Training abs... (maintaining balance between abs and lower back) - UK-Muscle Body Building Community

Stevie M · 23-06-2008, 12:45 PM

Well I finally posted a journal and got some progress pics on here, along with my diet and training routine...

I got a lot of good advice back, and it brought up another discussion that I thought I'd throw out to all you experts out there!

The main comment was based around my routine - Day 1 of my routine is a bit of a big/long one (though I do enjoy the long workout) and the comment I got back was to re-arrange my routine and exclude exercises that focused purely on abs.

I've seen a few threads with people commenting that ab' training isn't really required (as other techiniques also build them through stability etc. - eg. Deadlifts), but I've also read somewhere that an imbalance between ab and back muscles can lead to back problems.

I'm hoping to get an understanding on how balance is maintained between these muscle groups!

So, this is going out to all the pro's/experienced guys out there...

Do you include ab excercises in your routine (sit-ups, leg raises etc. - specifically targetting them) or do you rely on exercises that work them through maintaining stability (dead lift, shoulder press etc.)?

Greekgoddess · 23-06-2008, 01:56 PM

just reading how many people have back problems on this site on the injury section shows the need for balance between lower back and abs muscles...

Personally I like to train my abs each time I go to the gym on my four day split, and target each area of the abs, as well as lower and upper back. Obviously they get stronger with deadlifts, shoulderpressing, upright rowing etc as a side product of the movement. I also train them on the fifth night at kickboxing class.

Some people don't need to train them so often, but each to their own.

Geo · 23-06-2008, 02:07 PM

People always commented on my abs at my gym when i was dieting for my comps this year, they always asked the same question, how often do you train them, i said 1 every 2 weeks or there abouts. They were gob smacked, i told them that you ony get abs through cardio and diet, and no matter how hard you hit them you wont see them until you get rid of the excess fat around the mid section.

I do believe that doing lifts such as deads/Squats, compound movements brings the abs into play to work together to stablise your core, so in effect they get hit alot when doing these lifts.

A strong core means better lifts in the future.

You should try and diet down dude if you want your abs to come through,

Geo

Stevie M · 23-06-2008, 03:25 PM

Thanks for the info Geo,

To be honest, I'm not that worried about getting my abs down just yet - think I need to gain some 'clean' mass though (I do need to get my stomache down as I'm a podger - it just conflicts with wanting to get a lot bigger! LOL!)

It's definitely interesting me though, to see how many people actually train them!

Porky Pie · 23-06-2008, 03:46 PM

Train them like a powerlifter - three heavy sets at the end of each workout, using weight, low reps 6-8. I do kneeling pulley crunches, weighted side bends with a heavy dumbbell and hanging leg raises (no weight used on these, just going slowly).

Don't worry about all this nonsense about thickening your waist, you need a strong powerful mid section more than any of that aesthetic bullsh1t.

Mrdaveyk · 23-06-2008, 03:48 PM

aye mate i used to train abs every day until i came here and deadlifts gave me the best results ive seen

as for your 'long day' mate i was just suggesting moving the shoulders to a quiter day so you have more energy to lift more

i know if i had put shoulders on my chest day theres no way i could mil press what i normally do

that was just a suggestion though mate, if you find you can still lift your true potential then keep it as it is

Geo · 23-06-2008, 03:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stevie M

Thanks for the info Geo,

To be honest, I'm not that worried about getting my abs down just yet - think I need to gain some 'clean' mass though (I do need to get my stomache down as I'm a podger - it just conflicts with wanting to get a lot bigger! LOL!)

It's definitely interesting me though, to see how many people actually train them!

If you want to get your stomache down a bit, just do some light cardio say 40mins 3 x a week after your training sessions dude, should help along with a good clean diet. If you do decide to train abs, train them like any muscle, and give them good recovery time. id maybe go for 2 x a week, if i was to train them.

Geo

kaz28 · 23-06-2008, 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Geo

People always commented on my abs at my gym when i was dieting for my comps this year, they always asked the same question, how often do you train them, i said 1 every 2 weeks or there abouts. They were gob smacked, i told them that you ony get abs through cardio and diet, and no matter how hard you hit them you wont see them until you get rid of the excess fat around the mid section.

I do believe that doing lifts such as deads/Squats, compound movements brings the abs into play to work together to stablise your core, so in effect they get hit alot when doing these lifts.

A strong core means better lifts in the future.

You should try and diet down dude if you want your abs to come through,

Geo

Totally agree with having a strong core regardless of sport you compete in. I do the plank and side planks 3 times for 2 minutes after each session.

Porky Pie · 23-06-2008, 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Geo

If you want to get your stomoche down a bit, just do some light cardio say 40mins 3 x a week after your training sessions dude, should help along with a good clean diet. If you do decide to train abs, train them like any muscle, and give them good recovery time. id maybe go for 2 x a week, if i was to train them.

Geo

What is a stomoche? If I say it in a Scottish accent it sounds quite authentic, although I have no idea what it could be.

Geo · 23-06-2008, 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Porky Pie

What is a stomoche? If I say it in a Scottish accent it sounds quite authentic, although I have no idea what it could be.

ha ha, not even in scottish does that sound right, now edited...

My fault for trying to type like a Pro, i forget to spell sometimes.

Geo

23-06-2008, 12:45 PM	#1 (permalink)
Stevie M Newbie Trainer Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Barrow-in-Furness Posts: 31	Training abs... (maintaining balance between abs and lower back) Well I finally posted a journal and got some progress pics on here, along with my diet and training routine... I got a lot of good advice back, and it brought up another discussion that I thought I'd throw out to all you experts out there! The main comment was based around my routine - Day 1 of my routine is a bit of a big/long one (though I do enjoy the long workout) and the comment I got back was to re-arrange my routine and exclude exercises that focused purely on abs. I've seen a few threads with people commenting that ab' training isn't really required (as other techiniques also build them through stability etc. - eg. Deadlifts), but I've also read somewhere that an imbalance between ab and back muscles can lead to back problems. I'm hoping to get an understanding on how balance is maintained between these muscle groups! So, this is going out to all the pro's/experienced guys out there... Do you include ab excercises in your routine (sit-ups, leg raises etc. - specifically targetting them) or do you rely on exercises that work them through maintaining stability (dead lift, shoulder press etc.)?

23-06-2008, 01:56 PM	#2 (permalink)
Greekgoddess Mature Bodybuilder Join Date: May 2008 Location: Greece Posts: 1,164	Re: Training abs... (maintaining balance between abs and lower back) just reading how many people have back problems on this site on the injury section shows the need for balance between lower back and abs muscles... Personally I like to train my abs each time I go to the gym on my four day split, and target each area of the abs, as well as lower and upper back. Obviously they get stronger with deadlifts, shoulderpressing, upright rowing etc as a side product of the movement. I also train them on the fifth night at kickboxing class. Some people don't need to train them so often, but each to their own. __________________ Training like a maniac, eating like a bodybuilder, looking like a winner! To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

23-06-2008, 02:07 PM	#3 (permalink)
Geo Getting HUGE! Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Ayrshire, Scotland Posts: 1,097	Re: Training abs... (maintaining balance between abs and lower back) People always commented on my abs at my gym when i was dieting for my comps this year, they always asked the same question, how often do you train them, i said 1 every 2 weeks or there abouts. They were gob smacked, i told them that you ony get abs through cardio and diet, and no matter how hard you hit them you wont see them until you get rid of the excess fat around the mid section. I do believe that doing lifts such as deads/Squats, compound movements brings the abs into play to work together to stablise your core, so in effect they get hit alot when doing these lifts. A strong core means better lifts in the future. You should try and diet down dude if you want your abs to come through, Geo __________________ I Love My Work, It Pays for My Protein. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

23-06-2008, 03:25 PM	#4 (permalink)
Stevie M Newbie Trainer Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Barrow-in-Furness Posts: 31	Re: Training abs... (maintaining balance between abs and lower back) Thanks for the info Geo, To be honest, I'm not that worried about getting my abs down just yet - think I need to gain some 'clean' mass though (I do need to get my stomache down as I'm a podger - it just conflicts with wanting to get a lot bigger! LOL!) It's definitely interesting me though, to see how many people actually train them!

23-06-2008, 03:46 PM	#5 (permalink)
Porky Pie Communist Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Wherever I lay my sword Posts: 485	Re: Training abs... (maintaining balance between abs and lower back) Train them like a powerlifter - three heavy sets at the end of each workout, using weight, low reps 6-8. I do kneeling pulley crunches, weighted side bends with a heavy dumbbell and hanging leg raises (no weight used on these, just going slowly). Don't worry about all this nonsense about thickening your waist, you need a strong powerful mid section more than any of that aesthetic bullsh1t.

23-06-2008, 03:48 PM	#6 (permalink)
Mrdaveyk It's what you do on the outside that makes you Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Wales, Pembrokeshire, Pembroke Dock Posts: 1,788 Blog Entries: 1	Re: Training abs... (maintaining balance between abs and lower back) aye mate i used to train abs every day until i came here and deadlifts gave me the best results ive seen as for your 'long day' mate i was just suggesting moving the shoulders to a quiter day so you have more energy to lift more i know if i had put shoulders on my chest day theres no way i could mil press what i normally do that was just a suggestion though mate, if you find you can still lift your true potential then keep it as it is __________________ To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. ^^9 stone of bones?! Bulking up?! Take a read^^ To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

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