I need help - UK-Muscle Body Building Community

Pieboy · 15-05-2008, 12:55 PM

Hi Guys,

Relatively new to training. Have been going to the gym 3 times a week (Mon Wed Fri) I work on different muscle groups each time of course, and on Friday I do a mix of both. I work on Abs all the time too when at the gym and do a cardio session after each of the weights sessions. However my muscles still feel achey and everything by the time I go to the gym to do a workout again. Probably doesn't make much sesnse, but on Monday I worked on the Pecs and they still ache now quite bad. Is this a lack of protein or something? Currently use H&B Body Fortress Milk and Egg Protein, is this enough?

Any suggestions would be much appreciated to how I could recover quicker.

BabyYoYo · 15-05-2008, 12:56 PM

Glutamine is meant to aid in recovery, normally taken with meals and pre workout....

Maybe you're overtraining slightly...

What do you tend to do in the gym?

andyboro · 15-05-2008, 01:00 PM

I was gonna say... if not recovering is affecting your training then maybe a bit less volume might help - gotta remember its not neccesary to totally wipe yourself out in order to grow

took me a lot of years to realise that lol

**Robsta** · 15-05-2008, 01:02 PM

It's just doms mate....I like getting it, it lets me know i've had a good session...

Pieboy · 15-05-2008, 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BabyYoYo

Glutamine is meant to aid in recovery, normally taken with meals and pre workout....

Maybe you're overtraining slightly...

What do you tend to do in the gym?

Cheers for all the replies guys and girls!

BabyYoYo I do the following.

Monday,

3x12 reps Pec-Dec Machine, 3x12 reps Shoulder Press, 3x12 Chest Press, and 3x12 Tricep Extension (I think its called that)

Followed by 15 minutes X-Trainer

Then ab work usually 3 sets of 12 sit ups.

Wednesday,

3x12 Arm Curl, 3x12 Leg Press, 3x12 Leg Curl, 3x12 Seated Row.

Followed by 15 minutes on X-Trainer

Then ab work usually 3 sets of 12 sit ups.

Friday

3x12 Arm Curl, 3x12 Tricep Extension, 3x12 Lat pulldown.

Followed by 15 minutes of X-Trainer

Then ab work usually 3 sets of 12 sit ups.

That's the basic routine anyway. If people can give a few pointers, or mistakes I'm doing, I'm all ears.

Basic goal is to lose fat, I'm 23.7% bf

about 5 ft 8 and about 14 stone.

Really want to lose fat, and toned up more to get definition if possible.

Any ideas, am I over training?

Thanks for all the help

Pieboy · 15-05-2008, 02:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robsta

It's just doms mate....I like getting it, it lets me know i've had a good session...

I thought that too mate, but does it usually last for about 4 days?

dru0111 · 15-05-2008, 02:55 PM

How long have you been training? it will take a few weeks for your CNS to get in sync and start working more efficiently, your doms will start to set in quicker and last for less time. 4 days if perfectly normal ;)

wogihao · 15-05-2008, 03:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pieboy

Cheers for all the replies guys and girls!

BabyYoYo I do the following.

Monday,

3x12 reps Pec-Dec Machine, 3x12 reps Shoulder Press, 3x12 Chest Press, and 3x12 Tricep Extension (I think its called that)

Followed by 15 minutes X-Trainer

Then ab work usually 3 sets of 12 sit ups.

Wednesday,

3x12 Arm Curl, 3x12 Leg Press, 3x12 Leg Curl, 3x12 Seated Row.

Followed by 15 minutes on X-Trainer

Then ab work usually 3 sets of 12 sit ups.

Friday

3x12 Arm Curl, 3x12 Tricep Extension, 3x12 Lat pulldown.

Followed by 15 minutes of X-Trainer

Then ab work usually 3 sets of 12 sit ups.

That's the basic routine anyway. If people can give a few pointers, or mistakes I'm doing, I'm all ears.

Basic goal is to lose fat, I'm 23.7% bf

about 5 ft 8 and about 14 stone.

Really want to lose fat, and toned up more to get definition if possible.

Any ideas, am I over training?

Thanks for all the help

No but that routine is sub-optimal.

Heres what I would do..

Workout A:

Barbell box squat:
1 x 15 @ warmup
1 x 12 @ medium warmup
1 x 10 @ hard
1 x 8-10 @failure

Workout B:

Clean and Press:
1 x 8 @ warmup
1 x 8 @ medium warmup
1 x 6 @ hard
1 x 4-6 @ failure

Workout C:

Deadlifts:

1 x 8 @ warmup
1 x 8 @ medium warmup
1 x 8 @ hard
1 x 4-8 @ failure

Workout D:

Barbell Bench press:

1 x 15 @ warmup
1 x 10 @ medium warmup
1 x 8 @ hard
1 x 4-6 @ failure

So you do 3 days a week, so for example

Monday: Workout A
Wednesday: Workout B
Friday: Workout C
Monday: Workout D
Wednesday: Workout A

ect....

With regards to aches and pains

I think it was Geoff Capes that said..

no pain no gain, no gain no glory.

That routine is good for beginer as its just the essential exersises for growth. It alows for lots of rest time and your not doing isolation exersises that are not so important at the begining.

The bigest factor in you feeling full of beans and not tired will be your diet and rest during this time. if either of them is off you wont make good progress even on this abrivated beginers routine.

BabyYoYo · 16-05-2008, 08:49 AM

Pieman,

If your main goal is to lose bf% then the best thing for you would be to up the cardio and adjust your diet. Might be an idea if you post it up for people to critique.

I'd suggest trying to incorporate 30 mins cardio prior to breakfast and 30 mins after you've completed your weights session. I find it works wonders. Although to ensure the a.m cardio does not become catabolic I'd recommend taking some glutamine and a glass of orange juice (carbs) before heading out!

Do you do your resistance training in that order? If you do, you should probably think about rearranging your routine so that all compound exercises are done first (i.e bench press) and all isolation exercises are done afterwards. (i.e tricep extension)

Do you operate a split pattern? I couldn't work it out.

Although what Wogi said is good, I'd get bored with that.... Why not try to incorporate your routine into a 2 day split like push-pull days for example. This would mean you are training only twice a week and may aid in your recovery.

Make sure whatever you do, you bring in DEADLIFTS & SQUATS into your routine. They're amazing!!!!

irwit · 16-05-2008, 09:31 AM

I tried a new routine on my calfs on monday and they are still noticablly suffering from doms today ( friday)

I normally get it worst when I do something new. Other week I switch from barbell to dumbell bench press and got brilliant doms. I see it as a good thing

Pieboy · 16-05-2008, 09:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BabyYoYo

Pieman,

If your main goal is to lose bf% then the best thing for you would be to up the cardio and adjust your diet. Might be an idea if you post it up for people to critique.

I'd suggest trying to incorporate 30 mins cardio prior to breakfast and 30 mins after you've completed your weights session. I find it works wonders. Although to ensure the a.m cardio does not become catabolic I'd recommend taking some glutamine and a glass of orange juice (carbs) before heading out!

Do you do your resistance training in that order? If you do, you should probably think about rearranging your routine so that all compound exercises are done first (i.e bench press) and all isolation exercises are done afterwards. (i.e tricep extension)

Do you operate a split pattern? I couldn't work it out.

Although what Wogi said is good, I'd get bored with that.... Why not try to incorporate your routine into a 2 day split like push-pull days for example. This would mean you are training only twice a week and may aid in your recovery.

Make sure whatever you do, you bring in DEADLIFTS & SQUATS into your routine. They're amazing!!!!

Hi BabyYoYo

I don't really have an order I do it in, I just use which ever machine is free. I will look into getting some Squats and Deadlifts added into the program. I don't quite underatand the push-pull training idea, I have an idea of what it involves, but I will read up on it today.

I think I do need to do more Cardio, I work out in the mornings, so currently do the 15 minutes before breakfast.

With regards to diet, I don't really have to strict of a diet, e.g i find it hard to eat 5-6 times daily due to working in the office and having limited facilities, really only have a microwave here.

I usually have something like

Breakfast
2 poaced egg on 2 brown toast, H&B Egg and Milk Protein on training days. Wellman vitamin tablet.

Lunch
Something like a Salmon in a wholemeal roll, or lean chicken or turkey in wholemeal roll.

Snacks,
Fruit, nuts.

Dinner,
Really whatever my parents cook for me as i'm still at home, but recently been cooking myself something like chicken breast, or Oriental Salmon with a jacket potato.

I drink about 5 cups of tea a day, and drink about 500ml of pure water.

I'm not a huge fan of fruit or veg, but do try to eat a piece of fruit a day.

This diet is probably rubbish isn't it? But is an improvement of my old one. Any suggestions would be much appreciate with terms to diet, I'm not really a fan of Rice and that stuff either which is probably a problem.

I have only been doing this for about 2 weeks. It isn't the pain which bugs me, its that I thought that you have to wait till it goes to train again. I have now found out its alright as long as you have a days break inbetween.

Cheers for the help again.

BabyYoYo · 16-05-2008, 10:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pieboy

Hi BabyYoYo

I don't really have an order I do it in, I just use which ever machine is free. I will look into getting some Squats and Deadlifts added into the program. I don't quite underatand the push-pull training idea, I have an idea of what it involves, but I will read up on it today. As I say, do all compound exercises first, and leave the isolation until the end. Compound movements stimulate more muscle fibres than isolation movements which primarily focus on one muscle group. You are likely to get results much faster with compund movements.

I think I do need to do more Cardio, I work out in the mornings, so currently do the 15 minutes before breakfast. Try and make this 30 mins. It will benefit you no end!

With regards to diet, I don't really have to strict of a diet, e.g i find it hard to eat 5-6 times daily due to working in the office and having limited facilities, really only have a microwave here. No excuse. I previously worked split shifts in a hotel, now I work in an office with only a microwave. Cook up things the night before to take with you the next day! It's all about organisation. Eating more frequently ensures your metabolism is kept steady and thus making it easier to shed lbs!

I usually have something like

Breakfast
2 poaced egg on 2 brown toast, H&B Egg and Milk Protein on training days. Wellman vitamin tablet.

Lunch
Something like a Salmon in a wholemeal roll, or lean chicken or turkey in wholemeal roll.

Snacks,
Fruit, nuts. Are you being honest???

Dinner,
Really whatever my parents cook for me as i'm still at home, but recently been cooking myself something like chicken breast, or Oriental Salmon with a jacket potato.

I drink about 5 cups of tea a day, and drink about 500ml of pure water. Much more water required, most would recommend 3-4 litres per day.... cut down on the tea!

I'm not a huge fan of fruit or veg, but do try to eat a piece of fruit a day. You'd be better off eating vegetables as opposed to fruit, less natural sugars = less carbs.

This diet is probably rubbish isn't it? But is an improvement of my old one. Any suggestions would be much appreciate with terms to diet, I'm not really a fan of Rice and that stuff either which is probably a problem.

I have only been doing this for about 2 weeks. It isn't the pain which bugs me, its that I thought that you have to wait till it goes to train again. I have now found out its alright as long as you have a days break inbetween.

Cheers for the help again.

See above in red, hope this helps.

If you're in pain and it lasts, wait until the pain is bearable until you train that particular body part again. Make sense. If there is pain, it signifies that the muscle has not healed from the previous exercise! It's at your discretion really, there are no set rules.

As for your diet, post up exactly what you eat, how much and at what times for an example day. If you're not sure check out some of the guy's journals in member pictures etc.

You might benefit from decreasing your carb intake slightly and upping your intake of (good) fats as well as the increase in cardio exercise (at 55-60% max)

K x

Pieboy · 16-05-2008, 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BabyYoYo

See above in red, hope this helps.

If you're in pain and it lasts, wait until the pain is bearable until you train that particular body part again. Make sense. If there is pain, it signifies that the muscle has not healed from the previous exercise! It's at your discretion really, there are no set rules.

As for your diet, post up exactly what you eat, how much and at what times for an example day. If you're not sure check out some of the guy's journals in member pictures etc.

You might benefit from decreasing your carb intake slightly and upping your intake of (good) fats as well as the increase in cardio exercise (at 55-60% max)

K x

Thanks BabyYoYo,

Will definately increase the water uptake, and yes I'm being 110% honest with snacks, I must have weird taste buds as I don't really like crisps and chocolate bars. Only real chocolate I have is chocolate milkshake. Will definately increase cardio to 30 minutes too. Really want to lose this belly.

With regards to diet I'll plot up what I had yesterday, as its about the same most days.

Morning
9:00
2 Poached egg on 2 brown toast. Wellman vitamin tablet.

12:30
4 small wholemeal rolls with 150g of trout (I meant to get salmon but got the wrong one, d'oh) and 150g of turkey breast. Chocolate fudge browney Frijj milkshake.

6:00
Protein Shake

8:00
Fresh salmon 290g with soy sauce.

And that was it for yesterday didn't eat too much.

Today so far

Morning
9:00
Two Poached egg on 2 brown toast, wellman tablet, Protein shake

1:00
4 small wholemeal rolls with Iceland Spicy chicken strips. 370g

And that's it so far. Need to get so water down me soon, tonight I'm hoping to pick up some fresh meat from the waitrose delhi and cook it up with possibly a Jacket Spud.

Probably doesn't sound like I'm eating enough? Or too much in one go possibly?

Thanks again for the help.

BabyYoYo · 16-05-2008, 02:07 PM

You do seem to eat quite a lot in the way of carbs- maybe try reducing that and upping the protein factor.

I base my diet on a 40/30/30 split

40% of my total calories per day go on protein
30% on carbohydrate
30% on Fats

If you work out your total calorie requirement using the link below, you can then work out how much of each macronutrient you need per meal. Obviously it is better to try and balance each meal so you are getting the same amount in each!

http://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/measureme...your-diet.html

In order to lose weight you need to be in a calorie deficit, so that the body can use some of the stored glycogen & fat as energy. The link tells you all about it!

Training wise focus on compound exercises that work big muscle groups as opposed to isolating small ones as this is likely to help you get in shape more quickly and split your training up to allow adequate rest time in between sessions. Example:

Day 1: Back, Biceps & Triceps
Day 2: Quads, Hamstrings & Calves
Day 3: Chest & Shoulders

OR

2 day Push/Pull split.

Happy reading!

BabyYoYo · 16-05-2008, 02:09 PM

Also meant to put in that you seriously need to eat some vegetables!!!! Very important.

Oh and drop the milkshake and fudge brownie. Save them for your cheat days. You'll enjoy them more too!

15-05-2008, 12:55 PM	#1 (permalink)
Pieboy Newbie Trainer Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 7	I need help Hi Guys, Relatively new to training. Have been going to the gym 3 times a week (Mon Wed Fri) I work on different muscle groups each time of course, and on Friday I do a mix of both. I work on Abs all the time too when at the gym and do a cardio session after each of the weights sessions. However my muscles still feel achey and everything by the time I go to the gym to do a workout again. Probably doesn't make much sesnse, but on Monday I worked on the Pecs and they still ache now quite bad. Is this a lack of protein or something? Currently use H&B Body Fortress Milk and Egg Protein, is this enough? Any suggestions would be much appreciated to how I could recover quicker.

15-05-2008, 12:56 PM	#2 (permalink)
BabyYoYo Miss deadlifter extraordinaire! Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Newquay Posts: 699	Re: I need help Glutamine is meant to aid in recovery, normally taken with meals and pre workout.... Maybe you're overtraining slightly... What do you tend to do in the gym? __________________ To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. My Personal Bests BB Squat 55kg BB Deadlift 50kg "You know it. You're one of the few girls who can match my capacity for savagery. Shame you've gone good/wrong innit."

15-05-2008, 01:00 PM	#3 (permalink)
andyboro Gym Addict Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Middlesbrough Posts: 258	Re: I need help I was gonna say... if not recovering is affecting your training then maybe a bit less volume might help - gotta remember its not neccesary to totally wipe yourself out in order to grow took me a lot of years to realise that lol

15-05-2008, 01:02 PM	#4 (permalink)
Robsta Moderator Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Bedford Posts: 4,820	Re: I need help It's just doms mate....I like getting it, it lets me know i've had a good session... __________________ Robsta

15-05-2008, 02:55 PM	#7 (permalink)
dru0111 198 NATURAL pounds Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Essex Posts: 333	Re: I need help How long have you been training? it will take a few weeks for your CNS to get in sync and start working more efficiently, your doms will start to set in quicker and last for less time. 4 days if perfectly normal ;)

16-05-2008, 08:49 AM	#9 (permalink)
BabyYoYo Miss deadlifter extraordinaire! Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Newquay Posts: 699	Re: I need help Pieman, If your main goal is to lose bf% then the best thing for you would be to up the cardio and adjust your diet. Might be an idea if you post it up for people to critique. I'd suggest trying to incorporate 30 mins cardio prior to breakfast and 30 mins after you've completed your weights session. I find it works wonders. Although to ensure the a.m cardio does not become catabolic I'd recommend taking some glutamine and a glass of orange juice (carbs) before heading out! Do you do your resistance training in that order? If you do, you should probably think about rearranging your routine so that all compound exercises are done first (i.e bench press) and all isolation exercises are done afterwards. (i.e tricep extension) Do you operate a split pattern? I couldn't work it out. Although what Wogi said is good, I'd get bored with that.... Why not try to incorporate your routine into a 2 day split like push-pull days for example. This would mean you are training only twice a week and may aid in your recovery. Make sure whatever you do, you bring in DEADLIFTS & SQUATS into your routine. They're amazing!!!! __________________ To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. My Personal Bests BB Squat 55kg BB Deadlift 50kg "You know it. You're one of the few girls who can match my capacity for savagery. Shame you've gone good/wrong innit."

16-05-2008, 09:31 AM	#10 (permalink)
irwit is realising, diet, traing, rest, supplements, 12 egg breakfasts are nothing without consistency Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: London Posts: 326	Re: I need help I tried a new routine on my calfs on monday and they are still noticablly suffering from doms today ( friday) I normally get it worst when I do something new. Other week I switch from barbell to dumbell bench press and got brilliant doms. I see it as a good thing

16-05-2008, 02:07 PM	#14 (permalink)
BabyYoYo Miss deadlifter extraordinaire! Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Newquay Posts: 699	Re: I need help You do seem to eat quite a lot in the way of carbs- maybe try reducing that and upping the protein factor. I base my diet on a 40/30/30 split 40% of my total calories per day go on protein 30% on carbohydrate 30% on Fats If you work out your total calorie requirement using the link below, you can then work out how much of each macronutrient you need per meal. Obviously it is better to try and balance each meal so you are getting the same amount in each! http://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/measureme...your-diet.html In order to lose weight you need to be in a calorie deficit, so that the body can use some of the stored glycogen & fat as energy. The link tells you all about it! Training wise focus on compound exercises that work big muscle groups as opposed to isolating small ones as this is likely to help you get in shape more quickly and split your training up to allow adequate rest time in between sessions. Example: Day 1: Back, Biceps & Triceps Day 2: Quads, Hamstrings & Calves Day 3: Chest & Shoulders OR 2 day Push/Pull split. Happy reading! __________________ To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. My Personal Bests BB Squat 55kg BB Deadlift 50kg "You know it. You're one of the few girls who can match my capacity for savagery. Shame you've gone good/wrong innit."

16-05-2008, 02:09 PM	#15 (permalink)
BabyYoYo Miss deadlifter extraordinaire! Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Newquay Posts: 699	Re: I need help Also meant to put in that you seriously need to eat some vegetables!!!! Very important. Oh and drop the milkshake and fudge brownie. Save them for your cheat days. You'll enjoy them more too! __________________ To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. My Personal Bests BB Squat 55kg BB Deadlift 50kg "You know it. You're one of the few girls who can match my capacity for savagery. Shame you've gone good/wrong innit."