Training split - Page 2 - UK-Muscle Body Building Community

winger · 21-11-2003, 08:02 PM

Good hackskii
I like your posts.

T-man · 22-11-2003, 10:35 PM

Thanks, I am happy with it at the moment.

As for back I get an massive pump from doing the just pulldowns for width getting a real good streach and then really squeazing the contraction. Also really streaching them out between sets by pulling on an upright of one of the machines nearby.

I am not really to bothered about what is for width or thinkness at the moment as I am going for more mass with the heavy bent over rows and deadlifts. I used to do a lot of weighted chins and often do some chins at the end of my back work out but did not really count them as they are mearly to get a final pump and to try and reduce some of the pressure that my back has just taken with the deadlifts which leaves my lower back burning.

As for protein I weigh 215 bls so at 1.5 per pound that is 322.5g I aim for 400g as I am bulking at the moment but it is not that every day, a lot is from milk and powders along with a few steaks and chikens here and there and I drink over a gallon of water daily but thanks anyway.

robin_3_16 · 22-11-2003, 11:13 PM

t man, i like you get alot of my protein from milk and powders, how many meals do u eat a day?
i am trying to bulk but finding it v.hard at the cost of eatin so much, so i am eating every 3 hours and trying to have as high protein intake as possible, not forgetting carbs

winger · 22-11-2003, 11:44 PM

T-man, I really like your routine. I like the aproach and the way you train. It does sound like you are on your way to getting bigger and stronger. Just keep up the water cause that much protein does need to be flushed out of the body.

**hackskii** · 23-11-2003, 10:48 PM

Cycling protein is good too, I will see if I can find that article by Bill Phillips on this.
This article is not as good as Bill's but just read the link and see foryourselves that too much protein is not good and should be cycled to be most effective.
http://www.t-mag.com/html/10maxim.html

another:
http://www.nwspine.com/Lib-ProteinCycling.htm

T-man · 24-11-2003, 12:56 AM

To answer robins question, I find it very difficult to eat as much as I need to gain weight. My diet is very plain and I don't like a lot of foods. A normal days eating would be;

8:30 Oatmeal with rasins and protein shake (don't like eggs)
11:00 2 Large wholemeal rolls with 100g low fat cheese in each
+ 1/2 serving of my weight gainer shake
13:30 2 large chicken breasts + bowl of wholegrain rice
16:30 2 large chicken breasts + bowl of wholegrain rice
17:30 pre workout shake
19:00 post workout shake
20:00 steak + bowl of wholegrain rice
22:00 1 chicken breast + 1/2 bowl of wholegrain rice
24:00 steak by itself
Protein shake to take to bed and drink during night

It is not the same every day but pretty much just chicken, steak and rice. With the odd double whopper from buger king.

winger · 24-11-2003, 02:55 AM

Well I heard that you can only matabalise 35 grams of protein per meal. If you divided your chicken breasts up a little you might get a better bang for your buck. Meal two is kinda carby but that is ok cause it is still morning so to speak. I kinda dont like the weight gainer proteins cause they are all sugar. Also you need all the colors for vegetables. Green, yellow.red. Just for the vitamin aspect. I know you want to gain weight but you will gain, just be patient. Damn you should be writing these posts not me. You seem to have a good grasp on the training, and diet aspect. During the winter months just get a little more sleep than during the summer. What are your stats? With this kind of diet and training I think you probably look pretty good. It is the guys that cant gain weight that have the upper hand on body building. They feed the muscles and gain weight. The heavy guys that have to diet and try to add muscle dont seem to look as muscular. How much muscle are you going to gain if you are cutting. Enough said. Good job T-man.

T-man · 24-11-2003, 10:53 PM

Yeah winger I have read a lot of different articles about how much protein your body can use in one sitting. Some say just 20g others 30, 35, 40 etc. but this makes it difficult to explain how a 300lb + pro gets his protein for the day sometimes 600g +.
I like what one book said and that was that in one sitting it was half your bodyweight in kg into g (i.e. weight 100 kg and eat 50g a serving) and it said that post workout you could double it to 100g.

I eat two chiken breasts at a time to fill me up and because I buy whole cooked chikens from my local supermarket hot. Its fast and the same price as buying two breasts raw.

I know I need to eat veg and try to in my post workout meal for their antioxidant properties as well but I have always hated them since childhod, but I take plenty of vitimins and mineral supplements.

Also my weight gainer is ok (three stage carb mix with plenty of complex carbs and the only fat are mct's) and like I said I am bulking at the moment. I probably won't start cutting till about april, but I am not letting myself get to fat.

winger · 25-11-2003, 01:00 AM

Got ya. I really dont like veggies eather, but I eat them. This is kinda new thinking but if you can bring down your bodies acid content, then you will be healthier. That is done by green veggies. Also, any oil that is liquid at room temperature is good for you. Those are omega 3 and omega 6 oils. Stick with the fish oils. The will actually clean the arteries and you will be less apt to die of a heart attack. They also say fish once a week will reduce heart attacks by 50%. That is impressive. Dont forget fats supress your body from spiking insulin. If your insulin levels are high then you will store fat. Low insulin levels and your body uses the fat for energy. Dont forget 1 fat gram is 9 calories. A carb or protein gram is 4 calories. If you ate the right amount of fat you could bump up your overall calories and be healthier.

BSF James · 01-12-2003, 07:24 PM

Demon (and any other beginners)

- Firstly for beginners I wouldn't recommend training any more than 3 times a week and once for each bodypart. As a beginner you're in an advantagous position because virtually no matter what routine you do within reason you'll grow. Just the new stimulus of regular weight training will make you grow to some extent. Best to make use of this whilst you can. Then when you start to hit plateaus as you progress you can up the volume, frequency and intensity of your workout. Like with anything, you need to build your way up. If you go straight into training like Ronnie Coleman, then when your gains start to slow you dont have any fresh weapons to bring out to blast you through those sticking points. Remember - progressive muscular overload - the only way to make continuous gain.

I'd recommend this split:

mon: chest and biceps
wed: back and triceps
fri: legs and shoulders

This pairs a large muscle group with a small one every time. When you train two large groups together, one almost always suffers.

T Man

- Thats a cracking diet. A bit of green stuff (i.e. veggies or salad) would make it even better. If you really cant stomach the greens, I'd recommend that you make sure you at least take some kind of multivitamin.

winger · 01-12-2003, 07:59 PM

Nice post sientbob as usual. I like your split routine. You only have to train once a week each body part, but the body parts are overlaped and still get hit indirectly. That is a good thing. No need to beat a body part into submission.

BSF James · 01-12-2003, 08:10 PM

That is one benefit winger. The other is that biceps are still relatively fresh and unused after training chest and the same is true of triceps after back. This means you can train them with greater intensity than if the split were chest with triceps and back with biceps. Occasionally I do it that way round though, as a shock measure to pre-fatigue the smaller muscle group.

Another thing I like to do is train forearms after back. I struggle to get much out of training forearms, but if I prefatigue them with my back training (think how much grip strength is used in rows , pulldowns and deadlifts) I can really hit them hard. I very rarely train forearms though - I think they get used enough in other exercises.

demon · 01-12-2003, 09:34 PM

Thanks for the reply silentbob.

I changed my training routine shortly after I posted this thread (a couple of months ago I think) but your routine makes a lot more sense.

The pairing of small and large muscle groups sounds like a very good idea.

winger · 02-12-2003, 12:39 AM

Yea i agree silentbob. The biggest joke I see in the gym is the guys with the straps. Why? If your grip is weak then you arent a complete athlete. If there is one commonality in strenth training, it is the grip.

**hackskii** · 02-12-2003, 01:42 AM

Well, silentbob and winger, these are nice posts and I liked their reading and agree totally. Passion and information, cool.. Keep up the good work.

22-11-2003, 10:35 PM	#17 (permalink)
T-man Gym Addict Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: England Posts: 253	Thanks, I am happy with it at the moment. As for back I get an massive pump from doing the just pulldowns for width getting a real good streach and then really squeazing the contraction. Also really streaching them out between sets by pulling on an upright of one of the machines nearby. I am not really to bothered about what is for width or thinkness at the moment as I am going for more mass with the heavy bent over rows and deadlifts. I used to do a lot of weighted chins and often do some chins at the end of my back work out but did not really count them as they are mearly to get a final pump and to try and reduce some of the pressure that my back has just taken with the deadlifts which leaves my lower back burning. As for protein I weigh 215 bls so at 1.5 per pound that is 322.5g I aim for 400g as I am bulking at the moment but it is not that every day, a lot is from milk and powders along with a few steaks and chikens here and there and I drink over a gallon of water daily but thanks anyway. __________________ You can't grow without pain!

22-11-2003, 11:13 PM	#18 (permalink)
robin_3_16 Getting HUGE! Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: england Posts: 1,461	t man, i like you get alot of my protein from milk and powders, how many meals do u eat a day? i am trying to bulk but finding it v.hard at the cost of eatin so much, so i am eating every 3 hours and trying to have as high protein intake as possible, not forgetting carbs __________________ Robin

23-11-2003, 10:48 PM	#20 (permalink)
hackskii Super Moderator Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Sunny Southern California U.S.A. Posts: 22,649	Cycling protein is good too, I will see if I can find that article by Bill Phillips on this. This article is not as good as Bill's but just read the link and see foryourselves that too much protein is not good and should be cycled to be most effective. http://www.t-mag.com/html/10maxim.html another: http://www.nwspine.com/Lib-ProteinCycling.htm __________________ "Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away." - George Carlin Scott To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. Last edited by hackskii; 23-11-2003 at 10:53 PM.

24-11-2003, 12:56 AM	#21 (permalink)
T-man Gym Addict Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: England Posts: 253	To answer robins question, I find it very difficult to eat as much as I need to gain weight. My diet is very plain and I don't like a lot of foods. A normal days eating would be; 8:30 Oatmeal with rasins and protein shake (don't like eggs) 11:00 2 Large wholemeal rolls with 100g low fat cheese in each + 1/2 serving of my weight gainer shake 13:30 2 large chicken breasts + bowl of wholegrain rice 16:30 2 large chicken breasts + bowl of wholegrain rice 17:30 pre workout shake 19:00 post workout shake 20:00 steak + bowl of wholegrain rice 22:00 1 chicken breast + 1/2 bowl of wholegrain rice 24:00 steak by itself Protein shake to take to bed and drink during night It is not the same every day but pretty much just chicken, steak and rice. With the odd double whopper from buger king. __________________ You can't grow without pain!

24-11-2003, 10:53 PM	#23 (permalink)
T-man Gym Addict Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: England Posts: 253	Yeah winger I have read a lot of different articles about how much protein your body can use in one sitting. Some say just 20g others 30, 35, 40 etc. but this makes it difficult to explain how a 300lb + pro gets his protein for the day sometimes 600g +. I like what one book said and that was that in one sitting it was half your bodyweight in kg into g (i.e. weight 100 kg and eat 50g a serving) and it said that post workout you could double it to 100g. I eat two chiken breasts at a time to fill me up and because I buy whole cooked chikens from my local supermarket hot. Its fast and the same price as buying two breasts raw. I know I need to eat veg and try to in my post workout meal for their antioxidant properties as well but I have always hated them since childhod, but I take plenty of vitimins and mineral supplements. Also my weight gainer is ok (three stage carb mix with plenty of complex carbs and the only fat are mct's) and like I said I am bulking at the moment. I probably won't start cutting till about april, but I am not letting myself get to fat. __________________ You can't grow without pain!

21-11-2003, 08:02 PM	#16 (permalink)
winger UK-Muscle Male Animal Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Southern California, USA Posts: 10,215 Blog Entries: 1	Good hackskii I like your posts.

22-11-2003, 11:44 PM	#19 (permalink)
winger UK-Muscle Male Animal Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Southern California, USA Posts: 10,215 Blog Entries: 1	T-man, I really like your routine. I like the aproach and the way you train. It does sound like you are on your way to getting bigger and stronger. Just keep up the water cause that much protein does need to be flushed out of the body.

24-11-2003, 02:55 AM	#22 (permalink)
winger UK-Muscle Male Animal Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Southern California, USA Posts: 10,215 Blog Entries: 1	Well I heard that you can only matabalise 35 grams of protein per meal. If you divided your chicken breasts up a little you might get a better bang for your buck. Meal two is kinda carby but that is ok cause it is still morning so to speak. I kinda dont like the weight gainer proteins cause they are all sugar. Also you need all the colors for vegetables. Green, yellow.red. Just for the vitamin aspect. I know you want to gain weight but you will gain, just be patient. Damn you should be writing these posts not me. You seem to have a good grasp on the training, and diet aspect. During the winter months just get a little more sleep than during the summer. What are your stats? With this kind of diet and training I think you probably look pretty good. It is the guys that cant gain weight that have the upper hand on body building. They feed the muscles and gain weight. The heavy guys that have to diet and try to add muscle dont seem to look as muscular. How much muscle are you going to gain if you are cutting. Enough said. Good job T-man.

25-11-2003, 01:00 AM	#24 (permalink)
winger UK-Muscle Male Animal Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Southern California, USA Posts: 10,215 Blog Entries: 1	Got ya. I really dont like veggies eather, but I eat them. This is kinda new thinking but if you can bring down your bodies acid content, then you will be healthier. That is done by green veggies. Also, any oil that is liquid at room temperature is good for you. Those are omega 3 and omega 6 oils. Stick with the fish oils. The will actually clean the arteries and you will be less apt to die of a heart attack. They also say fish once a week will reduce heart attacks by 50%. That is impressive. Dont forget fats supress your body from spiking insulin. If your insulin levels are high then you will store fat. Low insulin levels and your body uses the fat for energy. Dont forget 1 fat gram is 9 calories. A carb or protein gram is 4 calories. If you ate the right amount of fat you could bump up your overall calories and be healthier.

01-12-2003, 07:24 PM	#25 (permalink)
BSF James BodyShapers Fitness MD Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Telford Posts: 1,254	Demon (and any other beginners) - Firstly for beginners I wouldn't recommend training any more than 3 times a week and once for each bodypart. As a beginner you're in an advantagous position because virtually no matter what routine you do within reason you'll grow. Just the new stimulus of regular weight training will make you grow to some extent. Best to make use of this whilst you can. Then when you start to hit plateaus as you progress you can up the volume, frequency and intensity of your workout. Like with anything, you need to build your way up. If you go straight into training like Ronnie Coleman, then when your gains start to slow you dont have any fresh weapons to bring out to blast you through those sticking points. Remember - progressive muscular overload - the only way to make continuous gain. I'd recommend this split: mon: chest and biceps wed: back and triceps fri: legs and shoulders This pairs a large muscle group with a small one every time. When you train two large groups together, one almost always suffers. T Man - Thats a cracking diet. A bit of green stuff (i.e. veggies or salad) would make it even better. If you really cant stomach the greens, I'd recommend that you make sure you at least take some kind of multivitamin. __________________ To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. -Now with FREE shipping available on all UK mainland orders! 5% off your first order - use discount code ukm6. The #1 choice for To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. with rapid, reliable service. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. - research backed sports nutrition.

01-12-2003, 07:59 PM	#26 (permalink)
winger UK-Muscle Male Animal Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Southern California, USA Posts: 10,215 Blog Entries: 1	Nice post sientbob as usual. I like your split routine. You only have to train once a week each body part, but the body parts are overlaped and still get hit indirectly. That is a good thing. No need to beat a body part into submission.

01-12-2003, 08:10 PM	#27 (permalink)
BSF James BodyShapers Fitness MD Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Telford Posts: 1,254	That is one benefit winger. The other is that biceps are still relatively fresh and unused after training chest and the same is true of triceps after back. This means you can train them with greater intensity than if the split were chest with triceps and back with biceps. Occasionally I do it that way round though, as a shock measure to pre-fatigue the smaller muscle group. Another thing I like to do is train forearms after back. I struggle to get much out of training forearms, but if I prefatigue them with my back training (think how much grip strength is used in rows , pulldowns and deadlifts) I can really hit them hard. I very rarely train forearms though - I think they get used enough in other exercises. __________________ To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. -Now with FREE shipping available on all UK mainland orders! 5% off your first order - use discount code ukm6. The #1 choice for To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. with rapid, reliable service. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. - research backed sports nutrition.

01-12-2003, 09:34 PM	#28 (permalink)
demon Looking Freaky Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Northern Ireland Posts: 809	Thanks for the reply silentbob. I changed my training routine shortly after I posted this thread (a couple of months ago I think) but your routine makes a lot more sense. The pairing of small and large muscle groups sounds like a very good idea. __________________ DEMON "We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence then, is not an act, but a habit." - Aristotle

02-12-2003, 12:39 AM	#29 (permalink)
winger UK-Muscle Male Animal Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Southern California, USA Posts: 10,215 Blog Entries: 1	Yea i agree silentbob. The biggest joke I see in the gym is the guys with the straps. Why? If your grip is weak then you arent a complete athlete. If there is one commonality in strenth training, it is the grip.

02-12-2003, 01:42 AM	#30 (permalink)
hackskii Super Moderator Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Sunny Southern California U.S.A. Posts: 22,649	Well, silentbob and winger, these are nice posts and I liked their reading and agree totally. Passion and information, cool.. Keep up the good work. __________________ "Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away." - George Carlin Scott To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.