where recorded when on a low fat diet.
the conclusion was that those who severly restricted saturated fats had low Test scores...

this way of thinking is going back to the old days when Fat was a bad word i believe their is plenty of scientific evidence out there to prove that diets containing moderate-high fats and moderate to low carbs are indeed healthy...

Tatyana

http://www.welikeyoursite.com/low-ca...om-venuto.html

Found this link on low carb stupidity-low carb intelligence, thought it might be an interesting addition to this debate

hackskii

Low carb intelligence

Knowing that fat loss always did and always will boil down to calories in vs. calories out.

The above statement is actually not correct.
Those people that are sensitive to carbs and are insulin resistant this is a false statement.
If a person on high carb diet was insulin resistant and ate like this not knowing not only would it be dangerous to eat this way but that person would get fatter due to storage of fat from the very food he or she ate.
Not only that but end up type 2 diabetic in the process.

Low carb intelligence

Knowing that dieting is the worst way to lose fat and that exercise is the best way to lose fat (Burn The Fat, dont starve the fat).

Again this is seriously flawed statement.
It is opposite.
What about the people that cant exercise due to being too heavy?
Put a bullet in the head due to no hope?
This is bullcrap and the dude that wrote this has no knowledge of diets and the responce food has on the body.
Not only that but using that logic for only exercise the person would have to modify the diet when he or she lost the weight and came off the exercise program.

Not only that but I can prove this dude is wrong by myself losing bodyfat without cardio, granted I do lift weights.
Controlling insulin and using ketones and FFA's do in fact burn bodyfat and use fat stores for fuel. At a tune of several pounds a week.
Using the above logic burning 3 lbs of cardio would take 7 days of 2 hours a day cardio with some decent intensity.
I bet to some an injury would occur to get the same benefit if that was even possible.

What if you didnt lose as fast as you wanted up the exercise more?
What if you didnt have the time like most people dont?
Oh then you will be fat forever.

That is a false statement and I would love to debate this dude in person.
Like his abs in his pick mean anything.
Its all marketing, probably selling a book too.
Oops he sure is......haaaa haaaa
Crediblilty just went out the window on that one

Every competitive bodybuilder I know drops carbs and they do this for a reason.
They all exercise but when dieting they ALL drop the carbs.:crazy:

For the record, just look at the Eskimos and tell me that low carb diets are unhealthy.
If you say that Eskimos are unhealthy due to their low carb diets whom ever says this has no knowledge of food and the effects of food on the body.

Want to do a good little read on diets?
Read about the Paleolithic diet and see for yourself that there are foods that should not be eaten.

Using this article to validate your point is like using your diploma to validate your intelligence.
This guy is uninformed to make judgments on what is write and wrong in dieting.

Nice try but keto diets do work and do work without exercise and work well for the couch potato.

Tatyana

Are Low Carb Diets The Best Way To Lose Body Fat
by Tom Venuto
www.burnthefat.com

Tom Venuto www.burnthefat.com

These days, the carbohydrate issue seems to be the burning question on the minds of nearly everyone who is interested in getting leaner. Not a single week goes by that I don’t receive an e-mail with a question about the low carb/high protein diet. Last week I got this one:
It’s no wonder why there's such a buzz about these diets: everywhere you look lately there are low carb bars, low carb drinks, low carb meal replacements, low carb frozen dinners and so on. In the bookstores, The Atkins diet, Protein Power and Sugar-Busters have all been best sellers.
Even though there has been a huge resurgence in the interest in low carb/high protein diets, the low carb vs. high carb issue is still the subject of much controversy. For every "low carb guru" who says that low carbs are the ultimate diet, there is a "high carb guru" with the opposite opinion. This has caused a lot of people a lot of confusion.
So what’s the deal? Is the low carb/high protein diet the best way for bodybuilders to get ripped or just another fad? From a bodybuilding standpoint, the answer is an unequivocal yes; reducing carbohydrates really works! Most bodybuilders can't get that "ripped" look without some degree of carb restriction. Almost every bodybuilder or fitness competitor I’ve ever met uses some version of the low carb diet when getting ready for competition. The problem is, most people fail to take into account their goals and their unique body type, so they follow the advice of the latest "low-carb guru" and take the carb restriction too far. Zero carb or close to zero carb diets are in my opinion, TOTAL INSANITY!
The other extreme; the high carb, very low fat diet, isn’t the best approach for bodybuilders either. These diets (60-70% carb, 20-30% protein and 10% or less fat) were trendy with bodybuilders for a while, especially back in the 80’s and early 90’s (Remember Nathan Pritkin, Dean Ornish and Robert Haas?), but their popularity quickly faded. Those who tried it discovered that it wasn’t nearly as effective as the low to moderate carb, high protein diet.
Why does dropping your carbs help you lose more fat? There are several reasons, but to avoid getting into a complicated discussion of nutritional biochemistry, let’s just say that eating less carbs forces your body to burn fat for fuel instead of sugar. Reducing carbs and increasing protein accelerates fat loss by controlling your insulin and blood sugar more effectively. The high protein in these diets also speeds up your metabolism because of the "thermic effect" of protein food. It also helps eliminate water retention, giving you the "hard" and "dry" look you need onstage to win contests.

In my opinion, a moderate carb diet, with slight carb restriction (especially at night) is the most effective (and most "sane") way for bodybuilders to get ripped. For example, my contest diet is about 175 -200 grams of carbs with most of the carbs eaten early in the day. Every 4th day, I have a high carb day (350 grams) to replenish my depleted glycogen stores. By contrast, my off-season diet is 350 - 450 grams of carbs. With 175 - 200 grams of carbs, that is just enough fuel to provide the energy I needed to train hard and to prevent me from losing muscle.
Would dropping carbs even further to 30 or 50 grams a day (like many fad diets recommend) get you more ripped or get you ripped faster? Maybe. But the problem is, without carbs, you’ll have no energy to train hard. Sure, tuna fish and water will get you ripped alright, but if your workouts suffer because your diet is "killing you," you aren’t going to look or feel your best.
Another big problem caused by very low carb diets is loss of lean body mass. The lower you drop your carbs, the more likely you are to lose muscle along with the fat.
A third problem with very low carb diets is the rebound effect. The lower you drop your carbs, the faster you will rebound and gain the fat back when you add the carbs back in. I swear I’ve seen guys blow up 30-40 lbs in a matter of DAYS after their contest because they went on a carbohydrate and fat binge after a four-month zero carb diet. It wasn’t a pretty sight!
When I experimented with a very low carb diet, (about 40-70 grams a day), I lost huge amounts of lean body mass and looked very "flat" and "stringy." I was also one irritable, grouchy SOB. My friends nicknamed me "fog boy" because (sez them) I stumbled around in a fog-like daze. One friend who hadn't seen me since the previous year when I was a "bulked up" and carbed up 208 lbs, saw me 48 lbs lighter after the low carb diet (yes, 160 scrawny pounds) and he said, "holy sh** Tom, what happened to you? You're HALF the man you were last year!" That was the last time I ever tried an extremely low carb diet.

Nutrition is a highly individual issue. Some people can’t seem to lose weight unless they reduce their carbohydrate intake. Other people can eat bagels and pasta all day long and they have six pack abs. How many carbs you eat therefore, depends on your body type. Are you an endormorph or an ectomorph? Do you have a fast metabolism or a slow metabolism? Are you naturally lean or naturally heavy? Depending on your genetics, you might thrive on high carbs or you might need a high protein, low carb diet to get results. But beware: even if you think you are the carb sensitive, slow-metabolism type, the middle path (moderate carb restiction) is the most sensible way to go.
The only way to determine how many grams of carbs is right for YOU is to experiment until you find your "critical level." If you start dropping body fat rapidly at 200 grams a day, then why on earth would you subject yourself to the torture of going even lower and doing one of those 30-40 grams a day "ketogenic" diets? Why kill yourself?
Remember, there is no single diet that works for everyone. There are certain universal nutritional laws that apply to everyone, but be very careful of "gurus" who use the words "always" and "never" or who make sweeping statements like "carbohydrates make you fat."
If you want to get ripped, you should also pick the type of carbs you eat carefully - it’s not just the quantity, it’s the quality. In addition to moderating total daily carb intake, I also recommend getting off ALL processed carbs including bread, crackers, pretzels, pasta, bagels and switching only to natural, unprocessed carbs like vegetables, oatmeal, yams, rice, potatoes, etc. That single change will go a long way in helping you get leaner (and healthier too!)
The bottom line is that it’s not correct to say, "carbs are fattening," but there IS some truth to the assertion that a low carb diet will get you leaner compared to a high carb diet – you just have to approach it in a sensible and individualized way. As in most areas of your life, going to the extreme with your diet will usually do you more harm than good.

Tatyana

Ok the full article!



There is an epidemic of “low carb stupidity” running rampant among millions of people throughout the world today – and fast food restaurants, food product manufacturers, supplement companies, and weight loss programs are capitalizing on it in a big way in 2004!
The low carb diet is not inherently stupid, however. It can be quite beneficial within certain parameters and under the right circumstances. The problem is that many practitioners are uninformed, misinformed, or simply lack the common sense and intuitive bodily wisdom to utilize the low carb approach intelligently.
Many low-carbers don’t even know why they are on a low carb diet, they’re just following the followers (Not intelligent!) Doing what everyone else is doing is always one of the surest, straightest routes to arrive at mediocrity! If you want to be a success, your chances are far greater if you look at what the masses are doing and do the exact opposite!
Fortunately, there is such a thing as “low carb intelligence.” Hopefully, by reading my brief rant this month, you will increase your carb IQ, and soon join the ranks of the extraordinarily fit, lean and healthy “carbo geniuses!”
Low carb stupidity #1
Selecting your beer or liquor carefully to make sure you have the brand with the fewest grams of carbs.
Low carb intelligence
Avoiding alcohol if you’re trying to lose body fat. Drinking only in moderation if you’re trying to maintain your weight and be healthy.
Low carb stupidity #2
Believing any of the following: Low carbs diets are the only way to lose fat, low carb diets are the best way to lose fat, no one should ever eat a high carb diet, high carbs always make you fat, starches and grains make everyone sick and unhealthy.
Low carb intelligence
Adjusting your approach according to your health status, your goals and your body type, not according to generalizations preached by dogmatic diet “gurus.”
Low carb stupidity #3
Going on the Atkins diet (or any other very low carb/ketogenic diet) with absolutely no idea why you’re doing it or how the diet works (going on it because “everybody” is doing it and because you see it advertised everywhere.)
Low carb intelligence
Studying the physiology and biochemistry of the low carb diet and completely understanding all the pros and cons. Then making an informed decision whether to restrict carbs based on your own personal goals, needs and heath status.
Low carb stupidity #4
Thinking that very low carb (ketogenic) dieting is a maintainable “lifestyle.”
Low carb intelligence
Understanding that reasonable (moderate) restriction of carbs can be a helpful short term strategy for fat loss, a good way to reach a peak, a legitimate method to control appetite, and an effective way for some people to control insulin. But also understanding that a balanced diet of natural foods is probably the most suitable of all the diets for health, lifelong maintenance and weight control.
Low carb stupidity #5
Believing calories don’t count if you just cut out your carbs (or not counting calories because it’s “too much work.”)
Low carb intelligence
Knowing that fat loss always did and always will boil down to calories in vs. calories out. Taking the time and effort to crunch your numbers (at least once), typing up your menu on a spreadsheet, keeping a diary, and/or using nutrition tracking software.
Low carb stupidity #6
Staying on a low carb diet that has stopped working (or never worked in the first place).
Low carb intelligence
Adjusting your diet according to your results; understanding that a common definition of insanity (and/or stupidity) is to continue to do the same things over and over again, while expecting a different result.
Low carb stupidity#7
Believing that you don’t need exercise because all you need to do is cut carbs.
Low carb intelligence
Knowing that dieting is the worst way to lose fat and that exercise is the best way to lose fat (Burn The Fat, don’t starve the fat).
Low carb stupidity #8
Using the argument; “There’s no such thing as an essential carbohydrate” as justification for low carb dieting.
Low carb intelligence
Realizing that textbook definitions of “essential” can be taken out of context to promote a fad diet and that just because there’s technically no “essential” carbohydrates (as there are essential amino acids and fatty acids) doesn’t mean carbohydrates aren’t “essential” in other respects.
Low carb stupidity #9
Using the argument, “You have to eat fat to lose fat” as justification for a high fat, low carb diet, without explaining it or putting it in context (exactly how much fat and what kind of fat?)
Low carb intelligence
Understanding the importance of essential and omega three fats (the good fats), but not taking any single nutritional principle to an extreme (such as, “If a little fat is good for you then a lot is even better.”)
Low carb stupidity #10
Saying, “All carbs are bad” or “All carbs are fattening.”
Low carb intelligence
Avoiding generalizations, and instead, having multiple distinctions about carbohydrates (and other foods) so you can make better choices. For example:
Low GI vs. high GI carbs
Simple vs. complex carbs
Starchy vs. fibrous carbs
Natural vs. refined carbs
High calorie density vs. low calorie density carbs
Low carb stupidity #11
Not clarifying your definition of low carbs.
Low carb intelligence
Realizing that there are “very low” carb diets, “low” carb diets, and “moderate” carb diets and that you cant lump them all together. (Some people consider The Zone Diet, at 40% of calories from carbs, a low carb diet, others consider 40% carbs quite high).
Low carb stupidity #12
Believing that carrots are fattening because they’re high on the glycemic index and because a popular fad diet book says so.
Low carb intelligence
Have we lost all vestiges of common sense? With an average carrot clocking in at 31 calories and 7.3 grams of carbs, do you really think that this orange-colored, nutrient-dense, low-calorie, all-natural, straight-out-of-the-ground root vegetable is going to make you fat? (if so, you are in "carbohydrate kindergarten.")
Low carb stupidity… Lucky #13
Eating lots of processed and packaged low carb foods (including those protein “candy bars”)… and thinking you’re “being good” and “following your diet.”
Low carb intelligence
Realizing that natural, unrefined foods are one of the keys to lifelong weight control and that anything man made and refined is NOT an ideal “diet” food – including the highly processed low carb foods that are all the rage this year. (Doesn’t this bandwagon reek of the late 80’s and early 90’s “no fat” craze, when all those ”fat free” foods were being passed off as healthy diet food, but were really highly processed and full of pure sugar?)
--End of Stupidities--
Forgive me for the obvious dashes of sarcasm, but sometimes I just can’t help myself and I end up going into rant mode… I think the last time this happened was in my newsletter #22 almost a year ago… that was the issue where I wrote about the ad for the candy bar that increases your bench press by 50 pounds? Yeah... I heard those bars are especially effective when you combine them with low carb potato chips (weren't those low fat potato chips a few years ago??? Oh nevermind... it's all soooo confusing!)
For information on a more balanced method of fat loss which is also individualized, all-natural and maintainable for life… and which teaches you a new, safer, more moderate and more effective “twist” to the old low carb diet, visit my fat loss website at www.burnthefat.com

Tatyana

Like his abs in his pick mean anything.
Its all marketing, probably selling a book too.
Oops he sure is......haaaa haaaa
Crediblilty just went out the window on that one

ANd the chap selling the Zone diet, the Atkins diet, the Paleolithic diet, or any diet book were not doing it to make money?

For the record, just look at the Eskimos and tell me that low carb diets are unhealthy.
If you say that Eskimos are unhealthy due to their low carb diets whom ever says this has no knowledge of food and the effects of food on the body.

The INNUIT people lived in an extreme environment and had to expend huge amounts of energy to survive. This hunter lifestyle is no longer applicable to today's modern lifestyle. These people have a different physiological adaptations to their environment, and today, are suffering to an even greater degree from obesity.

Using this article to validate your point is like using your diploma to validate your intelligence. What are you saying about higher education? I am not following this point.
This guy is uninformed to make judgments on what is writeright and wrong in dieting.

All research uses articles to prove points, to validate aspects of method.
What has this natural bodybuilder (therefore he does not use clenbuterol or any other pharmaceuticals) who repeatedly achieves 4% body fat uninformed about dieting? He has obviously achieved the desired result. I believe he is in his 40s as well. I will post his bio.

hackskii

and
This is my point, thank you for proving my very point. I could not have done a better job convincing you than you convincing yourself.
Now you are getting the picture.
All reduce carbs to get ripped.


See now we get to the meat of what I am trying to say. This guy is a competitive body builder. Many people using this low carb diet do not lift to the competitive levels as this guy nor has anywhere near the lean muscle mass to support his carb intake.
Even less carbs are used for someone who does not exercise or is very low in the volume or intensity or both.

Again even this guy admits that less grams will get you ripped. If you drop your carbs to 30 or under per day ketones and free fatty acids are used for fuel. The key here is fat, intake of fat in your diet and body fat are used for fuel.
Eating tuna fish and water is the most stupid idea I have ever heard as no fuel but protein is used for energy and you have a lot of muscle in the body for fuel and catabolism will occur. That is why a diet that is higher in fat and lower in carbs switches from glycogen and glucose to FFA and ketones.
Once the switch there is no drop in energy.
How do I know this?
I have done it, and I actually have more energy.

This guy did not go low enough in his carbs to tap into fat for fuel and the body never switched off the glucose switch. He was irritable due to low blood sugar. This does not happen in ketosis period.
Another problem he had was he lost lean tissue because he did not have enough fats. So his fuel for training was actually some glucose and muscle.
If he only added more fat (which he didnt) this would not have happened. Better yet drop the carbs even lower and upped the fat and the catabolism would have stopped.

Exactly remember I mentioned that just about 25% of the people can eat all the carbs they want?
Well the other 75% to varying degrees just cant eat carbs and get ripped.

Exactly my point.

He even suggests not eating ALL processed carbs including bread, crackers, pretzels, pasta, and bagels.
Didn’t I suggest this to you Tatyana?

Like I said, this is just what I was talking about.
The less you workout the less glucose you need.
When sitting on the couch you burn almost 100% fat.
So those that don’t exercise do very well on the keto diet and there are no health consequences this has been studied and verified.

I want to thank you for proving to yourself the point I was making.

For the record fat is the most efficient fuel the body has.
Protein whether taken or used is the least efficient.

hackskii

forgot this one.
He says it all here.
Haaaa haa

This dude even ripped off John bernardi on the timing of his carbs. I have read tons of this guys info and he is very impressive.
He is a writer for T-mag.

Tinytom

It is impossible to acheive 4% bodyfat because 5% of bodyfat is internal organ fat essential for survival.

Also I've seen pics of this guy on stage and no way is he close to 4%. His conditioning is not even close to some of the top amateur naturals in this country such as Rob Feesey, Dean Garrett, Ian stocks etc.

Sorry but I think his definition of ripped has a long way to go.

To be fair the guy is in top shape and what he says about a moderate carb lifestyle does make sense to me as I follow a similar intake of carb in the off season but then I'm training 5 times a week so this helps keep me lean. I don't lose bodyfat in the offseason I just stay at what I am and keep my calories just above maintenance to gain muscle.

If I want to lose weight I drop some carbs out because I want to reduce the amount of glycogen I have available for the body to use so it has to go to the fat stores sooner.

__________________
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Pscarb

Tatyana thanks for the link but like i have said many many times this is only the opinion of one person and to be honest he has some valid points.
But he is mainly talking about Keto diets the thread is concerning Low V Moderate carb intake....
I ask once again who decided what is low and what is moderate for each individual person.

this guys says pretty much the same as me in the way that we are all diffrent and should each adjust our carb intake to suit ourselves.